Hell

[Der Alte]

HADES in Greek Simply means UNSEEN REALM
it is the verb for SEE with a negating Alpha at the beginning
Unseen
The idea that Christ 'emptied' the 'good side' of Hades and brought the just OT Saints to heaven is sometimes called "The Harrowing of Hell"
Gehenna sometimes referred to a trash-dump outside town where refuse was burned
Tartarus was a Greek word for Torments
Apparently, in OT Times, Tartarus and Abraham's Bosom were both in HADES, divided by an impassable divide.
Sheol mainly meant grave, hole in the ground, and the Bible is ambiguous about dead people having no thoughts or not
Samuel was called up from Sheol and talked with King Saul, it was WRONG but REAL for him to be called up by Witch of Endor
The HELL you say!!

What a word might have meant at another time in a different country can be irrelevant. Words change over time. For example the English word "truck" to us it means a large vehicle for transporting large or heavy loads. Originally it meant vegetables over time it morphed until it came to mean the vehicle that truck/vegetables were carried in.

 

[PizzaAddict]

I glanced at the etymology of the term 'hell,' and noticed that it originally means 'to hide or cover.' Well, that's interesting since Sheol/Hades in Scripture means the same thing. It is in my understanding in the past that 'hell' in the King James Version conveyed the same meaning as 'Sheol,' so why do we equate it with 'Gehenna' that will arrive at the last day? How did we confuse the two things?

Hell is the abode of the dead in Old English, not the final destination of the wicked.

What are your thoughts on this?

Yea in KJV Hell is used like for everything , in fact "Hell" means just underworlds where was place for souls who were comforted and who wait for judgement , judgement comes at White Throne and then Lake of Fire is the place for punishment .

 

[D.A. Wright]

I disagree that the parable isn't a real scenario.

You certainly are at liberty to do so. Although I've never understood the urge to proclaim what amounts to barely a grunt.

 

[Knee V]

"Hell" is closely etymologically related to words such as "hole", "hill" and "hall", and it is no coincidence that they all have the same consonant scheme and that all four are nearly the exact same word.

The idea that links them together is burying the dead. The dead are buried in a hole the ground. The people's only access to the world under the ground is through a cave, which is often accessed through the side of a hill. The inside of a cave can appear to be a long, dark hall. Thus, it could be understood that when a person is buried in a hole, he goes through the halls in the hill and is in hell.

Hell is the English form of the common Germanic (not "Common Germanic") term for "the abode of the dead" or "the realm of the dead". Just as with the Greek word "Hades", there was mythology associated with that place, and a god to accompany it. However, both serve as the functional equivalent of Sheol.

Sheol/Hades/Hell is divided into two areas. One area contains the souls of the unrighteous and there is some sort of torment there. The other side contains (or rather *contained*) the souls of the righteous. "Abraham's Bosom" is not a place. Rather, it describes the fact that poor Lazarus was being held and comforted by the patriarch Abraham while they were in Sheol/Hades/Hell together, although not experiencing the torment that the rich man was experiencing.

I believe that with a little catechesis, the word "hell" ought to be used in every instance of "sheol" and "hades". Since Gehenna is/was a physical place, I would prefer to use the word "Gehenna" or "Valley of Hinnom" or "Hinnom Valley". Gehenna is a foreshadowing of the future Lake of Fire, and the word "hell" should certainly not be used to translate that word.

"Tarturus" could be rendered as either "Tarturus" or "prison", but definitely not "hell". I think the KJV renders is as "prison", iirc.

