Hell.....

[Linet Kihonge]

So if the fire was real, hell should be a verdict not a punishment just the way the other judgments were passed in OT so I think hell is just a judgment

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So if the fire was real, hell should be a verdict not a punishment just the way the other judgments were passed in OT so I think hell is just a judgment

What do you see as the difference between a verdict and a judgment ?

 

[sculleywr]

What do you see as the difference between a verdict and a judgment ?

A verdict is not a punishment. It is a telling of the consequences of your actions.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Abraxos]

The Bible says that hell is a real place.

You ever have that time where you are compelled to say to a fellow man to repent? I think it wise that people really acknowledge that to be true out of fear for their lives and repent. God created hell for Satan and his devils. God gave His only son to die for us so that we may receive eternal life. Sin only leads to death, but God gave us a way out. This is what I believe and what all people need to understand.

 

[sculleywr]

The Bible says that hell is a real place.

You ever have that time where you are compelled to say to a fellow man to repent? I think it wise that people really acknowledge that to be true out of fear for their lives and repent. God created hell for Satan and his devils. God gave His only son to die for us so that we may receive eternal life. Sin only leads to death, but God gave us a way out. This is what I believe and what all people need to understand.

Nobody here is questioning the existence of hell. We're questioning the cause of the pain in hell.

 

[Abraxos]

Nobody here is questioning the existence of hell. We're questioning the cause of the pain in hell.

Can you give me a summary on your version of hell?

 

[sculleywr]

Can you give me a summary on your version of hell?

However the separation works, it probably isn't currently a physical separation, because those who have died do not have their resurrected bodies currently. I'm going to use a metaphor based in computers because it's something I know. If you take a computer that is programmed to run at, oh, 45 watts, and plug it into a power source that is outputting 250 watts of electricity, with no transformer or resistor between the source and the computer, how do you predict that computer is going to respond? Well, it's going to overheat and catastrophically fail, in a likely spectacular manner.

In like manner, man, due to the corruption of sin, is incapable of receiving the power of God. We have lost the transformer that goes between the Source and our computer. To simplify, the act of salvation which God works in us through Christ and the Holy Spirit is the building of that transformer in our lives, to refit us to be capable of withstanding the awesome power of God's presence. Because God is, to quote one of my favorite portions of the Trisagion Prayers, "Everywhere present and filling all things", there is no place in eternity where one will not be in contact with the presence of God. So those who allowed God to work in their lives on earth, where the power source was artificially lessened, find themselves experiencing the presence of God as a computer which has the proper transformer installed: as a refreshing and empowering energy. On the other hand, those who refused to cooperate with God's work in their lives enter eternity without that transformer, and thereby experience the presence of God as an overwhelming "all consuming fire".

To use the Scripture as a source of metaphor, those who are in Christ enter heaven as though they were the bush in the story of Moses, on fire, but never burning, while those who are not in Christ enter hell like the pit of gehenna, ever burning, but never fully consumed.

 

[Abraxos]

I'm asking because in some ways I'm getting a little paranoid over these testimonies of hell, and they seem so sincere in their convictions that I don't know what to think on the matter. It's not something I have in-depth understanding on which is why I asked, so thank you for your input.

It just seems that there are people that have died (one girl physically died for 23 hours) and had experienced something that really comes down to how far a person is willing to believe. I want to believe the girl had that experience and what is amazing, she continues to tell others about it. There is a Jewish boy who died, and he claims to have had experienced something, and had spoke about the return of the Messiac. There is also one about an atheist and so on. I mean, these people all recount the same version of hell, and it's something that I believe people should take into account. We know a person by their fruits and they are indeed amazing Christians, aside from the Jewish boy who is an exception for he is not a Christian, but has nonetheless spoke about things only understood from the Gospels and the book of Revelation.

Just feel the need to voice my thoughts about this.

 

[sculleywr]

I'm asking because in some ways I'm getting a little paranoid over these testimonies of hell, and they seem so sincere in their convictions that I don't know what to think on the matter. It's not something I have in-depth understanding on which is why I asked, so thank you for your input.

