Help I am confused!!! Is religion a conundrum?

[max1120]

I have done extensive research on almost every area of religion, theology, biblical history, archeology, and science trying to determine if any religion is grounded in fact and if so which parts are authentic and which are not so authentic. However, I have after years and years of research realized that I am going in circles. Who is right? Is anyone right?

The most logical way to answer the question is to use a triangle, put the most important questions at the top and the lesser down further after the first has been answered. For example:

1. Is there a god?
2. Is the god which exist one which is currently among those worshiped by modern man?
3. Which one? (of the larger groups)
A. Christianity
B. Judaism
C. Islam
D. Hinduism
E. Other Eastern Religions?
F. Other???
4. If Christian:
A. Protestant
1. Anglican
2. Methodist
3. Lutheran (Which Synod)
4. Baptist (southern baptist?)
5. Presbyterian
6. Congregational
7. Unitarian
8. Other (non-denominational)
B. Roman Catholic
C. Mormans (LDS)
D. Orthodox
1. Eastern Orthodox
2. Russian Orthodox
3. Serbian Orthodox
4. Greek Orthodox
5. If Judaism
A. Orthodox
1. Ultra-Orthodox
2. Hasidic
3. Heredi (Ultra-Orthodox)
B. Conservative
C. Reform
D. Reconstructionist

This is only a partial list and should give the reader some understanding of the many divisions involved in this decision.

To complicate this step further many of the groups on the list believe that most of the the other groups on the list are dammed for hell fire. However, there are notable exceptions. For example, most Jews I have discussed this matter with believe that a "righteous gentile" shall inherit an equal share of the world to come as the most pious Jew. Mormans (LDS) generally believe the same. From what I have read, the LDS believe that there are three (3) heavens and that all three are better than the life we have today an that even the worst sinners will have a place in at least the lowest heaven. Hell only exist therefor for Satan and the angles who rebelled against god before the creation, and perhaps a few humans (possibly Judas Iscariot). Aside form these two examples, it appears everyone is literally damming everyone else. For example, Southern Baptist seem to believe that Jews and Mormans are headed straight for hell and possibly Catholics too. Southern Baptist are divided into two camps; Animism and Calvinism and these two groups both believe in a literal fire and brimstone hell. The difference lies in who goes there and why. The Calvinist believe that god for some strange and ultra secret reason decided before the beginning of time that only a very very few should be chosen to go to heaven and everyone else should be dammed. They defend this with a rather strange (to me) view of "gods glory". Then there are those who believe in "free will", which sounds good, until you realize that god can now take away your salvation for various transgressions. Both say the other is teaching "hearsay".

One could argue that the dilemma could be solved by reviewing the text of the bible. Well, this appears far more easily said than done. For example, depending upon how one interprets various passages both Animism and Calvinism could be supported. Also, to complicate matters further, there appears to be numerous textual, factual, scientific, and possible interpretative errors in the books we call bible. There is no clear agreement upon who wrote them, when they were authored, or why one book was included in the final cannon (council of Constantinople 393 AD.) and other were excluded. Some say god "protected" the books and chose the ones that were included and excluded. This could be the case or it could be (more likely) circular reasoning which is impossible to prove or disprove and can never be used to establish acceptable proofs in logic. To make matters even worse, there are conflicting text among the oldest copies of books that were included in the cannon. For example, the book of Mark. In the oldest copy of Mark that we have, the book ends with Mark 16:8 and the last 12 verses are not included. Most scholars agree that the last twelves verses were added much much later.

How can one have "faith" when there appears to be so much missing and conflicting information. Could god (any god) really expect an intelligent being to make sense of all of this and make the correct choice? Does a correct choice even exist?

After all of my research I am able to see why so many of my colleagues are agnostic, atheist, or nominally religious.

If god does exist, it is important for one to be certain of which side he or she chooses. If god does not exist that this too needs to be known. I want to know the truth and to be genuine in what I say that I believe (or do not believe).

If any of you share my questions or if you have answers or suggestions please feel free to post whatever you like. I will be checking back frequently.

 

[sinning machine]

Is this what you are saying ?

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 2 Timothy 3:7

I notice you spell God with a lower case (g) and it is quiet clear from your post you have not a clue what the scriptures speak, prehaps you should humble yourself, study His Gospel yourself and ask (G)od to reveal His truth to you.

