Hell

[BukiRob]

Claiming a particular Scripture verse clearly states something to support one's belief we can all do. Problem is we cannot all be right. Ignoring such claims simply means I do not agree it makes one's case and am not interested in debating the meaning of those verses. What is more telling is one does not address how one's beliefs about Hell, the human soul...etc align with other Scripture and beliefs held/

Supporting how one's view of that particular verse and the resulting belief jive with all other beliefs held to be true is harder than simplying playing "I have verses to back it up" which I is few people attempt it.

I understand why it would be difficult to explain how it could Very Good to create beings to love, serve and know God, made in His Image yet have nothing about those beings that makes them special compared to other life here because one has ruled out the one thing about us that does reflect His Image, our soul, having the same attribute of any "spirit" of sentient being - immortality.
I can understand the difficulty in explaining how a person soul could be both NOT immortal, yet the existence of the person transcends the death of our body. Obviously in ignoring these issues one either has no response or has never really thought this position through beyond simply wanting it to be so and claiming these verses support it.

Just because something is hard, does not mean that one can defend a position by simply quoting Scripture and claiming it backs that position up without explaining how that position supports everything else held to be true.

With all due respect, not a single word you have spoke is backed up by scripture.

If you cant do that then you are speaking error. Especially in the light of the numerous passages of scripture that directly challenge your position.

Man has a body, soul and spirit. animals have a body and a spirit. All living things that are animate have a spirit which is the breath of life and upon death returns to G-d.

When you die, you will go to the grave NOT HEAVEN. You will stay in the grave until the Resurrection of which there are 2 the Resurrection of the Righteous (sanctified believers who are following Yeshua) OR the Resurrection of Judgement.

I am speaking about what scripture says and with all due respect I really am not concerned about what you 'feel' I AM concerned with what G-d has to say on the subject and I will stand by what scripture says

 

[Der Alte]

With all due respect, not a single word you have spoke is backed up by scripture.

If you cant do that then you are speaking error. Especially in the light of the numerous passages of scripture that directly challenge your position.

Man has a body, soul and spirit. animals have a body and a spirit. All living things that are animate have a spirit which is the breath of life and upon death returns to G-d.

When you die, you will go to the grave NOT HEAVEN. You will stay in the grave until the Resurrection of which there are 2 the Resurrection of the Righteous (sanctified believers who are following Yeshua) OR the Resurrection of Judgement.

I am speaking about what scripture says and with all due respect I really am not concerned about what you 'feel' I AM concerned with what G-d has to say on the subject and I will stand by what scripture says

Did you happen to notice that nothing you said here is backed up with scripture? Mr. Pot - Mr. Kettle.

 

[he-man]

With all due respect, not a single word you have spoke is backed up by scripture.

If you cant do that then you are speaking error. Especially in the light of the numerous passages of scripture that directly challenge your position.

Man has a body, soul and spirit. animals have a body and a spirit. All living things that are animate have a spirit which is the breath of life and upon death returns to G-d.

When you die, you will go to the grave NOT HEAVEN. You will stay in the grave until the Resurrection of which there are 2 the Resurrection of the Righteous (sanctified believers who are following Yeshua) OR the Resurrection of Judgement.

I am speaking about what scripture says and with all due respect I really am not concerned about what you 'feel' I AM concerned with what G-d has to say on the subject and I will stand by what scripture says

 

[DrBubbaLove]

With all due respect, not a single word you have spoke is backed up by scripture.

If you cant do that then you are speaking error. Especially in the light of the numerous passages of scripture that directly challenge your position.

Man has a body, soul and spirit. animals have a body and a spirit. All living things that are animate have a spirit which is the breath of life and upon death returns to G-d.

When you die, you will go to the grave NOT HEAVEN. You will stay in the grave until the Resurrection of which there are 2 the Resurrection of the Righteous (sanctified believers who are following Yeshua) OR the Resurrection of Judgement.

I am speaking about what scripture says and with all due respect I really am not concerned about what you 'feel' I AM concerned with what G-d has to say on the subject and I will stand by what scripture says

I very much doubt there is any respect given.

As I pointed out before, being able to suggest a particular UNDERSTANDING of verse PROVES one's position is true can be self serving. Much harder is explaining how that understanding of that verse fits with everyhting else one holds to be true.

