Hell

[GuardianShua]

Hell Link To Subject
Hell | Christian Forum

Post any comments you may have here at CF.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Are you inviting to to post HERE or at the link you posted ?

 

[GuardianShua]

Are you inviting to to post HERE or at the link you posted ?

Post you comment here, unless you feel a need to post at my forum.

 

[Lady Bug]

where do demons and satan "reside" if there is no hell? maybe there is an answer to this that I'm not aware of

too many people have either felt or encountered demonic entities...so where do they come from?

 

[Migdala]

Is this a thread for people who do not believe there is a hell? Isn't it clearly taught in the Bible? I know that I have had experiences with demons, and visions, so I certainly believe that they are in a realm beyond this earthly one, and since they are pure evil, they sure won't be in Heaven with the Lord. I believe in Heaven and Hell. I didn't really understand what this thread is about. Is it to discuss Hell, or a lack of belief in it?

 

[xDenax]

where do demons and satan "reside" if there is no hell? maybe there is an answer to this that I'm not aware of

too many people have either felt or encountered demonic entities...so where do they come from?

Okay, I do not believe in hell, demons or satan but for the sake of argument let's pretend I do. Why would satan or demons currently live in hell?

 

[GuardianShua]

Is this a thread for people who do not believe there is a hell? Isn't it clearly taught in the Bible? I know that I have had experiences with demons, and visions, so I certainly believe that they are in a realm beyond this earthly one, and since they are pure evil, they sure won't be in Heaven with the Lord. I believe in Heaven and Hell. I didn't really understand what this thread is about. Is it to discuss Hell, or a lack of belief in it?

where do demons and satan "reside" if there is no hell? maybe there is an answer to this that I'm not aware of

too many people have either felt or encountered demonic entities...so where do they come from?

Dreams, visions, and parables are only a likeness to a reality. The word "Satan" is a Hebrew word where as the word "Devil" or "Demon" is Greek. There are many Satan's or Devil's who happen to be people. A "spirit" can be a person, place, or thing. Spirits are the nature of a being, a thing, or a place. In scriptures Satan is different persons. Is this explanation of any help to you?

 

[Alithis]

hell .. hmm so much controversy

to even begin on the topic one would fist have to come to a conclusion on the question of

what is death .. is it non existence ? I do not believe so as that which has originated from God cannot cease to exist (not a doctrinal stance ..just what I believe )

Death ,to my oh so limited comprehension is to be separated from the source of life -G-d !
and since G-d is ALL thing GOOD All things peace All things Light All things eternally comforted all things kind all things merciful all things righteous all things beneficial to well being etc

to be eternally separated from him would be to be in a place of eternal absence from all the above and more

to my understanding only one English word describes such a thing - "hell"
--------------
on the topic of demons etc - having had the experiences i have had in YESHUA ,my Deliverer i have NO DOUBT as to the reality of those fallen ones and the victory we have been given over them .

where do they dwell ? they were cast down to the earth ..where will they go ? to the lake of fire reserved for them ..its just whats written i have no reason to overly dissect it lol

So end my shared thoughts on the topic - i remain open to correction at all times

 

[The Lone Ranger]

Hell is in the center of the Earth. The New Testament says Jesus descended into Hell. It also says he ascended to Heaven. So down is Hell, and up is Heaven. That's my take on it.

 

[GuardianShua]

Hell is in the center of the Earth. The New Testament says Jesus descended into Hell. It also says he ascended to Heaven. So down is Hell, and up is Heaven. That's my take on it.

hell .. hmm so much controversy

to even begin on the topic one would fist have to come to a conclusion on the question of

what is death .. is it non existence ? I do not believe so as that which has originated from God cannot cease to exist (not a doctrinal stance ..just what I believe )

Death ,to my oh so limited comprehension is to be separated from the source of life -G-d !
and since G-d is ALL thing GOOD All things peace All things Light All things eternally comforted all things kind all things merciful all things righteous all things beneficial to well being etc

to be eternally separated from him would be to be in a place of eternal absence from all the above and more

to my understanding only one English word describes such a thing - "hell"
--------------
on the topic of demons etc - having had the experiences i have had in YESHUA ,my Deliverer i have NO DOUBT as to the reality of those fallen ones and the victory we have been given over them .

where do they dwell ? they were cast down to the earth ..where will they go ? to the lake of fire reserved for them ..its just whats written i have no reason to overly dissect it lol

So end my shared thoughts on the topic - i remain open to correction at all times

Hell Luke 16:19.

I give thanks to you Heavenly Father for hearing my complaint.


