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How could there be a place that an omnipresent God isn't? wouldn't the definition of omnipresent exclude the possibility that there is a place without God?
It probably refers from the direct glory of God, and not His everywhere present nature. He sees everything that happens. He is present for every action we take. There is nowhere He isn't and nothing that could even exist without His willing its existence.Adam and Eve thought they could hide in trees.
Cain went from God's presence.
Did they mean God's glory or what? He dwelt between the cherubim on
the ark of the covenant. To speak with them.
2 Kings 24:20 For through the anger of the LORD it came to pass in Jerusalem and Judah, until he had cast them out from his presence, that Zedekiah rebelled against the king of Babylon.
1 Chronicles 16:33 Then shall the trees of the wood sing out at the presence of the LORD, because he cometh to judge the earth.
2 Chronicles 20:9 If, [when] evil cometh upon us, [as] the sword, judgment, or pestilence, or famine, we stand before this house, and in thy presence, (for thy name [is] in this house,) and cry unto thee in our affliction, then thou wilt hear and help.
out of My sight
Why does this bother you so much? Do you not think us sinners are deserving of Hell? And do we deserve mercy? If we deserve mercy then it is no longer mercy.God is Love, but He mercilessly tortures unbelievers eternally who didn't get it, or who He himself blinded in their puny 80 years on a wicked planet.
is to me .. . its very clear . children get it no problem at all . its only those who think they need to be all theological about it that get all knitted up over it
And what does all this mean. Have we ever seen a person translated? I don't know about you, but I've never seen it happen. How far did they have to travel through space before they arrived at heaven? Did their mass increase exponentially as they approached the speed of light to arrive at some place suitably far enough away from earth that we can't detect it with the umpteen million telescopes and detection devices that are able to see 92 billion light years away? Or did God create a miniature warp field around them when they were translated? What is matter even like in a world where time is not a thing? Remember, for matter to exist, it must vibrate, and to vibrate, there must be time, so matter as we know it couldn't exist in a world without the dimension of time.Why do you think Ezekiel saw His throne as being carried or
such with wheels? There's manna is heaven. right? Is it the
same type of manna that those with Moses ate? Does this
mean angels eat? What about the ones locked up till judgment/
in chains of darkness, are they also hungry? What about the
fruits on the tree of life, will immortal people actually eat them?
If so, then they are some physical things in heaven?
tree of life
manna
The earthly sanctuary - Moses was told to make it after the pattern shown to him in the mount. The NT refers to a heavenly
sanctuary.
How about Enoch translated and went to heaven?
Why does this bother you so much? Do you not think us sinners are deserving of Hell? And do we deserve mercy? If we deserve mercy then it is no longer mercy.
If we don't deserve mercy, and we do deserve Hell, it is truly a wonder that God would save anyone at all, and pay such a heavy price.
Well, Jesus says the Eucharist is His Body and blood. If it isn't physically transsubstantiated (something Orthodox don't teach), then there must be a spiritual component that is being spoken of here, a reality that isn't measured in the empirical realm. Besides that, how could physical matter, which vibrates at particular frequencies and can only be seen because of light traveling through space in a set time, exist in a world with no time? Without time, there can be no heat, no light, no wavelengths or travel. This is coming from an understanding of physical matter granted by my obsession with studying physical matter, especially particles that make up matter. With the understanding that literally everything we experience is dependent on the existence of time, what would be the point of trying to understand what the three spacial dimensions are like in the absence of the temporal dimension?What your idea is that something from heaven could be spiritual
there -such as manna...and on the way here -where time exists>
it became physical?
the tree of life was once here on the earth...now it is in heaven
Real people here ate manna from heaven.
You can use Jonah to show that the soul lives after death and there is a hell. Look at the end of Jonah chapter 1 and then see
how the next chapter goes back in time.
Jonah drowned and then was eaten by the fish.
He went to hell and prayed - then three days later or so wound
back up in his body that had been swallowed and prayed again.
.
from: http://www.reasons.org/articles/a-modern-jonah
A Modern Jonah
December 1, 1991
By Guest Writer
by Edward B. Davis, Ph. A
"A sailor swallowed by a whale," proclaimed the tract that fell out of Winona Echoes, an old volume on my shelf. The tract recounted the following remarkable story:
The whaling ship Star of the East was in the vicinity of the Falkland Islands, searching for whales, which were very scarce. One morning the lookout sighted a whale about three miles away on the starboard quarter. Two boats were manned. In a short time one of the boats was near enough to enable the harpooner to send a spear into the whale, which proved to be an exceedingly large one . . . . The whale ... beat about with its tail in the maddest fashion. The boats attempted to get beyond the reach of the animal, which was apparently in its death agonies, and one of them succeeded, but the other was less fortunate. The whale struck it with his nose and upset it. The men were thrown into the water, and before the crew of the other boat could pick them up, one man drowned and James Bartley had disappeared. When the whale became quiet from exhaustion the waters were searched for Bartley, but [he] could not be found; and, under the impression that he had been struck by the whale's tail and sunk to the bottom, the survivors rowed back to the ship. The whale was dead, and in a few hours the great body was lying by the ship's side, and the men were busy with axes and spades cutting through the flesh to secure the fat. They worked all day and part of the night. They resumed operations the next forenoon, and were soon down to the stomach .... The workmen were startled while laboring to clear it ... to discover something doubled up in it that gave spasmodic signs of life. The vast pouch was ... cut open, and inside was found the missing sailor, doubled up and unconscious. He was laid out on the deck and treated to a bath of sea water, which soon revived him ....
During the brief sojourn in the whale's belly, Bartley's skin, where it was exposed to the action of the gastric juices, underwent a striking change. His face and hands were bleached to a deadly whiteness, and the skin was wrinkled giving the man the appearance of having been parboiled ....
The whaling captains say that they never remember a parallel case to this before. They say that it frequently happens that men are swallowed by whales who become infuriated by pain of the harpoon and attack the boats, but they have never known a man to go through the ordeal that Bartley did and come out alive.
http://www.reasons.org/articles/a-modern-jonah
The wicked die now, but the soul does not.
Isaiah 66 ends with events as to the new earth and
the wicked dead are noted as their worm dieth not.
What do you think the part as to their worm dieth not means in the
end of Isaiah 66? their worm - their fire
It seems it is not the flesh part as they are abhorring to all flesh.
I asked Him when was 15.. 55 now. Asked how can you send all these people to hell. Came right back with "for God so loved the world" Then said "everyone gets a choice". Believe it or not to force some to live forever with Him would be hell. Dont think we can know His GODS heart or pain. He made MAN. So the pain to watch one make that choice.. I cannt even grasp.
Look how JESUS preached... think talk act like that.
How could there be a place that an omnipresent God isn't? wouldn't the definition of omnipresent exclude the possibility that there is a place without God?
Not disagreed here. But a good question is why would God cause their pain? Why would an all-loving God cause eternal torture, as many westerners believe (I have an SDA friend from school who said she had never been taught that God is the cause, so I'm not sure if this is something I'm simply talking at from a different angle and we're both saying the same thing)? Isn't it more likely that the pain is a result of their hatred for God? could they not hate God in such a way that they couldn't stand His presence?True - but in Rev 14:10 it is not just the omnipresent God - but the "not-at-all-omnipresent" angels of God. The wicked are right there -- in their presence for all of the suffering and torment. So also in Rev 14:1-6 are the saints with Christ.
Rev 10:10
10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
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