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Featured Hell's Population Clock

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by WebersHome, Jun 19, 2017.

  1. WebersHome

    WebersHome Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The ordeal that Christ endured on the cross was so brief that it looks like child's play in comparison to the misery of souls in hell. His suffering barely lasted six hours (Mark 15:25, Matt 27:46-50) not even one whole day. People in hell go day, after day, after day, after day, after day, infinitum.

    Q: But if Christ suffered only six hours, how can he possibly atone for people facing an eternity in hell?

    A: It wasn't his torture that atoned for humanity's sins; it was the loss of his life that did the trick. Christ didn't have to go to the flames himself in order to rescue people from flames; no, he only had to die in accordance with the law of sin and death.

    Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death

    Individual human lives are of such low value that the most that anybody could hope to die for is just one sin. In most cases; that leaves a pretty large balance to atone for. In contrast; the value of the life of God's son is such that his death can atone for an infinite number of everybody's sins.

    1Pet 1:18-20 . . For you know that God paid a ransom to save you from the empty life you inherited from your ancestors. And the ransom he paid was not mere gold or silver. He paid for you with the precious lifeblood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God.

    Peter called the blood of Christ two things: a ransom and precious, meaning it's like rare jewels and metals; very pricey. Nobody else's life is nearly as valuable as Christ's life. Peter would never call regular human life rare and pricey. Ordinary human lives are wholesale: they're cheap as the grass (Isa 40:6-7, 1Pet 1:24) just a dime a dozen and quite useless for redemption purposes.

    Christ's life is the only life God will accept for multiple sins: and the alternative is infinite punishment because no amount of limited punishment can ever equal the value of Christ's blood because not only is a life like Christ's rare, but his is the only one like it in existence. (cf. Rom 3:9-20, Heb 4:15, 1Pet 2:22, 1John 3:9)

    Serial sinners are up a creek with no paddle because they have but two lives to forfeit for sin-- the life they have now, and the one they'll have later at their resurrection; but unfortunately, one of those lives is ear-marked for Adam's sin so they can't use it to atone for any of their own sins. And when they're resurrected to stand trial at the Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15; that'll be their last life because according to Dan 12:2 and John 5:28-29 there's only one resurrection allotted per person. And since the Bible's ratio is one life per one sin, then serial sinners will come up short and never have sufficient lives to atone for a lifetime's accumulation of sins.

    The dungeons of hell can be compared to a debtor's prison.

    Matt 5:25-26 . .Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

    The reason that hell is a debtor's prison is because the only payment for one's sins that God will accept is death. Well; it's death for each sin. So if somebody has say, 200 sins to answer for, they'll only be able to pay for one because according to Dan 12:2 & John 5:28-29 there is but one resurrection allotted per person; not 200.

    If absolute justice could be satisfied with torture, then hell's inmates could look forward to a release date. But alas; such isn't to happen because the only "coinage" the Bible's God is in a position to accept in lieu of their own lives is His son's life.

    Bottom line: Christ's crucifixion is the final option. Those who refuse to take advantage of it, will cross over to the other side in poverty; with literally no way in hell to pay their debts to God; thus they'll be stuck there.

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  2. toLiJC

    toLiJC Senior Member

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    there is a need to work for overall salvation, the statistics itself doesn't resolve the problem

    1 Timothy 2:1-10 "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks(i.e. prayers, intercessions, pleadings and blessings), be made for all men(i.e. for the salvation and life's provision for all humans); For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty(also: in all goodness and earnestness). For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men(i.e. all humans/souls) to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth(i.e. and to become/be good/righteous). For there is one God, and one mediator(also: and one Lord) between God and men, the man(also: the (be)souled being) Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not; ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. I will therefore that men(i.e. that the male believers) pray every where, lifting up holy hands(i.e. (entirely) showing love/goodness toward others), without wrath(also: without hostility/aggression) and doubting(also: and dramatizations/intrigues/fuss/strife). In like manner also, that women(i.e. that the female believers) adorn themselves in modest apparel(i.e. in humility), with shamefacedness(i.e. with meekness) and sobriety(i.e. and sanity); not with broided hair(i.e. not with pride/arrogance), or gold(i.e. or vainglory), or pearls(i.e. or (inordinate) wisdom), or costly array(i.e. or (inordinate) dignity/grandeur/nobleness); But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works."

    Blessings
     
  3. Gabriel Anton

    Gabriel Anton Exitus Acta Probat Acta Non Verba Deus Vult 11:18

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  4. WebersHome

    WebersHome Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Human nature is a humanly impossible barrier to get past on one's quest for paradise.