The Rich Man and Lazarus
Luke 16:19. "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

Wealth, comfort, poverty, and suffering have nothing to do with a person’s salvation.

22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

The word messenger is replaced with the word angel. And assuming that this is a parable, there would be no need for Lazarus to be carried to Abraham, before the resurrection. As for being in Hell and torment and agony; that contradicts the verse that says the dead know nothing. It also is a contradiction where scripture says that Yahwah kills the condemned. In regards to the water on the finger; that would evaporate before it even got to a person.

25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

Again I say to you that wealth and poverty has nothing to do with the resurrection of the righteous. There is one truth in all of this, and that there is a chasm that has been set in place; and that is called death of the condemned, which are killed by Yahwah. There is no life for them afterward.

27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

These are obviously the words of a dim wit, and not the words of an ancient being. No place in these verses is credit given to Yahwah, but only to Moses and the prophets; which would be unlike Yahshua to exclude the Father in matters of life and death.

Hell is a pagan belief and part of the Pagan religion. Why would Yahshua use a nonexistent biblical teaching for which he never explains afterward? Before the return from Babylon, Judaism never taught the concept of hell. But after the return from Babylon, the Hellenistic and Kabbalistic Jews began to introduce Hell into Judaism.

Yahshua never identified the story as a parable, and never explained the relevance as he did in other legitimate parables.
Yahshua, being an ancient being full of knowledge and wisdom, would have had the good sense to explain the new concept. Obviously the story of “The Rich Man and Lazarus” is the words of some man introducing the Pagan concept of Hell.

Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"

Luke 20:16
"What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them? He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others." When the people heard this, they said, "May this never be!"

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten.

Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades (Grave) were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
If death and the grave, or even Hades is done away with, then how can there be anyone ALIVE in Hades.


Revelation 21
1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."
5 He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This (That) is the second death."


Catholic Gnosticism.
The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.”
Pope Gregory 540 – 12 March 604.
Not only were the Congregations divided by Gnosticism, but enticed by philosophy and paganism also, and there were geographic divisions as well.

Just a reminder that it was the Catholic Church that canonized scripture.

 

[GuardianShua]

Tar-ta-rus (tartarus) [[ Gr Tartaros ]] Gr. Myth. 1. An infernal abyss below Hades, where Zeus hurls the rebel Titans, later a place of punishment for the demons and devils. (mentioned only once in the Bible)

Ha-des (hadez) [[Gr Haides ]] 1 Gr. Myth. a. The home of the dead, beneath the earth. b The god of the underworld. 2. Bible: The state or resting place of the dead: Name used in some modern translations of the New Testament.

She-ol (sheol) [[Heb shaal , to dig]] A place in the depths of the earth conceived of as the dwelling of the dead. Note: In the KJV about half of scriptures are translated as hell, the other half as grave.

Gehenna: Mentioned twelve or thirteen times in the bible. Gehenna: Referring to the Valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna which is the city dump outside the walls of Jerusalem; it then was a place of constant burning of refuge.

Topheth is believed to be a location in Jerusalem, in the Valley of Hinnom, where the Canaanites sacrificed children to the god Moloch by burning them alive.

Isaiah 30:33
Topheth has long been prepared; it has been made ready for the king. Its fire pit has been made deep and wide, with an abundance of fire and wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of burning sulfur, sets it ablaze.

Jeremiah 7:31-32
They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind. So beware, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when people will no longer call it Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter, for they will bury the dead in Topheth until there is no more room.

 

[GuardianShua]

Job 27:8
For what hope have the godless when they are cut off, when God takes away their life?

God said you will die. The Serpent said, "you will not surly die." Hell is the Serpent's doctrine. Which god do you follow?

 

[Alithis]

interesting - but all based on the premise that death is non-existence.
where as i stated i believe death is separation from the source of life being G-d .
and if only non-existence awaits the wicked - what is to be feared? we may as well do what ever we please We wont know anything after wards if we no longer exist .

but i cannot believe that the second death is non-existence - if i believed that ..and you knew my past- You would know that i would have committed suicide long ago .what is to be feared ? the non existent fear nothing.
also the fallen angels will be judged and as they do not live as flesh and blood and the first death is to be cut off from the flesh -how shall that which is spirit and originated from God .. die -or cease to exist? it just rings true to me that the second death is to be eternally cut off from G-d . and that would be a very horrid place to be in .

and remember i do not believe in purgatory -= its a different topic and a load of rubbish imo

 

[GuardianShua]

interesting - but all based on the premise that death is non-existence.
where as i stated i believe death is separation from the source of life being G-d .
and if only non-existence awaits the wicked - what is to be feared? we may as well do what ever we please We wont know anything after wards if we no longer exist .