If one claims there is nothing about a person which transcends death (IOW stay in the grave) then one is punting on the question. If "staying in the grave" is understood as the person still existing (ex: soul sleep) then one is already conceding my point. Something about us transends death, which mean whatever that is, that aspect of our existence is immortal.

 

[he-man]

With all due respect, not a single word you have spoke is backed up by scripture.

If you cant do that then you are speaking error. Especially in the light of the numerous passages of scripture that directly challenge your position.

Man has a body, soul and spirit. animals have a body and a spirit. All living things that are animate have a spirit which is the breath of life and upon death returns to G-d.

When you die, you will go to the grave NOT HEAVEN. You will stay in the grave until the Resurrection of which there are 2 the Resurrection of the Righteous (sanctified believers who are following Yeshua) OR the Resurrection of Judgement.

I am speaking about what scripture says and with all due respect I really am not concerned about what you 'feel' I AM concerned with what G-d has to say on the subject and I will stand by what scripture says

Good job.

 

[CherubRam]

Who do you think is the Serpent? Do you trust the Serpent to tell you the truth?

Genesis 3:4
“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.

Our reward is eternal life.

 

[SarahsKnight]

Something about us transends death, which mean whatever that is, that aspect of our existence is immortal.

Dr. Bubba, where do you get this, though? Where does the Bible plainly state that anything at all about us is immortal?

Does not God as of now alone have immortality (1 Timothy 6:16) and are people not encouraged to seek immortality (or believers are said for it to be their hope) in Romans 2:7?

So how do you get this, when there's merely a handful of verses that can potentially be construed as merely indicating that we have a soul that transcends death whether believer or unbeliever? (such as where Paul says he desires to be absent from the body AND present with God).


And why would God have specifically banished man from Eden before he could take hold of the Tree of Life and live forever (Genesis 3:22), if there's a part of us that will live forever one way or another?

 

[he-man]

Dr. Bubba,
So how do you get this, when there's merely a handful of verses that can potentially be construed as merely indicating that we have a soul that transcends death whether believer or unbeliever? (such as where Paul says he desires to be absent from the body AND present with God).?

Exactly!extinguish <G4570> they are extinct, As flax they are extinguished.' they vanish <H1846 &#1491;&#1468;&#1506;&#1498;>

blot him from My book. H4229 &#1502;&#1495;&#1492; by implication to erase; - abolish, blot out, destroy, utterly, wipe (away, out).
the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven. H4229 &#1502;&#1495;&#1492; by implication to erase;

H4229 &#1502;&#1495;&#1492; by implication to erase; also to smooth (as if with oil), that is, grease or make fat; also to touch, that is, reach to: - abolish, blot out, destroy, full of marrow, put out, reach unto, X utterly, wipe (away, out). H3772 &#1499;&#1468;&#1512;&#1514; A primitive root; to cut (off, down or asunder); by implication to destroy or consume;

 

[CherubRam]

Who do you think is the Serpent? Do you trust the Serpent to tell you the truth?

Genesis 3:4
“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.

Our reward is eternal life.

Oblivion
noun: oblivion

ob liv i on: A state of nonexistence, or nothingness.

 

[he-man]

Did you happen to notice that nothing you said here is backed up with scripture? Mr. Pot - Mr. Kettle.

Thayer 2) straw broken up by a threshing machine, chaff; Greek lexicon based on Thayer's and Smith's Bible Dictionary plus others; this is keyed to the large Kittel and the "Theological Dictionary of the New Testament."
extinguish<G4570> they are extinct, As flax they are extinguished.' they vanish <H1846 &#1491;&#1468;&#1506;&#1498;> blot him from My book. H4229 &#1502;&#1495;&#1492; by implication to erase; - abolish, blot out, destroy, utterly, wipe (away, out) the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven. H4229 &#1502;&#1495;&#1492; by implication to erase;

H4229 &#1502;&#1495;&#1492; by implication to erase; also to smooth (as if with oil), that is, grease or make fat; also to touch, that is, reach to: - abolish, blot out, destroy, full of marrow, put out, reach unto, X utterly, wipe (away, out). H3772 &#1499;&#1468;&#1512;&#1514; A primitive root; to cut (off, down or asunder); by implication to destroy or consume;

Why is the Lord laughing then? Ps 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

Isa 5:24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

Merriam-Webster Dictionary Definition of CHAFF: discarded or useless material 1: the seed coverings and other debris separated from the seed in threshing grain

Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them up: but gather the wheat into my repository.