 

[Street Knight]

God exists! He tells us that he does, I see it in nature, in science, in almost everything. I feel it. I feel better inside when I am closer to Him and the farther that I am away, I feel an internal "angst"
He is the Christian God.
For me the answer is Anglican. Because after much searching and study, I decided that this is the faith community that is closest to what I believe to be true. I also believe that there is not a "One size fits all". Personally, I discovered that I am not comfortable with, and do not feel filled or ministered to in a church that is not liturgical. However, I have friends that believe and feel the opposite.
A couple of the things that I really like about being Anglican:
1) Creedal The Nicene Creed is wonderful summary of what I believe and What I believe must be believed.
2) Scripture, Tradition, and Reason You are encouraged to read, think, examine about most things.
The truth for me is that most of what denominations differ and argue about is unknown, unknowable, and largely irrelevant. i.e. Did God create Heaven and Earth? Yes! How exactly did he do this and what exact method did he use. Don't Know at this point. It's not in my job description, I won't be creating any Worlds in the near future. This knowledge is not required for salvation.
Believe the things that you must believe to be saved. Read Scripture and Pray for guidance. Test Christian denominations against your beliefs. Good luck and God bless.

 

[Albion]

Is this what you are saying ?

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 2 Timothy 3:7

I notice you spell God with a lower case (g) and it is quiet clear from your post you have not a clue what the scriptures speak, prehaps you should humble yourself, study His Gospel yourself and ask (G)od to reveal His truth to you.

I feel that way, too. For a person who claims years of "extensive research," the common misspellings of words like Morman (sic), hearsay (sic), and cannon (sic) seem tell-tale. These are technical, specific terms, not words in general use. And I tend to think, as you do, that the post shows a rather superficial understanding of a lot of what was referred to.

 

[seeingeyes]

If god does exist, it is important for one to be certain of which side he or she chooses. If god does not exist that this too needs to be known.

Why is this important?

 

[bugkiller]

I have done extensive research on almost every area of religion, theology, biblical history, archeology, and science trying to determine if any religion is grounded in fact and if so which parts are authentic and which are not so authentic. However, I have after years and years of research realized that I am going in circles. Who is right? Is anyone right?

The most logical way to answer the question is to use a triangle, put the most important questions at the top and the lesser down further after the first has been answered. For example:

1. Is there a god?
2. Is the god which exist one which is currently among those worshiped by modern man?
3. Which one? (of the larger groups)
A. Christianity
B. Judaism
C. Islam
D. Hinduism
E. Other Eastern Religions?
F. Other???
4. If Christian:
A. Protestant
1. Anglican
2. Methodist
3. Lutheran (Which Synod)
4. Baptist (southern baptist?)
5. Presbyterian
6. Congregational
7. Unitarian
8. Other (non-denominational)
B. Roman Catholic
C. Mormans (LDS)
D. Orthodox
1. Eastern Orthodox
2. Russian Orthodox
3. Serbian Orthodox
4. Greek Orthodox
5. If Judaism
A. Orthodox
1. Ultra-Orthodox
2. Hasidic
3. Heredi (Ultra-Orthodox)
B. Conservative
C. Reform
D. Reconstructionist

This is only a partial list and should give the reader some understanding of the many divisions involved in this decision.

To complicate this step further many of the groups on the list believe that most of the the other groups on the list are dammed for hell fire. However, there are notable exceptions. For example, most Jews I have discussed this matter with believe that a "righteous gentile" shall inherit an equal share of the world to come as the most pious Jew. Mormans (LDS) generally believe the same. From what I have read, the LDS believe that there are three (3) heavens and that all three are better than the life we have today an that even the worst sinners will have a place in at least the lowest heaven. Hell only exist therefor for Satan and the angles who rebelled against god before the creation, and perhaps a few humans (possibly Judas Iscariot). Aside form these two examples, it appears everyone is literally damming everyone else. For example, Southern Baptist seem to believe that Jews and Mormans are headed straight for hell and possibly Catholics too. Southern Baptist are divided into two camps; Animism and Calvinism and these two groups both believe in a literal fire and brimstone hell. The difference lies in who goes there and why. The Calvinist believe that god for some strange and ultra secret reason decided before the beginning of time that only a very very few should be chosen to go to heaven and everyone else should be dammed. They defend this with a rather strange (to me) view of "gods glory". Then there are those who believe in "free will", which sounds good, until you realize that god can now take away your salvation for various transgressions. Both say the other is teaching "hearsay".