It just seems that there are people that have died (one girl physically died for 23 hours) and had experienced something that really comes down to how far a person is willing to believe. I want to believe the girl had that experience and what is amazing, she continues to tell others about it. There is a Jewish boy who died, and he claims to have had experienced something, and had spoke about the return of the Messiac. There is also one about an atheist and so on. I mean, these people all recount the same version of hell, and it's something that I believe people should take into account. We know a person by their fruits and they are indeed amazing Christians, aside from the Jewish boy who is an exception for he is not a Christian, but has nonetheless spoke about things only understood from the Gospels and the book of Revelation.

Just feel the need to voice my thoughts about this.

Nobody has "in-depth" understanding. From what we've seen, people who have been resurrected in scripture rarely are recorded voicing their experiences. So when people talk about their experience of hell today, I take it with a grain of salt.

What I do know is that Jesus gave us a strict warning not to speculate about what comes after death or what will come in the tribulation. The book of Revelation is Scripture, but it wasn't written, for the most part, as a book to us who are not in the Tribulation itself. It was written for those who will experience the events therein. We should be more focused on our lives here on earth.

Imagine a dog whose owner is in a room that dog has never been in before. The dog has followed the scent of his master all the way to this room and is now scratching at the door. Now, for all the dog knows, the other side of that door could contain many things he would not like, but it does not matter to him. The dog knows only one thing, his master is on the other side of the door and he wants to be there. He knows that his master has kept him safe in the past, and so will trust his master to keep him safe even now.

I know not exactly what is on the other side of the door to eternity. But I know my Master is there. He has protected me in the past, and I know He will protect me in the future. So for me, whatever eternity holds for me, I want to be with my Master when He opens the door.

 

[Abraxos]

Nobody has "in-depth" understanding. From what we've seen, people who have been resurrected in scripture rarely are recorded voicing their experiences. So when people talk about their experience of hell today, I take it with a grain of salt.

What I do know is that Jesus gave us a strict warning not to speculate about what comes after death or what will come in the tribulation. The book of Revelation is Scripture, but it wasn't written, for the most part, as a book to us who are not in the Tribulation itself. It was written for those who will experience the events therein. We should be more focused on our lives here on earth.

Imagine a dog whose owner is in a room that dog has never been in before. The dog has followed the scent of his master all the way to this room and is now scratching at the door. Now, for all the dog knows, the other side of that door could contain many things he would not like, but it does not matter to him. The dog knows only one thing, his master is on the other side of the door and he wants to be there. He knows that his master has kept him safe in the past, and so will trust his master to keep him safe even now.

I know not exactly what is on the other side of the door to eternity. But I know my Master is there. He has protected me in the past, and I know He will protect me in the future. So for me, whatever eternity holds for me, I want to be with my Master when He opens the door.

Part of their testimonies was a command from Jesus to tell people on earth about this place, because it is real and He is very near, so they need to repent and forgive people.

Here's one about the Jewish boy, and keep in mind he knows nothing about the Christian gospel, he is a Jewish secular kid, but his testimony is compelling and consistent in both Biblical prophecy, and what he saw. I don't adhere completely to what this Christian teacher's ministry is about, but I do agree with most of his aspects on interpreting the kids dream.

What I'm saying, is that all people should take this into account, if we are to determine a place from a theological perspective.

Edit: Wow, I gave you the wrong video, but this kid does talk about hell in other videos. Here's one about an atheist turned Christian because of this experience he had when he died. It's straight to the point, so there is no dilly dallying with him.

Spoiler

Edit: Okay those were some bad examples of what this thread is about, so I deleted them. Best I can do is the girls experience. Probably I sign to get some sleep.

 

[sculleywr]

Part of their testimonies was a command from Jesus to tell people on earth about this place, because it is real and He is very near, so they need to repent and forgive people.

I don't recall a single time Christ told any resurrected person to speak of anything that happened during their death. Perhaps you could direct me to a passage where He does and then show what that resurrected person's description was?

 

[Abraxos]

Watch the video.

 

[Neogaia777]

If you do not suffer hardly at all, in this life, and you committed many sins deserving of consequences and suffering for (some call God's correction or chastisement) and you are never moved to or see no need for repenting, and you continue in your sin, free from consequence, in this life, and are in fact maybe greatly prospering, in this life, regardless of your committing many sins deserving of suffering, in this life, are you made to suffer in the next?

What if they are not aware of their sin, and think that they are "good"? Isn't it God's job to make them aware of their sin, and bring the suffering in their lives that convicts them? If they are made aware of, or trying to be convicted by God of their sin, but blow it off, ignore it, and forget about it, and go on with life as usual in their sin without ever repenting, did they reject God and will they be made to suffer in the next life for it? And, is it their fault, or not?

