Hell

[AV1611VET]

But you are trying to make Hell into a small almost insignificant detail, when you know that Hell is the main reason so many people fear God.

I wouldn't know.

I haven't polled them.

They were taught about Hell when they were children.

I certainly hope so.

The question (as I see it) is why do YOU believe in that type of Hell?

For the same reason I believe Heaven exists:

The Bible says it, that settles it.

How could YOU admire a God that would punish so many people so horribly?

I don't.

I admire God for taking my place on the Cross and going to Hell for me.

Or allow them to suffer so horribly simply for not believing the correct dogma?

People don't go to Hell for what is [or isn't] in their heads.

They go to Hell for what isn't in their hearts.

Don't use verses to answer.

Fair enough.

My spiritual armor consists of a Sword [the Bible] and shield (Ephesians 6).

If you want me to lay my Sword down, I will, but it will only get worse for you, as I will retreat behind my shield (my faith), and answer with just my faith.

Then when you get tired of that, you'll do one of two things.

You'll either start asking me to justify my faith with "chapter and verse," or you'll give up.

You make the call though.

I'll set my Bible aside and use my shield -- and we'll see how you like it.

Let me know.

Just explain why you would believe this.

God did it.

Because it seems like this kind of torment and vengeance would have to already exist in a person's heart before they could believe in it as something good.

This sentence doesn't even make sense.

 

[AV1611VET]

Many people who believe in literal eternal hell are pleasant and nice. Deep inside they hate this idea but they don't know better.

Does that include Jesus Christ as well?

 

[AV1611VET]

I believed in eternal hell because I was told that this is how it works with God. I hated it, I couldn't understand "why" but I didn't know better.

Growing up, I listened to my radio.

I believed it because I was told that this is how it works with A.M.

I hated it, I couldn't understand "why" but I didn't kknow better.

 

[AV1611VET]

That describes me until very recently also.

So you guys are taught to hate Hell?

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Is this your nihilist side coming out?

"Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy."

I am a logical nihilist, which is to say that I do not believe in logical axioms as being absolute truth.

As for why I am making the remark you quote, I think it would be fair to replace the title of Joshua with "Genocidal Maniacs." I think it would be fair to ask why slavery is specifically sanctioned in the Bible. I think it would be fair to ask what happened to the eleventh commandment: "Thou shalt not rape."

 

[AV1611VET]

I think it would be fair to ask what happened to the eleventh commandment: "Thou shalt not rape."

Well I guess that's your style, eh?

Wanting to know what isn't in the Bible, as opposed to what is.

Using your apophatic criticism to make you think you're making points.

 

[createdtoworship]

You are on my ignore list. Please don't respond to me as you will only confuse other participants.

Is this your nihilist side coming out?

"Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy."

His posts tend to be very one sided, and commits the same fallacies he is saying Christians do, often in the same posts. Then he flames them for doing it, often making fun of Christ and Christianity in the process, with no indication of open mindedness toward it.

he has no respect for christianity or the Bible, I don't really know why he is on a christian forum if he hates christianity that much.

I can handle some athiests who respect positions of people's views.

but his arrogance and pride cause him to belittle anyone who does not agree with him.

(his posts do this, rather, not necessarily him)

 

[AV1611VET]

His posts tend to be very one sided, and commits the same fallacies he is saying Christians do, often in the same posts. Then he flames them for doing it, often making fun of Christ and Christianity in the process, with no indication of open mindedness toward it.

he has no respect for christianity or the Bible, I don't really know why he is on a christian forum if he hates christianity that much.

I can handle some athiests who respect positions of people's views.

but his arrogance and pride cause him to belittle anyone who does not agree with him.

(his posts do this, rather, not necessarily him)

I feel sorry for him.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Well I guess that's your style, eh?

Wanting to know what isn't in the Bible, as opposed to what is.

Using your apophatic criticism to make you think you're making points.

You deliberately redacted the part where I brought up genocide and slavery in the Bible to make it look like I only discuss things not in the Bible. You are either trolling, or you are a serious Christian who is intellectually dishonest to the extreme. Welcome to my ignore list. Please don't respond to me in the future as it will only confuse other participants.

 

[ScottA]

Hell is omnipresent?

Eternity is omnipresent, whether it be heaven or hell. There is no corner of eternity, where this is not so. Yes, omnipresent.

Think of it like a "law", or many laws, or "the" law. The eternal state of laws or matters of good and evil, leaves the two eternally divided: residents of heaven are no longer subject to evil, and likewise, the eternal residents of hell no longer have heaven as an option. Forever, is forever. It is finished.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Eternity is omnipresent, whether it be heaven or hell. There is no corner of eternity, where this is not so. Yes, omnipresent.

