BobRyan said:
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True - but in Rev 14:10 it is not just the omnipresent God - but the "not-at-all-omnipresent" angels of God. The wicked are right there --
in their presence for all of the suffering and torment. So also in Rev 14:1-6 are the saints with Christ.
Rev 10:10
10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be
tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Not disagreed here. But a good question is why would God cause their pain? Why would an all-loving God cause eternal torture, as many westerners believe (I have an SDA friend from school who said she had never been taught that God is the cause, so I'm not sure if this is something I'm simply talking at from a different angle and we're both saying the same thing)? Isn't it more likely that the pain is a result of their hatred for God? could they not hate God in such a way that they couldn't stand His presence?
1. Far be it from me to argue that it is eternal torture - that would mean that in Rev 14:10 God and the angels are stuck at the brink of hell for all eternity -- which I think would be "hell" for God and the Angels - not just the wicked - having to watch that for all eternity. I leave those who wish to argue that case - to argue it themselves. (So also are all the saints of Rev 14:1-6 stuck there because it says they go with Christ -"wherever He goes")
2. As for SDA teaching - we say that the wicked choose to reject the gospel and by so doing choose to go to that lake-of-fire "hell". But God causes the event. In Rev 20 He supernaturally raises the wicked from the dead. They do not "raise themselves from the dead" so we have to admit this is God doing it - not the wicked. Secondly it is the same fires that burn and cleanse the earth (in preparation for the New Earth) that punishes and destroys the wicked. Clearly the wicked cannot be doing that to themselves either.
Thirdly Great Controversy 673 and Early Writings 294 (Since you asked - I will quote it)
Great Controversy - 673
Fire comes down from God out of heaven. The earth is broken up. The
weapons concealed in its depths are drawn forth.
Devouring flames burst from every yawning chasm. The very
rocks are on fire. The day has come that shall burn as an oven. The elements melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein are burned up. Malachi 4:1; 2 Peter 3:10. The earth's surface seems one molten mass--a vast, seething
lake of fire. It is the
time of the judgement and perdition of ungodly men--"the
day of the Lord's vengeance, and the
year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion." Isaiah 34:8. {GC 672.2}
Some are destroyed as in a moment,
while others suffer many days. All are
punished “according to their deeds."
...
His (Satan's)
punishment is to be far greater than that of those whom he has deceived. After all have perished who fell by his deceptions,
he is still to live and suffer on. In the cleansing flames the wicked are at last destroyed, root and branch--Satan the root, his followers the branches.
The full penalty of the law has been visited; the demands of justice have been met; and heaven and earth, beholding, declare the righteousness of Jehovah. {GC 673.1}
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Early Writings 294
The Second Death
Satan rushes into the midst of his followers and tries to stir up the multitude to action. But fire from God out of heaven is rained upon them, and the great men, and mighty men, the noble, the poor and miserable,
are all consumed together.
I saw that
some were quickly destroyed, while others suffered longer. They were
punished according to the deeds done in the body.
Some were many days consuming, and just
as long as there was a portion of them unconsumed, all the sense of suffering remained. Said the angel, "
The worm of life shall not die; their fire shall not be quenched
as long as there is the least particle for it to prey upon." {EW 294.1}
Said the angel, "
Satan is the root, his children are the branches. They are
now consumed root and branch. They have died an everlasting death. They are never to have a resurrection, and God will have a clean universe." I then looked and saw
the fire which had consumed the wicked, burning up the rubbish and purifying the earth. Again I looked and saw the earth purified. There was not a single sign of the curse. The broken, uneven surface of the earth now looked like a level, extensive plain.