 

[Der Alte]

"Hell" is closely etymologically related to words such as "hole", "hill" and "hall", and it is no coincidence that they all have the same consonant scheme and that all four are nearly the exact same word.
The idea that links them together is burying the dead. The dead are buried in a hole the ground. The people's only access to the world under the ground is through a cave, which is often accessed through the side of a hill. The inside of a cave can appear to be a long, dark hall. Thus, it could be understood that when a person is buried in a hole, he goes through the halls in the hill and is in hell.
Hell is the English form of the common Germanic (not "Common Germanic") term for "the abode of the dead" or "the realm of the dead". Just as with the Greek word "Hades", there was mythology associated with that place, and a god to accompany it. However, both serve as the functional equivalent of Sheol.
Sheol/Hades/Hell is divided into two areas. One area contains the souls of the unrighteous and there is some sort of torment there. The other side contains (or rather *contained*) the souls of the righteous. "Abraham's Bosom" is not a place. Rather, it describes the fact that poor Lazarus was being held and comforted by the patriarch Abraham while they were in Sheol/Hades/Hell together, although not experiencing the torment that the rich man was experiencing.
I believe that with a little catechesis, the word "hell" ought to be used in every instance of "sheol" and "hades". Since Gehenna is/was a physical place, I would prefer to use the word "Gehenna" or "Valley of Hinnom" or "Hinnom Valley". Gehenna is a foreshadowing of the future Lake of Fire, and the word "hell" should certainly not be used to translate that word.
"Tarturus" could be rendered as either "Tarturus" or "prison", but definitely not "hell". I think the KJV renders is as "prison", iirc.

Here is the definition of Tartarus from BDAG one of, if not, the most highly accredited Greek lexicons available.

ταρταρόω (Τάρταρος ‘the Netherworld’) 1 aor. ἐταρτάρωσα (Acusilaus Hist. [V B.C.]: 2 Fgm. 8 Jac. I p. 50; Lydus, Men. 4, 158 p. 174, 26 W.; cp. Sext. Emp., Pyrrh. Hypot. 3, 24, 210 ὁ Ζεὺς τὸν Κρόνον κατεταρτάρωσεν [this compound several times in Ps.—Apollod.: 1, 1, 4; 1, 2, 1, 2; 1, 2, 3]. Tartarus, thought of by the Greeks as a subterranean place lower than Hades where divine punishment was meted out, and so regarded in Israelite apocalyptic as well: Job 41:24; En 20:2; Philo, Exs. 152; Jos., C. Ap. 2, 240; SibOr 2, 302; 4, 186) hold captive in Tartarus 2 Pt 2:4.—DELG s.v. Τάρταρος. M-M.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 991). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.​

 

[Ronald]

I glanced at the etymology of the term 'hell,' and noticed that it originally means 'to hide or cover.' Well, that's interesting since Sheol/Hades in Scripture means the same thing. It is in my understanding in the past that 'hell' in the King James Version conveyed the same meaning as 'Sheol,' so why do we equate it with 'Gehenna' that will arrive at the last day? How did we confuse the two things?

Hell is the abode of the dead in Old English, not the final destination of the wicked.

What are your thoughts on this?

Hades is the underworld, a dark prison, where the damned go after death to await their final destruction, the Great White Throne Judgment. Hell is the Lake of Fire, the "second death".In Rev. 20:14 Hades and Death are cast into the Lake of Fire and destroyed,,which means all who are in Hades, Death itself, Satan and his demonic horde. Bye bye, the end.
So Hell is more of an event at the end of human history after the Great Tribulation AND The Millennial Kingdom.
Gehenna, the perpetual burning dump outside of Jerusalem used for dead and deseased animals and also going back to The Canaanites, where they sacrificed babies to Molech, gives us an idea of Hell.
I think that scene in the Lord of the Rings when Gollum falls into the Volcanic lava lake gives us a better idea of Hell.

 

[Der Alte]

Brought to the front since people are still claiming the Gehenna refers to a trash dump outside Jerusalem where trash and bodies were burned. That has been proven incorrect.