    Jer 13:23 . . Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

    Rom 7:15-24 . . I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

    . . . I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do-- this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

    . . . So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am!

    Eph 2:2-4 . . All of us at one time gratified the cravings of our sinful nature; following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.

    POPULATION CLOCK UPDATE: 27 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 1,639,710 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since June 19, 2017.

    NOTE: The above figure is roughly equal to the current population of the US city of Philadelphia PA.

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  5. Gabriel Anton

    Gabriel Anton Exitus Acta Probat Acta Non Verba Deus Vult 11:18

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  6. WebersHome

    WebersHome Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Far from being immortal, the natural-born human soul is quite susceptible to termination.

    Matt 10:28 . . Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    The koiné Greek word for "destroy" in that passage is apollumi (ap-ol'-loo-mee) which is a bit ambiguous.

    Some construe apollumi to mean cessation of existence. But according to Isa 66:22-24 and Mark 9:47-48, bodies destroyed in hell won't cease to exist, but will be preserved as perpetual nourishment for a curious species of fire-proof worm. Seeing as how destroyed bodies will continue to exist, then there is a very high probability that destroyed souls will also continue to exist.

    In other words: apollumi not only means to ruin beyond repair, but also to kill; for example:

    Matt 2:13
    Matt 12:14
    Matt 26:52
    Matt 27:20
    Mark 9:22
    Lk 6:9
    Lk 11:51
    Lk 15:17
    Lk 17:27
    John 10:28
    John 18:14
    1Cor 10:9-10
    2Pet 3:6
    Jude 1:5

    Q: Are dead human souls sentient?

    A: Well; I've been with dead human bodies so I know for myself that dead human bodies are not sentient. But I have never been with a dead human soul so I have no personal experience to draw upon in that connection.

    However, human life consists of more than body and soul. According to Gen 2:7, 1Ths 5:23, Heb 4:12, Heb 12:23, and 1Pet 3:18-20; human life also consists of spirit; which is transferrable.

    For example, the rich man of Luke 16:19-31 is depicted with a tongue, with sight, and with his memories. Well; his physical tongue, eyes, and mind were left behind on earth when he died. But there he is with a tongue, with sight, and with his memories in the afterlife; and not only that, but in the afterlife he retained his identity; which says to me that when the rich man's physical body passed away, his spirit was transferred to some sort of afterlife body. The only clue I have as to the nature of the rich man's afterlife body is 1Pet 3:18-20 where deceased antediluvians are described as spirit beings.

    Apparently spirit beings cannot be destroyed by the fires of hell. I know that's true because the Devil is a spirit being, and according to Rev 20:10; he will be incarcerated in the reservoir of brimstone, not to die, but so suffer-- forever and ever. Quite a number of people are destined for that very same fate.

    Matt 25:41 . . He will also say to those on the left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

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  7. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Nowhere does Scripture refer to death as eternal or endless. In fact, death will be abolished (1 Cor.15:26), so it's temporary.

    The lake of fire is the second death. Second death is also death and, it too, is temporary, just as death is temporary and not eternal.

    Sinners who go to the lake of fire (second death) will be saved. In Revelation the gates to the holy city are never shut. God says He is making "all" new (21:5).

    and every creature that is in the heaven, and in the earth, and under the earth, and the things that are upon the sea, and the all things in them, heard I saying, 'To Him who is sitting upon the throne, and to the Lamb, is the blessing, and the honour, and the glory, and the might -- to the ages of the ages!' (Rev.5:13, YLT)

    In John's other writings in the NT it says:

    Jn.1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

    4:39 Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me everything I ever did.” 40 So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days. 41 And because of his words many more became believers.
    42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

    John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
    John 12:47 I do not judge anyone who hears my words and does not keep them, for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

    1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
    4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
    16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

    As for Mark 9:43-49, it says the fire is not quenched. It does not say anyone's sufferings are not quenched or have no end. It doesn't say they can't be saved in the fire or come out of the fire & be saved. It does not say the fire is not remedial, but that everyone will be salted with fire (v.49). A fire can be unquenchable (unextinguished, CLV)] but still go out on its own.