One could argue that the dilemma could be solved by reviewing the text of the bible. Well, this appears far more easily said than done. For example, depending upon how one interprets various passages both Animism and Calvinism could be supported. Also, to complicate matters further, there appears to be numerous textual, factual, scientific, and possible interpretative errors in the books we call bible. There is no clear agreement upon who wrote them, when they were authored, or why one book was included in the final cannon (council of Constantinople 393 AD.) and other were excluded. Some say god "protected" the books and chose the ones that were included and excluded. This could be the case or it could be (more likely) circular reasoning which is impossible to prove or disprove and can never be used to establish acceptable proofs in logic. To make matters even worse, there are conflicting text among the oldest copies of books that were included in the cannon. For example, the book of Mark. In the oldest copy of Mark that we have, the book ends with Mark 16:8 and the last 12 verses are not included. Most scholars agree that the last twelves verses were added much much later.

How can one have "faith" when there appears to be so much missing and conflicting information. Could god (any god) really expect an intelligent being to make sense of all of this and make the correct choice? Does a correct choice even exist?

After all of my research I am able to see why so many of my colleagues are agnostic, atheist, or nominally religious.

If god does exist, it is important for one to be certain of which side he or she chooses. If god does not exist that this too needs to be known. I want to know the truth and to be genuine in what I say that I believe (or do not believe).

If any of you share my questions or if you have answers or suggestions please feel free to post whatever you like. I will be checking back frequently.

My suggestion is that you read the entire Bible and believe what it says. There are lots of very small details (key verses) that unlock the Scripture. Some you will not be able to see unless God shows you. God may use someone to show you, so do not expect a magical moment.

And really the first thing you should do is stop asking religion questions. I did not say stop asking religious questions. My intention is to direct your attention to God and not man.

bugkiller

 

[ChristianLife08]

I have done extensive research on almost every area of religion, theology, biblical history, archeology, and science trying to determine if any religion is grounded in fact and if so which parts are authentic and which are not so authentic. However, I have after years and years of research realized that I am going in circles. Who is right? Is anyone right?

The most logical way to answer the question is to use a triangle, put the most important questions at the top and the lesser down further after the first has been answered. For example:

1. Is there a god?
2. Is the god which exist one which is currently among those worshiped by modern man?
3. Which one? (of the larger groups)
A. Christianity
B. Judaism
C. Islam
D. Hinduism
E. Other Eastern Religions?
F. Other???
4. If Christian:
A. Protestant
1. Anglican
2. Methodist
3. Lutheran (Which Synod)
4. Baptist (southern baptist?)
5. Presbyterian
6. Congregational
7. Unitarian
8. Other (non-denominational)
B. Roman Catholic
C. Mormans (LDS)
D. Orthodox
1. Eastern Orthodox
2. Russian Orthodox
3. Serbian Orthodox
4. Greek Orthodox
5. If Judaism
A. Orthodox
1. Ultra-Orthodox
2. Hasidic
3. Heredi (Ultra-Orthodox)
B. Conservative
C. Reform
D. Reconstructionist

This is only a partial list and should give the reader some understanding of the many divisions involved in this decision.

To complicate this step further many of the groups on the list believe that most of the the other groups on the list are dammed for hell fire. However, there are notable exceptions. For example, most Jews I have discussed this matter with believe that a "righteous gentile" shall inherit an equal share of the world to come as the most pious Jew. Mormans (LDS) generally believe the same. From what I have read, the LDS believe that there are three (3) heavens and that all three are better than the life we have today an that even the worst sinners will have a place in at least the lowest heaven. Hell only exist therefor for Satan and the angles who rebelled against god before the creation, and perhaps a few humans (possibly Judas Iscariot). Aside form these two examples, it appears everyone is literally damming everyone else. For example, Southern Baptist seem to believe that Jews and Mormans are headed straight for hell and possibly Catholics too. Southern Baptist are divided into two camps; Animism and Calvinism and these two groups both believe in a literal fire and brimstone hell. The difference lies in who goes there and why. The Calvinist believe that god for some strange and ultra secret reason decided before the beginning of time that only a very very few should be chosen to go to heaven and everyone else should be dammed. They defend this with a rather strange (to me) view of "gods glory". Then there are those who believe in "free will", which sounds good, until you realize that god can now take away your salvation for various transgressions. Both say the other is teaching "hearsay".