Mat 13:38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked.

I guess you cannot understand JESUS when he said: he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.?

Mat 13:51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things?

Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the repository; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Matthew 3:12 The shovel he uses to sift the wheat from the husks is in his hands. He will clean out his threshing area and bring the wheat into his barn. But he will burn up the husks with a fire that can&#8217;t be put out.&#8221;

Hos 13:3 Therefore they will be like morning clouds, like early morning dew that evaporates, like chaff blown away from the threshing floor, or like smoke from a chimney."


The destruction of the wicked, and their powerlessness, are likened to the carrying away of chaff by the wind ( Isaiah 17:13 ; Hosea 13:3 ; Zephaniah 2:2 ). M.G. Easton M.A., D.D., Illustrated Bible Dictionary


Job 21:18 They are as stubble before the wind, and as chaff that the storm carrieth away.

Psa 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.


Isa 29:5 Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly.

 

[SarahsKnight]

I guess you cannot understand JESUS when he said: he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.?



For some reason the traditionalist side seems to assume that the phrase "burn up" means nothing, despite the fact that is specifically referring to the unbeliever. But "unquenchable fire"? Oh, that must automatically mean that whatever goes into the fire must last for eternity like the fire itself does.

 

[abysmul]

I guess you cannot understand JESUS when he said: he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.?



For some reason the traditionalist side seems to assume that the phrase "burn up" means nothing, despite the fact that is specifically referring to the unbeliever. But "unquenchable fire"? Oh, that must automatically mean that whatever goes into the fire must last for eternity like the fire itself does.

If you are wanting to add members to your congregation/church/denomination, it's very easy to preach and scare people into joining by telling them that if they don't join (and thereafter donate $$$) that when they die they will face an eternity of unending torture, so join (give $$) or be tortured.

In our local communities, you can almost always find someone or some group somewhere on a corner of a busy intersection with big signboards with pictures of flames that just scream about HELL-FIRE!

 

[Der Alte]

I guess you cannot understand JESUS when he said: he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.?

For some reason the traditionalist side seems to assume that the phrase "burn up" means nothing, despite the fact that is specifically referring to the unbeliever. But "unquenchable fire"? Oh, that must automatically mean that whatever goes into the fire must last for eternity like the fire itself does.

Excuse me while a interject a little truth into this discussion. One [1] out-of-context proof text which either misrepresents or misunderstands the meaning. What is "chaff?" It is not something distinct from the grain, it is part of the same plant. Chaff is the stems, leaves, husks, etc. the part of the grain plant which is not used. So the chaff being burned up does not relate to punishment of individuals but the removal of the undesirable from believers see e.g. 1 Cor 3:12-15. And second error this one out-of-context verse ignores other verses such as Matt 25:31-46,

1Co 3:12-15
(12) Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
(13) Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
(14) If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
(15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.​

 

[SarahsKnight]

I believe you're right about the out-of-context part and I stand corrected on that particular thing.

 

[Der Alte]

If you are wanting to add members to your congregation/church/denomination, it's very easy to preach and scare people into joining by telling them that if they don't join (and thereafter donate $$$) that when they die they will face an eternity of unending torture, so join (give $$) or be tortured.

In our local communities, you can almost always find someone or some group somewhere on a corner of a busy intersection with big signboards with pictures of flames that just scream about HELL-FIRE!

This is a logical fallacy "poisoning the well." Did the ancient Jews before and during the time of Jesus who taught about a place of eternal, unending punishment for the unrighteous, which they called Ge-Hinnom and Sheol, also use that as a excuse to get more money, etc? See my [post=65877433]Post #4[/post] this thread which documents the Jewish belief in "hell" before and during the time of Jesus.