The traditional explanation that a burning rubbish heap in the Valley of Hinnom south of Jerusalem gave rise to the idea of a fiery Gehenna of judgment is attributed to Rabbi David Kimhi's commentary on Psalm 27:13 (ca. A.D. 1200). He maintained that in this loathsome valley fires were kept burning perpetually to consume the filth and cadavers thrown into it. However, Strack and Billerbeck state that there is neither archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources (Hermann L. Strack and Paul Billerbeck, Kommentar zum Neuen Testament aus Talmud and Midrasch, 5 vols. [Munich: Beck, 1922-56], 4:2:1030). Also a more recent author holds a similar view (Lloyd R. Bailey, "Gehenna: The Topography of Hell," Biblical Archeologist 49 [1986]: 189.
Source, Bibliotheca Sacra / July–September 1992
Scharen: Gehenna in the Synoptics Pt. 1​

Note there is no “archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, [that Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump] in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources” If Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump there should be broken pottery, tools, utensils, bones, etc. but there is no such evidence.

“Gehenna is presented as diametrically opposed to ‘life’: it is better to enter life than to go to Gehenna. . .It is common practice, both in scholarly and less technical works, to associate the description of Gehenna with the supposedly contemporary garbage dump in the valley of Hinnom. This association often leads scholars to emphasize the destructive aspects of the judgment here depicted: fire burns until the object is completely consumed. Two particular problems may be noted in connection with this approach. First, there is no convincing evidence in the primary sources for the existence of a fiery rubbish dump in this location (in any case, a thorough investigation would be appreciated). Secondly, the significant background to this passage more probably lies in Jesus’ allusion to Isaiah 66:24.”
(“The Duration of Divine Judgment in the New Testament” in The Reader Must Understand edited by K. Brower and M. W. Ellion, p. 223, emphasis mine)
G. R. Beasley-Murray in Jesus and the Kingdom of God:
“Ge-Hinnom (Aramaic Ge-hinnam, hence the Greek Geenna), ‘The Valley of Hinnom,’ lay south of Jerusalem, immediately outside its walls. The notion, still referred to by some commentators, that the city’s rubbish was burned in this valley, has no further basis than a statement by the Jewish scholar Kimchi (sic) made about A.D. 1200; it is not attested in any ancient source.” (p. 376n.92)
The Burning Garbage Dump of Gehenna is a myth - Archaeology, Biblical History & Textual Criticism ​

 

[Blade]

Hell is a real place.. made for Satan and his angels not man. I do not believe when a sinner dies he goes to (forgive me Father) hell to burn or be tormented by demons.. .the ones that should be there 1st not man. To then later be taken out of this fire to be judged to be tossed back in. The latter will happen.

There was a garbage dump at that time. Compared TO it yes Christ did. Was that dump "Gehenna" no. Why some only post the sources that say it was never there.. I don't know.. nor care really.

Do you know Christ? <---thats what matters.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[~Zao~]

Where do you think Judas went? - to his own place.

The rich man was not on the wrong side of hell by himself. Abraham referred to
"they".

OT people were gathered to their people - their fathers.
This happened to Jacob after he died - he was gathered - while his body had
not yet left the bed.

I find it interesting that in paradise there was no way that Lazarus could be a servant to the rich man. They could hear each other but the gap wouldn’t permit it.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[~Zao~]

It must have been also a very sad depressing time when the wicked saw that Jesus
Christ had taken the just out of paradise. The wicked may have been begging for Him
to have mercy on them. He led captivity captive - and now the righteous people wait
and arrive yet in heaven, but wicked angels and wicked people have no hope.

What is the gap? Is it resurrections or inheritances or lakes of fire? Who knows?

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[~Zao~]

There is a great gulf fixed, but now it wouldn't matter if the wicked did find a way
to cross it because that area won't be emptied again as to anyone being righteous
or gaining mercy upon them. The rich man knew that he nor his brothers had
repented of their sins. Abraham told how - they can't cross, not just the rich man
can't leap over the gulf. I've wondered how the rich man knew it was Abraham in
paradise. Maybe someone had said his name or one of the other wickeds on his area
of hell had told him. I doubt people wore name tags.

The gap that the freed and oppressors went thru was caused by a very strong wind. Best to pass in the light of day before the darkness comes. Christ’s impending return wouldn’t matter to the brothers anyway

 

[INeedGrace]

The rich man & Lazarus is not a parable, Jesus never gave names of people in parables & He did not liken the story to anything (something that is done in, I am fairly confident, every parable).