One could argue that the dilemma could be solved by reviewing the text of the bible. Well, this appears far more easily said than done. For example, depending upon how one interprets various passages both Animism and Calvinism could be supported. Also, to complicate matters further, there appears to be numerous textual, factual, scientific, and possible interpretative errors in the books we call bible. There is no clear agreement upon who wrote them, when they were authored, or why one book was included in the final cannon (council of Constantinople 393 AD.) and other were excluded. Some say god "protected" the books and chose the ones that were included and excluded. This could be the case or it could be (more likely) circular reasoning which is impossible to prove or disprove and can never be used to establish acceptable proofs in logic. To make matters even worse, there are conflicting text among the oldest copies of books that were included in the cannon. For example, the book of Mark. In the oldest copy of Mark that we have, the book ends with Mark 16:8 and the last 12 verses are not included. Most scholars agree that the last twelves verses were added much much later.

How can one have "faith" when there appears to be so much missing and conflicting information. Could god (any god) really expect an intelligent being to make sense of all of this and make the correct choice? Does a correct choice even exist?

After all of my research I am able to see why so many of my colleagues are agnostic, atheist, or nominally religious.

If god does exist, it is important for one to be certain of which side he or she chooses. If god does not exist that this too needs to be known. I want to know the truth and to be genuine in what I say that I believe (or do not believe).

If any of you share my questions or if you have answers or suggestions please feel free to post whatever you like. I will be checking back frequently.

All important and legitimate concerns. Seeing your post, it would take multiple meetings to go through your concerns with you. Perhaps if you wish we can take it easy through private messages. Either way, I wish to say this simply. We all as humans have four questions. They are on Origin, meaning, morality and destiny. And my friend, Christ Jesus and His word, the Bible, are the only things that fully satisfies those questions my friend and truly TRANSFORMS a person, not change, transform.

 

[max1120]

Why is this important?

The point is important because if god does not exist, what the bible may say or does not say is therefore irrelavent. However, if a god does exist than worshiping the wrong god or following the wrong religious tradition might hold ominous consequences. Of course, such consquences only exist if god exist. Therefore, the first question is the apex of the triangle and all other questions arise as a result of its answer.

 

[max1120]

Is this what you are saying ?

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 2 Timothy 3:7

I notice you spell God with a lower case (g) and it is quiet clear from your post you have not a clue what the scriptures speak, prehaps you should humble yourself, study His Gospel yourself and ask (G)od to reveal His truth to you.

Its not that I have no knowlege of what it says, it makes conflicting statements. Furthermore, as I pointed out in my post, much of it appears to be difficult to interpet. Many passages appear in conflict with others. Errors abound and the possibility of human mishandling or worse yet, corruption (changes) appear possible. This does not even start to explain all the various historical and scientific conflicts.

 

[max1120]

I feel that way, too. For a person who claims years of "extensive research," the common misspellings of words like Morman (sic), hearsay (sic), and cannon (sic) seem tell-tale. These are technical, specific terms, not words in general use. And I tend to think, as you do, that the post shows a rather superficial understanding of a lot of what was referred to.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. Although you may enjoy picking out the mispellings, (I recognize that they were indeed mispelled) let me assure you I have indeed conducted a great deal of research and that I indeed do possess more than a "superfical understanding"of this topic. The only thing "tele-tale" is that I am a horrible in spelling and that I should wear my glasses more when typing. However, this in no way should be interpeted as a lacking in my understanding of what I am refering too. If you have something constructive to add, I would enjoy hearing from you.

 

[seeingeyes]

The point is important because if god does not exist, what the bible may say or does not say is therefore irrelavent. However, if a god does exist than worshiping the wrong god or following the wrong religious tradition might hold ominous consequences. Of course, such consquences only exist if god exist. Therefore, the first question is the apex of the triangle and all other questions arise as a result of its answer.

That seems to be a sensible way to go about it (begin at the beginning, right?), but the trouble is that you are never going to prove 'god' and you are never going to prove 'not-god'. Far smarter people than you or I have been trying to do so for millenia. (Unsuccessfully, in my humble opinion.)