 

[he-man]

This is a logical fallacy "poisoning the well." Did the ancient Jews before and during the time of Jesus who taught about a place of eternal, unending punishment for the unrighteous, which they called Ge-Hinnom and Sheol, also use that as a excuse to get more money, etc? See my [post=65877433]Post #4[/post] this thread which documents the Jewish belief in "hell" before and during the time of Jesus.

Nonsense, it is with ref. to fires of Moloch where superstitous people supposed it was a place of torture brought on by Dante and his Purgatorio, Canto X, Inferno, Canto XXXIV, Inferno, Canto I,It follow's Dante's own allegorical journey through Hell (Inferno), Purgatory (Purgatorio), The tripartite stanza likely symbolizes the Holy Trinity. Dante Alighieri | Academy of American Poets

&#947;&#949;&#941;&#957;&#945;v Gehenna, a valley W. and H. of Jerusalem, which as the site of fire-worship from the time of Ahaz, was desecrated by Josiah and became a dumping-place for the offal of the city prob. with ref. to fires of Moloch
Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament P. 89 G. ABBOTT-SMITH, D.D., D.G.L

 

[Der Alte]

Nonsense, it is with ref. to fires of Moloch where superstitous people supposed it was a place of torture brought on by Dante and his Purgatorio, Canto X, Inferno, Canto XXXIV, Inferno, Canto I,It follow's Dante's own allegorical journey through Hell (Inferno), Purgatory (Purgatorio), The tripartite stanza likely symbolizes the Holy Trinity. Dante Alighieri | Academy of American Poets

&#947;&#949;&#941;&#957;&#945;v Gehenna, a valley W. and H. of Jerusalem, which as the site of fire-worship from the time of Ahaz, was desecrated by Josiah and became a dumping-place for the offal of the city prob. with ref. to fires of Moloch
Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament P. 89 G. ABBOTT-SMITH, D.D., D.G.L

You cannot be serious quoting a book on poetry as a source for Biblical history. Posting the same outdated copy/paste which has been disproven several times before does not make it true. Note the three modern sources which state there is no, zero, none evidence in any credible source showing that the valley of Hinnom was ever used as a garbage dump or a place for burning bodies.

[Post #4 reposted]

Based on historical evidence below the Hell:No!, view being presented in this forum is not correct. The Jews, in Israel before and during the time of Jesus believed in a place of eternal, unending, fiery torment and they called it both Gehinnom/Gehenna and Sheol. When Jesus taught about "Eternal punishment, Mt 25:46""the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, Mk 9:43-48" and "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Mt 13:42, 50 that supported and validated the existing view of eternal hell. Jesus was born into and grew to maturity in that culture. He knew what His countrymen, the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong Jesus would have corrected them. He did not correct them, thus their teaching on hell was correct. Here is historical evidence to support this.

Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna

The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch was originally in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). For this reason the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a); [Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT the bias of Christian translators.]

It is assumed in general that sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell (B.M. 83b).

But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]

As mentioned above, heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).

Jewish Encyclopedia Online
====================================================================
Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.

The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [follower of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written [Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."

Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.​

 

[he-man]

You cannot be serious quoting a book on poetry as a source for Biblical history. Posting the same outdated copy/paste which has been disproven several times before does not make it true.

Nonsense, it is with ref. to fires of Moloch where superstitous people supposed it was a place of torture brought on by Dante and his Purgatorio, Canto X, Inferno, Canto XXXIV, Inferno, Canto I,It follow's Dante's own allegorical journey through Hell (Inferno), Purgatory (Purgatorio), The tripartite stanza likely symbolizes the Holy Trinity. Dante Alighieri | Academy of American Poets

Posting the same outdated copy/paste which has been disproven several times before does not make it true as you have quoted 50 times or more on this forum> Jewish Encyclopedia Online What decade was that written from?

So you choose a JEWISH Encylopedia written not in GREEK and from a Hebrew standpoint, from people who do not believe Christ has yet appeared over a Christian Bible and from a Christian Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament P. 89 G. ABBOTT-SMITH, D.D., D.G.L

&#947;&#949;&#941;&#957;&#945;v Gehenna, a valley W. and H. of Jerusalem, which as the site of fire-worship from the time of Ahaz, was desecrated by Josiah and became a dumping-place for the offal of the city prob. with ref. to fires of Moloch

Lev 18:21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.