    "Let us see how the word "asbestos (unquenchable) was used by the Greeks. Strabo calls it the lamp in the Parthenon, and Plutarch calls the sacred fire of a temple "unquenchable," though they were extinguished long ago. Josephus, the Jewish Priest who saw the destruction of Jerusalem says that the fire on the altar of the temple at Jerusalem
    was "always unquenchable" abeston aei, yet he was there when the fire on the altar was forever extinguished. Eusibius, the church historian who lived in Constantine's day says that certain martyrs of Alexandria "were burned in unquenchable fire." The fire was put out within an hour! Homer speaks of "unquenchable laughter" asbestos gelos, (Iliad, I: 599)"
    Bible Threatening Explained

    "Now, salt too, just as the divine fire, is associated with the eschatological test in Mark 9:49, a text I have already analysed, where this fire is presented as purifying and performing the disinfecting function of salt: “all will be salted by this fire,” if they have lost their salt in this life. That the context is eschatological and that this salting is, again, the action of the πῦρ αἰώνιον, the fire of the other world, is made clear by the immediately preceding mention of the fire of Gehenna that does not go out and the worm that does not die: these expressions derive from Isa 66:24 and are aimed at differentiating that fire and that worm from the fire and worms of this world, which can be put out and killed, respectively, by anyone. For the fire that cannot be extinguished and the worm that does not die represent punishment in the other world (κόλασις αἰώνιος)." (p.53)

    (Ilaria Ramelli, The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis: A Critical Assessment from the NewTestament to Eriugena (Brill, 2013. 890 pp.

    Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
     
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  8. Gabriel Anton

    Gabriel Anton Exitus Acta Probat Acta Non Verba Deus Vult 11:18

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  9. WebersHome

    WebersHome Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The feral man of Mark 5:1-13 and Luke 8:26-33 was possessed by a community of evil spirits who labeled themselves Legion.

    Webster's defines a legion as the principal unit of the Roman army comprising 3,000 to 6,000 foot soldiers with cavalry. Legion is a pretty good example of how spirits take up no room in the physical world; nor do they crowd each other. All 3,000-6,000 of those spirits managed to fit inside the bodily cargo area of just that one man.

    Just exactly how big demons are can't be known for certain. They could be no bigger than a moth; or even as large as the Jolly Green Giant-- but the point is, spirits take up no room in the physical world.

    According to 1Pet 3:18-20, there are people confined in an afterlife prison as spirits. Well, if anything, Legion tells me that the prison need not be a void because as spirits, people can be housed in solid rock seeing as how spirits don't need space, they just need a place.

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  10. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "The use of "apollumi" is interesting; it's the same word Jesus uses to describe the people that he came to find and save. The same verb is used in the parable of the lost coin in Luke 15:8-10, which describes a woman who has "apollumi" a silver coin. After "losing" the coin, she "seeks diligently" until she finds it. After she finds it, she then "rejoices" with her friends. In the parable, the lost coin represents a sinner, while the woman represents God. The woman finding her coin is akin to a sinner repenting (God gets back something that is very valuable to him)."

    Apollumi is also used of the "lost" prodigal son who is later found (Luke 15).

    Concerning destruction by God, we see in 1 Corinthians that one is delivered by God's power over to Satan for destruction. For what purpose? That he may be saved:

    1 Cor. 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
    1 Cor. 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men. (Psa. 90:3)

    Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.” (Jn.2:19)

    Those verses speak of destruction as being temporary or for a positive purpose leading to the salvation of the one destroyed.

    Judgement is a good thing:

    "My soul yearns for you in the night; in the morning my spirit longs for you. When your judgments come upon the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness." (Isa.26:9)

    The Lord is acquainted with the rescue of the devout out of trial, yet is keeping the unjust for chastening in the day of judging. (2 Pet.2:9)

    51 And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, 52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. 53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. 54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? 55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. 56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. (Luke 9)

    The same author who wrote Mt.10:28 penned earlier in the same book:

    Mt.1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
    Mt.2:6b ...my people Israel.

    https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
     
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  11. Gabriel Anton

    Gabriel Anton Exitus Acta Probat Acta Non Verba Deus Vult 11:18

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  12. WebersHome

    WebersHome Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Q: Do you not know it is the kindness of God that leads men to repentance rather than threats of justice? (Rom 2:4)

    A: It's the kindness of God that moves Him to give His creatures advance notice of the potential horror in store for them in the afterlife.

    When I was working as a professional welder for the US Army Corps of Engineers, we had weekly and monthly safety meetings wherein we were shown some grisly photographs of real-life industrial accidents involving burns, chain saws, punctured eyes, explosions, falls, crane collapses, suffocation, crushing, and the like. Let me tell you something: those safety meetings got our attention, and really made a sharp distinction between the fool and the wise.