The same is true for proving 'christianity' or 'not-christianity', 'baptist' or 'not-baptist', 'rastafarianism' or 'not-rastafarianism'.

What you'll find in the teachings of Jesus is quite different than a man proving that he is right. He doesn't pontificate on the unknowable and then patch together some rules on top to keep everyone in line. Instead, he pulls truth out of everyday experience and builds from there up to his Father in heaven.

It's a perspective work considering.

 

[max1120]

Is this what you are saying ?

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 2 Timothy 3:7

I notice you spell God with a lower case (g) and it is quiet clear from your post you have not a clue what the scriptures speak, prehaps you should humble yourself, study His Gospel yourself and ask (G)od to reveal His truth to you.

The reason for my use of the lower case (g) is because I am referring to "god" in the generic case, thus, any and all god/gods/godesses...ect. As you may gather from my posting, I am adressing not only the Judeo-Christian tradition but all religious traditions. It was not ment as an afront.

 

[max1120]

That seems to be a sensible way to go about it (begin at the beginning, right?), but the trouble is that you are never going to prove 'god' and you are never going to prove 'not-god'. Far smarter people than you or I have been trying to do so for millenia. (Unsuccessfully, in my humble opinion.)

The same is true for proving 'christianity' or 'not-christianity', 'baptist' or 'not-baptist', 'rastafarianism' or 'not-rastafarianism'.

What you'll find in the teachings of Jesus is quite different than a man proving that he is right. He doesn't pontificate on the unknowable and then patch together some rules on top to keep everyone in line. Instead, he pulls truth out of everyday experience and builds from there up to his Father in heaven.

It's a perspective work considering.

Yes, quite the task I have set out! I agree with you, has been pondered by many of the great minds. Even Sigmund Frued wrote on the subject of religion (Moses and Monotheism). It is daunting to say the least, but it the question of all questions. Unfortunately, it may well be as you said, unknowable.

 

[seeingeyes]

Yes, quite the task I have set out! I agree with you, has been pondered by many of the great minds. Even Sigmund Frued wrote on the subject of religion (Moses and Monotheism). It is daunting to say the least, but it the question of all questions. Unfortunately, it may well be as you said, unknowable.

Now hold up, sir. I didn't say that it was 'unknowable'. I said it was 'unprovable', which is quite a different thing.

Does a mother love her baby? Of course. Can you prove it? Of course not.

Wisdom is quite a different beast from knowledge. Both are useful, but wisdom carries on where knowledge trails off into question marks.

 

[miamited]

Hi max,

Wow, tough work, huh? I imagine that you are a pretty smart person and I applaud you for all the work that you've put in to this effort. You asked for advice and so I'll give you mine because I think you're going about this the wrong way.

I have been a born again believer now for about 17 years and I will gladly share how God has proved himself to me and maybe it will help you. First of all, it's all about the heart. God says that He will be found by those who diligently seek Him. For me, the 'proof' that you may be searching for came through the prophecies of the Scriptures. A fellowship of believers that I was attending when I was 40 was doing a series on the prophecies of the Scriptures. But before I get into that, let me give you a short background of my life to that point.

I had been raised going to 'church' pretty much every week. My maternal grandfather was a pastor all of his life, but never lived in close proximity and so he was only able to have any influence in my life a couple of days of the year when we'd visit for holidays and such. I don't believe that either of my parents were born again, but doing 'church' was just something that my mother had learned as a child living with her parents and carried that tradition though to her family.

Consequently, since there was no real nourished root of truth in my life, I became pretty much exactly like you. I'd heard all this noise about a god and how His Son supposedly died for my sins and if asked would even agree that it must be true. I did the summer 'church' camp thing and was barely involved in the youth group, etc. etc. When I speak of the 'nourished root of truth', I'm talking about any real godly teaching as a child. My family was one of those that went to church on Sunday and lived like hell the rest of the week. As far as I know no one ever opened or read the bible. I really can't even remember one in my house, but I'm sure that on some shelf somewhere there must have been one. But there was no nourishing of my spirit with the truth of God other than that 15 minute message in the Sunday worship service. I've since learned that what God expects of godly parents is that they train their children in exactly the same way that He asked the Israelites to. Write His words on their doorposts, bind them to their foreheads, talk about them when they rise up and when they lie down. In other words, be actively and earnestly teaching your children about Him in the home, in their day to day life. Going to worship on Sunday isn't the way to train up your child in the way that he should go. However, I digress.