Think of it like a "law", or many laws, or "the" law. The eternal state of laws or matters of good and evil, leaves the two eternally divided: residents of heaven are no longer subject to evil, and likewise, the eternal residents of hell no longer have heaven as an option. Forever, is forever. It is finished.

Laws require evidence to be established. There is not a scrap of evidence for hell.

 

[ScottA]

Laws require evidence to be established. There is not a scrap of evidence for hell.

I said "like"...think of hell "like" a law. Pay attention.

Just because you are incapable of stepping outside the matter of subject to examine it, does not mean there is no proof - there is, it's just beyond you to attain it. You are your own limiting factor.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

I said "like"...think of hell "like" a law. Pay attention.

Just because you are incapable of stepping outside the matter of subject to examine it, does not mean there is no proof - there is, it's just beyond you to attain it. You are your own limiting factor.

Things "like" a law require "evidence."

Also I regard your claim as entirely nonsensical because laws are descriptions of physical processes whereas hell is a place. It's like you are equating a noun and a verb.

 

[ScottA]

Things "like" a law require "evidence."

Also I regard your claim as entirely nonsensical because laws are descriptions of physical processes whereas hell is a place. It's like you are equating a noun and a verb.

Examples are given on a basic or elementary level to explain more complex matters. That is what I was doing with "like." But you are still not able to get past the metaphor...in fact, you consider the metaphoric ("like") world to be all there is. How sad is that!

I may as well say it's "like chicken"...but then, chicken would be the only thing you would want to talk about. See how you are?

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Examples are given on a basic or elementary level to explain more complex matters. That is what I was doing with "like." But you are still not able to get past the metaphor...in fact, you consider the metaphoric ("like") world to be all there is. How sad is that!

I may as well say it's "like chicken"...but then, chicken would be the only thing you would want to talk about. See how you are?

Examples are samples of a larger population. You also misidentify similes as metaphors. Yet you apparently are a fellow author.

But more to the point, you are describing hell as law, or perhaps as an axiom, which is to say that hell is a proposition of some kind. What is hell proposing?

 

[ScottA]

Examples are samples of a larger population. You also misidentify similes as metaphors. Yet you apparently are a fellow author.

But more to the point, you are describing hell as law, or perhaps as an axiom, which is to say that hell is a proposition of some kind. What is hell proposing?

The semantics are not what is important here...and you should get away from them - you are getting hung up on them.

Hell more of an "idea" than a proposition. It is an idea, because one can only imagine after hearing the description(s). The description(s) [hopefully] convey a message as foreknowledge of something coming, a warning. Example: Watch out, up around the bend is a train wreck.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

The semantics are not what is important here...and you should get away from them - you are getting hung up on them.

Hell more of an "idea" than a proposition. It is an idea, because one can only imagine after hearing the description(s). The description(s) [hopefully] convey a message as foreknowledge of something coming, a warning. Example: Watch out, up around the bend is a train wreck.

Please tell me plainly if hell physically exists or not.

 

[ScottA]

Please tell me plainly if hell physically exists or not.

No, it does not.

That simple/elementary answer, however...is the crux of our communication problem. You want a "physical" answer for something that is not physical. But it's not your vocabulary, or your intellect, it's your inability or refusal to look at anything any other way. So, the best that can be said, are metaphors and the like. In such matters...you are a babe (with a bad attitude).

If we could have a decent and appropriate discussion, we might be able to leave the comfort of the physical realm and get to the answer. Meanwhile, your toolbox limitations, have you beating on the problem with the wrong tool (so to speak).

 

[Nihilist Virus]

No, it does not.

Then your contributions are off topic as clearly defined in the OP.

That simple/elementary answer, however...is the crux of our communication problem. You want a "physical" answer for something that is not physical. But it's not your vocabulary, or your intellect, it's your inability or refusal to look at anything any other way. So, the best that can be said, are metaphors and the like. In such matters...you are a babe (with a bad attitude).

If we could have a decent and appropriate discussion, we might be able to leave the comfort of the physical realm and get to the answer. Meanwhile, your toolbox limitations, have you beating on the problem with the wrong tool (so to speak).

I, like the original poster, deal with the standard version of Christianity, not whatever it is you believe in. If you don't believe in a physical hell, try your hand at the controversial theology forums. Real Christians can defend the biblical existence of hell much better than I can.

 

[ScottA]

Then your contributions are off topic as clearly defined in the OP.



I, like the original poster, deal with the standard version of Christianity, not whatever it is you believe in. If you don't believe in a physical hell, try your hand at the controversial theology forums. Real Christians can defend the biblical existence of hell much better than I can.

My explanation gives the true answer to the original post question [below]:

how do you manage to reconcile this belief with anything remotely resembling justice?

You cannot reconcile justice until you understand the true nature of the word and what it is actually describing. The correct context is not "physical." Why do you keep insisting on a physical answer to something that doesn't even exist until physical life is over?