If a person does not suffer at all in this life (over their sin), by being or feeling convicted or guilty (over their sin), hopefully leading to repentance (of their sin), who's fault is that? Does God forsake some, but not others? Are some born as, or become a lost cause for God at some point in their life, so that God gives up on them? Is the suffering, in this life, a clue that God has not given up on you? If you repent due to the suffering, will God ease-up on the suffering in this life after you repent, and preserve, reserve and save you for the next life?

 

[Neogaia777]

If you do not suffer hardly at all, in this life, and you committed many sins deserving of consequences and suffering for (some call God's correction or chastisement) and you are never moved to or see no need for repenting, and you continue in your sin, free from consequence, in this life, and are in fact maybe greatly prospering, in this life, regardless of your committing many sins deserving of suffering, in this life, are you made to suffer in the next?

What if they are not aware of their sin, and think that they are "good"? Isn't it God's job to make them aware of their sin, and bring the suffering in their lives that convicts them? If they are made aware of, or trying to be convicted by God of their sin, but blow it off, ignore it, and forget about it, and go on with life as usual in their sin without ever repenting, did they reject God and will they be made to suffer in the next life for it? And, is it their fault, or not?

If a person does not suffer at all in this life (over their sin), by being or feeling convicted or guilty (over their sin), hopefully leading to repentance (of their sin), who's fault is that? Does God forsake some, but not others? Are some born as, or become a lost cause for God at some point in their life, so that God gives up on them? Is the suffering, in this life, a clue that God has not given up on you? If you repent due to the suffering, will God ease-up on the suffering in this life after you repent, and preserve, reserve and save you for the next life?

Aren't the ones who suffer little to nothing in this life,"ignorant" and we should forgive them for being so? Or did God try to get through to them multiple times, and they "chose" to be ignorant, not believing him, blowing off the conviction/correction and forgetting about it and going about their usual, daily lives, having "chose" to be and remain ignorant, thereby rejecting him, and maybe condemning themselves to hell, in the afterlife?

It is still hard to not show mercy, kindness, love and compassion on them even if they did "choose" to be ignorant...

God Bless!

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[sculleywr]

Paul possibly refers to himself as the man that caught up to
the third heaven. Some think this was maybe at the time he
was stoned.

Stephen was stoned and as dying described what he saw.

Also, people came to see Lazarus and /talk to him, but we
don't know if anything or what he told them.

John 12:9 Much people of the Jews therefore knew that he was there: and they came not for Jesus' sake only, but that they might see Lazarus also, whom he had raised from the dead.

John 12:10 But the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus also to death;

John 12:11 Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.

There is also Jonah telling how he prayed from the belly of hell, then
later from inside of the fish. He drowned and then was eaten.

Jonah never died, however. At least, the text never says that he died. It does not say that he drowned. Nobody has really given a detailed description that has been resurrected, not one that isn't apocalyptic in nature.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[sculleywr]

Did you start at the end of Jonah chapter 1 and read straight
into chapter 2? Jonah's story is about how he prayed from two
locations.
after three days... -in the fish
before that - from hell/He recalls how God had heard his
prayer from there.

"Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah////
time now passes///And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights."//body of Jonah
Then
/after the three days and three nights had passed/
Jonah prayed
///What did he pray about? He recalls as to how he had
drowned and was in hell.

Jonah was not alive, ate up by the fish, and then sat inside
of it waiting for almost four days to begin to pray.
Jonah had the waters come even to his soul. He drowned.
The bars of the earth shut about him. He died. In hell he
prayed one prayer...in the fish days and nights later -he prayed
again.

So a fish eats you - Do you really think you would just wait around in it for many days before you would pray to God?
God had heard one of Jonah's prayers, and now he prayed
not from hell/realm of the dead...but inside of his body
revived back in the fish.

The only mention of hell is the dialogue. It is not mentioned in the narrative. The book does not say "and Jonah prayed from hell". It said "Jonah said 'I was in hell'"

David also said that his soul was going down to hell. Did David go to hell?

Unless the NARRATIVE says Jonah died, then Jonah did not die. Sorry, but the narrative does not say Jonah was in hell. Jonah said it. But Jonah is capable of being wrong, as there are many times in the Scripture where dialogue tells the opposite of the truth.