Jer 32:35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

1Ki 11:7 Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.

 

[CherubRam]

The Hebrew word Sheol literally means grave, not Hell. Is there LIFE in Hell? God says that man will surely die, and the Serpent says that man will not surely die.

The Pagans teach that there is life in Hell. God says there is death. And Yahshua also said that God can destroy both body and spirit.

If the word Hell is biblical, then the Serpent told the truth and God lied. Get my point?

Romans 1:32. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”


Matthew 10:28
And do not fear them which can kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in [hell / Gehenna.
The word Gehenna is used as a parable to mean eternal destruction.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.


Job 27:8
For what hope have the godless when they are cut off, when God takes away their life?


As we all know the bible uses many parables. There is no real Hell, that word was put into scriptures by the Gnostic Pagans. Words like grave, pit, and Gehenna were replaced with the word hell. Those who are condemned to destruction never return. They are cut off for all eternity, never to live again.

The number of times "Hell" appears in the English Bible
Translations


Bible Translations
Old Testament
New Testament
Total's
"Authorized" King James Version
31
23
54
New King James Version
19
13
32
American Standard Version
0
13
13
New American Standard Bible
0
13
13
Revised Standard Version
0
12
12
New Revised Standard Version
0
12
12
Revised English Bible
0
13
13
New Living Translation
0
13
13
Amplified
0
13
13
New International Version (best-selling English Bible)
0
14
14
Darby
0
12
12
New Century Version
0
12
12
Wesley's New Testament (1755)

0
0
Scarlett's N.T. (1798)

0
0
The New Testament in Greek and English (Kneeland, 1823)

0
0
Young's Literal Translation (1891)
0
0
0
Twentieth Century New Testament (1900)

0
0
Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (reprinted, 1902)
0
0
0
Fenton's Holy Bible in Modern English (1903)
0
0
0
Weymouth's New Testament in Modern Speech (1903)

0
0
Jewish Publication Society Bible Old Testament (1917)
0

0
Panin's Numeric English New Testament (1914)

0
0
The People's New Covenant (Overbury, 1925)

0
0
Hanson's New Covenant (1884)

0
0
Western N.T. (1926)

0
0
NT of our Lord and Savior Anointed (Tomanek, 1958)

0
0
Concordant Literal NT (1983)

0
0
The N.T., A Translation (Clementson, 1938)

0
0
Emphatic Diaglott, Greek/English Interlinear (Wilson, 1942)

0
0
New American Bible (1970)
0
0
0
Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible (1976)
0
0
0
Tanakh. The Holy Scriptures, Old Testament (1985)
0

0
The New Testament, A New Translation (Greber, 1980)

0
0
Christian Bible (1991)
0
0
0
World English Bible (in progress)
0
0
0
Original Bible Project (Dr. James Tabor, still in translation)

0
0
0
Zondervan Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1975)

0
0
Int. NASB-NIV Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1993)**

0
0

Hades is the Greek god of the underworld.

Hades ( /&#712;he&#618;di&#720;z/; from Greek &#8077;&#948;&#951;&#962; (older form &#7944;&#989;&#943;&#948;&#951;&#962, Had&#275;s, originally &#7949;&#953;&#948;&#951;&#962;, Haid&#275;s or &#902;&#912;&#948;&#951;&#962;, Aid&#275;s (Doric &#7944;&#912;&#948;&#945;&#962; Aidas), meaning "the unseen") was the ancient Greek god of the underworld. The genitive &#8077;&#948;&#959;&#965;, Haidou, was an elision to denote locality: "[the house/dominion] of Hades". Eventually, the nominative came to designate the abode of the dead.

In Greek mythology, Hades is the oldest male child of Cronus and Rhea. According to myth, he and his brothers Zeus and Poseidon defeated the Titans and claimed rulership over the cosmos, ruling the underworld, air, and sea, respectively; the solid earth, long the province of Gaia, was available to all three concurrently.

Hades was also called "Plouton" (Greek: &#928;&#955;&#959;&#973;&#964;&#969;&#957;, gen.: &#928;&#955;&#959;&#973;&#964;&#969;&#957;&#959;&#962;, meaning "Rich One"), a name which the Romans Latinized as Pluto. The Romans would associate Hades/Pluto with their own chthonic gods, Dis Pater and Orcus. The corresponding Etruscan god was Aita. Symbols associated with him are the Helm of Darkness, the bident and the three-headed dog, Cerberus.