    Prv 22:3 . . A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.

    The kindness of God has given the world fair and adequate notice of what to expect in the afterlife. Those who don't care about it one way or the other would be well advised to use what time they have remaining on earth to begin preparing themselves for the worst when they cross over to the other side.

    POPULATION CLOCK UPDATE: 30 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 1,821,900 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since June 19, 2017.

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  13. Gabriel Anton

    Gabriel Anton Exitus Acta Probat Acta Non Verba Deus Vult 11:18

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  14. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hebrews speaks of those who reject Christ as deserving a "sorer" punishment than death by Moses' law, i.e. stoning:

    10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

    Stoning to death is not a very sore or longlasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the Medieval hell fire believing Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.

    Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed the wicked would suffer endless torments in fire, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death. Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is a sadist for all eternity.

    https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
     
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  15. WebersHome

    WebersHome Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Q: According to the Christians; it is a "must" to believe the Gospel in order to be spared the wrath of God. How is that fair for peoples of the world who were never afforded an opportunity to hear it?

    A: There seems to be a number of Christians running around loose out there unaware of a gospel called the everlasting gospel; which reads like this:

    Rev 14:6-7 . . And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, announcing with a loud voice: Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

    The everlasting gospel is very simple. Pretty much all it says is:

    1• There is a supreme being.

    2• He deserves respect.

    3• There's a frightful reckoning looming on the horizon, and

    4• The cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --is the product of intelligent design.

    The everlasting gospel is interesting in that it isn't preached by humans; rather, it's preached by nature itself whose pulpit is everywhere, and speaks its message in every language known to man.

    Ps 19:1-4 . .The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.

    God allows no excuse for disbelieving the everlasting gospel.

    Rom 1:18-21 . .The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness; because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.

    It's humorous that when Europeans began invading the lands of North America's native peoples, they thought it prudent to convert them to Christianity. I really have to laugh at that because many of the peoples whom the Europeans labeled "wild men" were already believing the everlasting gospel centuries before the Europeans even dared to attempt crossing the Atlantic ocean.

    Can belief in the everlasting gospel save wild men? Of course it can or why would the angel of Rev 14:6-7 bother to fly around the world heralding it? I'll tell you one thing: there is far more hope for a pre-Columbus Iroquois than there is for a space-age atheist familiar with the book of Genesis, and heard the gospel of Christ as per Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John and brushed it all off as musty old myths and fantasy underserving of their attention

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  16. WebersHome

    WebersHome Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy mandates the death penalty for certain sins; e.g. murder, rape, adultery, physically attacking one's parents, kidnapping, cursing one's parents, harboring an animal that has killed someone, sleeping with a step mother, bestiality, perjury, LGBT, blasphemy, failure to observe the Sabbath, sorcery, etc.

    However, the very most that the covenant can impose upon violators is just one death sentence; and that's a problem.

    Supposing someone commits six acts of adultery. The covenant demands the death penalty for each one of those six acts. Well, the adulterer can be executed only one time which results in leaving a balance of five acts of adultery on the books for which justice goes unsatisfied.

    "sorer punishment" speaks of a way to satisfy justice for all six of those acts of adultery instead of just one; same goes for any and all other capital offenses that people might commit more than once.

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  17. Gabriel Anton

    Gabriel Anton Exitus Acta Probat Acta Non Verba Deus Vult 11:18

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    #115 - Bookmark.
     
  18. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night-to the ages of the ages. (Rev.20:10, YLT)

    And the Adversary who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons. (Rev.20:10, Concordant Literal New Testament, 1983)

    ...and the Adversary that had been deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [were] both the wild-beast and the false-prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night unto the ages of ages. (Rev.20:10, Rotherham Emphasized Bible, 1959

    American Standard Version footnote: *Gr. unto the ages of the ages.
    Revised Version, 1881 footnote: *Gr. unto the ages of the ages.

    Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment

    Does ages of the ages have an end? Christ's reign is "to the ages of the ages":

    And the seventh messenger did sound, and there came great voices in the heaven, saying, 'The kingdoms of the world did become those of our Lord and of His Christ, and he shall reign to the ages of the ages!' (Rev.11:15, YLT)

    But His reign is "until" He gives up the Kingdom to the Father:

    24 Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. 25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. (1 Corinthians 15)

    So Christ's reign "to the ages of the ages" is not "forever and ever". Therefore the phrase "to the ages of the ages" can be understood of a limited time period that comes to an end. So those in the lake of fire are not punished there "for ever and ever" (Rev.20:10).