So, consequently my faith also was very, very weak, if it existed at all, by the time I reached my early years of adulthood and I probably lived a life much like yours now. Doubting, questions, arguing in some sort of learned way huge theological issues, etc. etc. And, of course, living a life of pure degradation and sin against the truth of God.

So, now let's move to the age of 40. The pastor was teaching on the prophecies found in the Scriptures and for whatever reason it began to make clear sense to me and I began to get a real understanding that the fulfillment of these prophecies really must mean that there is one who knows the beginning from the end. They absolutely could not have come from the mind of men and reached fulfillment as they did.

I went home and got myself a bible and began to read some of these prophecies and figuring out how many years, some even centuries, that passed between the written prophecy and it's fulfillment and I found myself one evening on my knees crying out to God for mercy. Asking Him to forgive me and declaring to Him that I did now truly believe and understand what was at stake here.

Now, here's the part that I think might do you good. During this earnest and fervent praying I asked God straight up. "God give me a burning, unquenchable thirst to know you. To search for the truths that you have given me in your Scriptures." Praise God!! He did!! For nearly two years I couldn't put the word of God down. I was studying daily and reading and praying and seeking His face. I had been born again!

In my studies since, one of the 'facts' of the Scriptures over any other 'religion' that men practice to please themselves, for it certainly doesn't please God, is that what separates the wheat from the chaff are the prophecies of the Scriptures handed down to us through God's people, Israel. Our Creator chose a man by the name of Abram and began working through his descendants a very great plan to make himself known to us through the written word. To give any reasonably thinking man some 'proof' that these Scriptures stand apart from all the other religious writings of the world, He liberally sprinkled throughout them prophecy after prophecy that He then showed us how they were fulfilled as time inexorably marched forward.

Once my mind and heart decided to believe that these prophecies 'proved' what was the truth, the rest was relatively easy. I have since never looked back or desired that my life be one iota different than it is today and the Lord my God, my ever loving Father and Creator has blessed me beyond any measure that I could ever have hoped to imagine. He is a great God!!

If you are interested in a mentor or further guidance please feel free to PM me.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[max1120]

Hi max,

Wow, tough work, huh? I imagine that you are a pretty smart person and I applaud you for all the work that you've put in to this effort. You asked for advice and so I'll give you mine because I think you're going about this the wrong way.

I have been a born again believer now for about 17 years and I will gladly share how God has proved himself to me and maybe it will help you. First of all, it's all about the heart. God says that He will be found by those who diligently seek Him. For me, the 'proof' that you may be searching for came through the prophecies of the Scriptures. A fellowship of believers that I was attending when I was 40 was doing a series on the prophecies of the Scriptures. But before I get into that, let me give you a short background of my life to that point.

I had been raised going to 'church' pretty much every week. My maternal grandfather was a pastor all of his life, but never lived in close proximity and so he was only able to have any influence in my life a couple of days of the year when we'd visit for holidays and such. I don't believe that either of my parents were born again, but doing 'church' was just something that my mother had learned as a child living with her parents and carried that tradition though to her family.

Consequently, since there was no real nourished root of truth in my life, I became pretty much exactly like you. I'd heard all this noise about a god and how His Son supposedly died for my sins and if asked would even agree that it must be true. I did the summer 'church' camp thing and was barely involved in the youth group, etc. etc. When I speak of the 'nourished root of truth', I'm talking about any real godly teaching as a child. My family was one of those that went to church on Sunday and lived like hell the rest of the week. As far as I know no one ever opened or read the bible. I really can't even remember one in my house, but I'm sure that on some shelf somewhere there must have been one. But there was no nourishing of my spirit with the truth of God other than that 15 minute message in the Sunday worship service. I've since learned that what God expects of godly parents is that they train their children in exactly the same way that He asked the Israelites to. Write His words on their doorposts, bind them to their foreheads, talk about them when they rise up and when they lie down. In other words, be actively and earnestly teaching your children about Him in the home, in their day to day life. Going to worship on Sunday isn't the way to train up your child in the way that he should go. However, I digress.