Matthew 11:23
And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.

Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Luke 10:15
And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades.

Luke 16:23
In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

Revelation 1:18
I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Revelation 6:8
I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

Revelation 20:13
The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.

Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

Tar-ta-rus (tartarus) [[ Gr Tartaros ]] Gr. Myth. 1. An infernal abyss below Hades, where Zeus hurls the rebel Titans, later a place of punishment for the demons and devils. (mentioned only once in the Bible)


2 Peter 2:4
New International Version (NIV)

4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,[a] putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

Footnotes:
a.2 Peter 2:4 Greek Tartarus
b.2 Peter 2:4 Some manuscripts in gloomy dungeons

Catholic Gnosticism.
The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.”

Pope Gregory 540 – 12 March 604.

Just a reminder that it was the Catholic Church that canonized scripture.

The Rich Man And Lazarus With Commentary.
Luke 16
19 "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
Wealth, comfort, poverty, and suffering have nothing to do with a person’s salvation.

22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
The word messenger is replaced with the word angel. And assuming that this is a parable, there would be no need for Lazarus to be carried to Abraham, and before the resurrection. As for being in Hell and torment and agony; that contradicts the verse that says the dead know nothing. It also is a contradiction where scripture says that Yahuah kills the condemned. In regards to the water on the finger; that would evaporate before it even got to a person. It also contradicts where God said “you will surly die.”

25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

Again I say to you that wealth and poverty has nothing to do with the resurrection of the righteous. There is one truth in all of this, and that there is a chasm that has been set in place; and that is called death of the condemned, which are killed by Yahuah. There is no life for them afterward.

27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

These are obviously the words of a dimwit, and not the words of an ancient being. No place in these verses is credit given to Yahuah, but only to Moses and the prophets; which would be unlike Yahshua to exclude Yahuah in matters of life and death.

Hell is a pagan belief and part of the Pagan religion. Why would Yahshua use a nonexistent biblical teaching for which he never explains afterward? Before the return from Babylon, Judaism never taught the concept of hell. After the return from Babylon the Hellenistic and Kabbalistic Jews began to introduce Hell into Judaism.

Yahshua never identified the story as a parable, and never explained the relevance as he did in other legitimate parables.
Yahshua, being an ancient being full of knowledge and wisdom, would have had the good sense to explain the new concept. Obviously the story of “The Rich Man and Lazarus” are the words of some man introducing the Pagan concept of Hell.

Theophilus is the name or honorary title of the person to whom the Gospel of Luke and the Acts of the Apostles are addressed (Luke 1:3, Acts 1:1)

It is unanimously agreed that both Luke and Acts were originally written in Koine Greek, and that "Theophilos," as it appears therein, means friend of God or (be)loved by God or loving God in the Greek language.

No one knows the true identity of Theophilus who wrote the story, and there are more than several conjectures and traditions around an identity.

In all there are about eight traditions based upon that story. Again I say: Hell has never been a doctrinal belief in Judaism.

Don't you think if Yahshua was to introduce a new doctrine that he would at least explain the story?

Just a reminder.

 

[Der Alte]

Reminder that all the above argument have been refuted.

Based on historical evidence below the Hell:No!, view being presented in this forum is not correct. The Jews, in Israel before and during the time of Jesus believed in a place of eternal, unending, fiery torment and they called it both Gehinnom/Gehenna and Sheol. When Jesus taught about "Eternal punishment, Mt 25:46""the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, Mk 9:43-48" and "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Mt 13:42, 50 that supported and validated the existing view of eternal hell. Jesus was born into and grew to maturity in that culture. He knew what His countrymen, the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong Jesus would have corrected them. He did not correct them, thus their teaching on hell was correct. Here is historical evidence to support this.

Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna

The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch was originally in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). For this reason the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a); [Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT the bias of Christian translators.]

It is assumed in general that sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell (B.M. 83b).

But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]

As mentioned above, heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).


Jewish Encyclopedia Online
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Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.

The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [follower of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written [Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."

Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.​