    Also, "forever and ever" is nonsense. No time can be added to "forever".

    When Christ's reign ends (1 Cor.15 above), this will lead to God being "All in all" (v.28). IOW everyone will be saved, as all will be "in Christ" (v.22).

    Rev.21:5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making all new!”

    2 Cor.5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all is become new.

    Chapter Five

    Why Can't Aionas Ton Aionon Mean Eternity?

    "After all, not only Walvoord, Buis, and Inge, but all intelligent students acknowledge that olam and aiõn sometimes refer to limited duration. Here is my point: The supposed special reference or usage of a word is not the province of the translator but of the interpreter. Since these authors themselves plainly indicate that the usage of a word is a matter of interpretation, it follows (1) that it is not a matter of translation, and (2) that it is wrong for any translation effectually to decide that which must necessarily remain a matter of interpretation concerning these words in question. Therefore, olam and aiõn should never be translated by the thought of “endlessness,” but only by that of indefinite duration (as in the anglicized transliteration “eon” which appears in the Concordant Version)."

    Eon As Indefinte Duration, Part Three


    Berean Literal Bible
    And the devil, the one deceiving them, was cast into the lake of fire and of sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet also are; and they will be tormented day and night to the ages of the ages.
    Weymouth New Testament
    and the Devil, who had been leading them astray, was thrown into the Lake of fire and sulphur where the Wild Beast and the false Prophet were, and day and night they will suffer torture until the Ages of the Ages.

    Revelation 20:10 Interlinear: and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.

    If torment is "to" or "until" a certain age or ages, as per the versions above, then it ends before that age starts, so it is not for ever and ever.

    If torment is "into" (EIS) these future ages, as the word EIS is often translated as "into", that does not necessarily mean it lasts for the entire duration of those ages, even if those ages are endless.

    If torment is "into the ages of the ages", the torment makes entrance into those ages, not necessarily throughout the entire duration of them. Therefore the torment "into the ages of the ages" (e.g. Rev.20:10) is of an indefinite period of time.

    eis: to or into (indicating the point reached or entered, of place, time, fig. purpose, result)...Definition: into, in, unto, to, upon, towards, for, among."
    Strong's Greek: 1519. εἰς (eis) -- to or into (indicating the point reached or entered, of place, time, fig. purpose, result)


    From other Scriptures it is clear that the torment ends.
     
  19. WebersHome

    WebersHome Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's commonly believed that heaven is sort of like the peak of a high mountain. All around the periphery of the mountain are numerous roads all leading to the top. In other words: no matter which road you take; the destination is the same.

    But according to traditional Christianity's standard model; there aren't many roads to the top: there's only one; all the rest are dead ends, circles, loops, and cul-de-sacs. If the standard model is right; then an awful lot of people are facing a very unpleasant future. For example, according to my sources, there are approximately:

    50 thousand Scientologists
    15 million Mormons
    8.2 million Jehovah's Witnesses
    7.8 million Baha'i
    515.9 million Buddhists
    451.3 million Chinese Folk Religionists
    8.4 million Confucianists
    258.5 million Ethnic Religionists
    974.6 million Hindus
    5.6 million Jains
    1.7 billion Muslims
    14.1 million Jews
    64.2 million New Religionists2.8 million Shintoists
    24.9 million Sikhs
    14.2 million Spiritists
    8.7 million Taoists
    640 million Non Religious
    138.8 million Atheists

    The grand total of just those categories is 4,852,950,000

    If those figures are in the ball park, and if traditional Christianity's standard model is the truth; then at the least 66% of the earth's current population of 7.405 billion people are on a road to hell; and no doubt some of those are people we know: our friends, our relatives, and our associates.


    NOTE: Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are Christians, yes, but not in the traditional sense.

    Joseph Smith's movement is a cult; in other words: there's some Christianity in Mormonism, but Christianity comprises only a portion of Mormonism. The rest of it is extreme, to say the least.

    Neither do Jehovah's Witnesses qualify as Christians in the traditional sense. Charles Taze Russell's movement is a cult. There's some Christianity in the Watchtower Society's doctrines, but Christianity comprises only a portion of Russell's doctrines; and his slant on it is very peculiar.

    /
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
  20. Gabriel Anton

    Gabriel Anton Exitus Acta Probat Acta Non Verba Deus Vult 11:18

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    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
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