I never understood this argument, that since none of Jesus' other recorded parables names aren't given then this one can't be a parable. So what? If the parable is a real event, then there are problems. How does a spirit have a tongue, how does it feel flame? How does it speak without physical vocal cords? The rich man "lifted up his eyes..." What eyes?

 

[RaymondG]

I disagree that the parable isn't a real scenario.

Just because you disagree, doesnt mean that it cant be truth. I feel the words lose most spiritual meanings, when we say "Take it literal"......Yet it is the spirit that give life....while the letter killeth......

 

[RaymondG]

Yes, definitely not asleep. Not unconscious. If people believe that, then they also believe no one is suffering in hell, so then why have hell at all.

Some would say that Fear is a greater motivator than reward. we have all heard that statement "if OSAS was true, I would feel I have a license to sin" or " If universalism is true, I would go out into the world and have all the fun i want cause i will in up in heaven anyway" "If there is no hell, there is no need of a saviour".....etc."

For the salvation we are taught today, involve constant sin struggles......as opposed to a transformation....or birth anew. Therefore we have to add measures to make us remain good, while we are saved.....we must add a reason to continue the race and not look back. in Comes fear. Who doesnt fear being burnt alive? I'd find it a very useful way to get others to believe whatever we say.....you will be burnt alive if you dont.

Yet if one doesnt have seeking the kingdom as their only goal....they wont make. There cannot be any room for avoidance of heel fire in our heart, if we are the seek God with our whole heart.

Any tree grown with seeds of fears of hellfire, must be cut down and planted anew.......

 

[As Hell Falls]

I never understood this argument, that since none of Jesus' other recorded parables names aren't given then this one can't be a parable. So what? If the parable is a real event, then there are problems. How does a spirit have a tongue, how does it feel flame? How does it speak without physical vocal cords? The rich man "lifted up his eyes..." What eyes?

Parables are common situational teachings in the modern language (modern for that time period), mentioning real people, Abraham & Sheol is not from a parable. These are all indicators of a real event coupled with the fact Jesus never calls it a parable like he did for most, if not all, other parables. The straight-forward, in context reading of this passage in no way indicates a parable & there is no reason to assume it would be.

 

[As Hell Falls]

I never understood this argument, that since none of Jesus' other recorded parables names aren't given then this one can't be a parable. So what? If the parable is a real event, then there are problems. How does a spirit have a tongue, how does it feel flame? How does it speak without physical vocal cords? The rich man "lifted up his eyes..." What eyes?

Revelation 6:9-11 also talks about souls crying out & wearing robes. Souls have a form that, from Scripture, is similar to a human form. This is how the rich man could tell who Lazarus was. Also, the very exciting event with God allowing the spirit of Samuel to scare Saul & the medium (had she been a real medium, she would not be terrified to see what she claims to call up for a living).

 

[sdowney717]

Revelation 6:9-11 also talks about souls crying out & wearing robes. Souls have a form that, from Scripture, is similar to a human form. This is how the rich man could tell who Lazarus was. Also, the very exciting event with God allowing the spirit of Samuel to scare Saul & the medium (had she been a real medium, she would not be terrified to see what she claims to call up for a living).

Good example of the OT saints where they went after death.
None of them could go to heaven after death. They were not to be perfected apart from us Christians until Christ came in the NC.
They all who were not the wicked dead went to a part of hell called Paradise.
The wicked dead however went into hell of fiery torments. Samuel tells Saul you will be with me, but that just meant Saul was going to die and be in hell, not that Saul was going to Paradise in hell.
After that parable, the next place we find Paradise mentioned is in heaven with God. When Christ ascended He led the captivity captive. (who were in Paradise in hell)
They did not yet receive the promises, and the promise was eternal life. So they were in Paradise in hell.

Hebrews 11
The Heavenly Hope
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
--------------------------------------------------------------
39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.