So, consequently my faith also was very, very weak, if it existed at all, by the time I reached my early years of adulthood and I probably lived a life much like yours now. Doubting, questions, arguing in some sort of learned way huge theological issues, etc. etc. And, of course, living a life of pure degradation and sin against the truth of God.

So, now let's move to the age of 40. The pastor was teaching on the prophecies found in the Scriptures and for whatever reason it began to make clear sense to me and I began to get a real understanding that the fulfillment of these prophecies really must mean that there is one who knows the beginning from the end. They absolutely could not have come from the mind of men and reached fulfillment as they did.

I went home and got myself a bible and began to read some of these prophecies and figuring out how many years, some even centuries, that passed between the written prophecy and it's fulfillment and I found myself one evening on my knees crying out to God for mercy. Asking Him to forgive me and declaring to Him that I did now truly believe and understand what was at stake here.

Now, here's the part that I think might do you good. During this earnest and fervent praying I asked God straight up. "God give me a burning, unquenchable thirst to know you. To search for the truths that you have given me in your Scriptures." Praise God!! He did!! For nearly two years I couldn't put the word of God down. I was studying daily and reading and praying and seeking His face. I had been born again!

In my studies since, one of the 'facts' of the Scriptures over any other 'religion' that men practice to please themselves, for it certainly doesn't please God, is that what separates the wheat from the chaff are the prophecies of the Scriptures handed down to us through God's people, Israel. Our Creator chose a man by the name of Abram and began working through his descendants a very great plan to make himself known to us through the written word. To give any reasonably thinking man some 'proof' that these Scriptures stand apart from all the other religious writings of the world, He liberally sprinkled throughout them prophecy after prophecy that He then showed us how they were fulfilled as time inexorably marched forward.

Once my mind and heart decided to believe that these prophecies 'proved' what was the truth, the rest was relatively easy. I have since never looked back or desired that my life be one iota different than it is today and the Lord my God, my ever loving Father and Creator has blessed me beyond any measure that I could ever have hoped to imagine. He is a great God!!

If you are interested in a mentor or further guidance please feel free to PM me.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Ted, thank you for your kind response. I am glad for you that you found something which satisfied your need for undesrstanding. For me, it would take more than that which you have shared with me. I am not here to try and debate anyone, but much of what is presented as "phrophecy in the old testament appears difficult if not imposible to "prove", at least factually. For example, you mention Abraham, the biblical charactor "Abraham" exist no where in the exisisting historical record. In other words, there exixt at this time no independent (outside of the bible/Torah) any written account to prove the existance of Abraham. For that matter, the existance of Moses can not be established in the historical record. I am not saying they did not exist. The absence of proof disproves nothing, the question simply remains open "unproven" or "disputed".

Controversy aside, I do appreciate your kindness and I thank you for sharing your story with me and the other readers of this thread.

 

[max1120]

I would appreciate any information or advice that anyone out there may care to offer.

 

[ChristianLife08]

I would appreciate any information or advice that anyone out there may care to offer.

My friend. You've already acknowledged that you've done extensive research. Correct? So, what is it then you are looking for? Did you read my post on page 1?

 

[pshun2404]

To begin with there are some 15 to 20 philosophical arguments which indicate there must be a God, and zero, zilch, nada that indicate there cannot be a God...why? Hmmm? And what is strange is many of these philosophies were argued out by people who do not know the Biblical God (like Aristotle's first cause argument for one). Now more to the point...

You say fulfilled prophecy can be disputed but there are far too many confirmed examples to hold your position if objectively explored.

In addition the accusations of the critics regarding OT anachronisms have been demonstrated by archaeology to be meaningless prejudice and assumption based conclusions and simply not true.

The next problem arises because scores of people, places, and events once only spoken of in the Bible, and flatly denied or classified as mere myth and legend (and without evidence or support for the accusations), have been confirmed (over 2500 confirmations just from the OT).

So lets start there...what do you wish to explore first? But understand these will never cause you to believe (which Biblically is NOT mental assent but trusting in, relying on, and cleaving to something or someone...which speaks of tangibles not the ethereal or imaginative).

So pick one of these categories to begin...(there are more), your ideas are too general and would take too many pages and hours of discussion to address properly (not possible in a forum like this)...

In His name

Paul

 

[Gottservant]

You are out to summarize the faith, no one who summarizes the faith is aware of its mystery.