but i cannot believe that the second death is non-existence - if i believed that ..and you knew my past- You would know that i would have committed suicide long ago .what is to be feared ? the non existent fear nothing.
also the fallen angels will be judged and as they do not live as flesh and blood and the first death is to be cut off from the flesh -how shall that which is spirit and originated from God .. die -or cease to exist? it just rings true to me that the second death is to be eternally cut off from G-d . and that would be a very horrid place to be in .

and remember i do not believe in purgatory -= its a different topic and a load of rubbish imo

It's a life or death choice. Do you want to live, or do you want to die?
Matthew 16:26
King James Version (KJV)
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

 

[Alithis]

oh .. we do not disagree on the words of the lord .
never.

just on our perception on what is meant by the term "death"

 

[GuardianShua]

oh .. we do not disagree on the words of the lord .
never.

just on our perception on what is meant by the term "death"

A living "soul" consist of both spirit and body.
Matthew 16:26
King James Version (KJV)
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Judgement day people will be called back into being, having both a body and their spirit.

 

[visionary]

Would you say that there is life in death? Because in my book, there is no life in death...

 

[dnc101]

where do demons and satan "reside" if there is no hell? maybe there is an answer to this that I'm not aware of

too many people have either felt or encountered demonic entities...so where do they come from?

Mat 10:28 "Do not fear those who kill the body but are powerless to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Gei-Hinnom (Hell)."


Matthew 5:22 "But I tell you that anyone who nurses anger against his brother will be subject to judgment; that whoever calls his brother, `You good-for-nothing!' will be brought before the Sanhedrin; that whoever says, `Fool!' incurs the penalty of burning in the fire of Gei-Hinnom!

Mark 9:43 "If your hand makes you sin, cut it off! Better that you should be maimed but obtain eternal life, rather than keep both hands and go to Gei-Hinnom, to unquenchable fire!"

Rev 12:9 "The great dragon was thrown out, that ancient serpent, also known as the Devil and Satan [the Adversary], the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him."

Rev 12:3-4 "Another sign was seen in heaven there was a great red dragon with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven royal crowns. Its tail swept a third of the stars out of heaven and threw them down to the earth. It stood in front of the woman about to give birth, so that it might devour the child the moment it was born."

There is a part of you which will live on into eternity.

Ha satan is real. Hell is real. To think otherwise is wishful thinking.

Demons are also real. They are the third of the stars swept to earth by the dragon's (ha satan's) tail. They reside on earth for now, but they are of the spirit realm.

Their character is extremely angry, hateful, destructive. They cannot be redeemed and they know it; they know their fate, and they want you to share in it with them. Their ultimate end is to be thrown into the pit and to be eternally tormented. There are a lot of theories on what Hell is and what the fire represents- all we really need to know is it-will-be-AWEFUL! If nothing else it is absolute separation from G-d. Think of the terrible connotations in that one fact: no goodness, the depths of depression, hopelessness, despair, anger, hatred, fear, onlt negative emotions ... that in itself will be pure torment, let alone the fire!

Our culture has been deceived into thinking they are myths, and they are happy to operate under the radar like that. Many cultures deal with them as an all too real part of their life. Some African cultures, South American, and even in the US in places like New Orleans. Witchcraft (white or black) calls on their power, and is growing everywhere. So are satanic cults and paganism (yes, there really are people who claim to be pagans). I've heard missionaries tell stories of having to deal with demons.

So people can believe what they want, but like pre-trib rapture I think much of what some believe is just wishful thinking. G-d says Hell exists; Yeshua referred to it Himself. He also spoke of a soul that experiences eternal life for those whose trust is in Him, and eternal fire for those who don't.

Dan C

Edit: my personal experience- I've felt their presence and dealt with them in very real ways, but do not claim to have seen them or to have any special discernment of them. I just got involved in the wrong things.

 

[The Lone Ranger]

I have read things before that made me suspicious that the Catholic Church may have tweaked some of the scripture for various reasons, but am unable to prove that personally. No offense, but I will have to have faith that the Bible written as it is now, is true.

 

[Lady Bug]

I have read things before that made me suspicious that the Catholic Church may have tweaked some of the scripture for various reasons, but am unable to prove that personally. No offense, but I will have to have faith that the Bible written as it is now, is true.

how do we know what the content of the Gospels was if we didn't have hard copies of the manuscripts for such a long time?

like you, I have faith that the Bible as it is written now is true but I wonder about this every now and then.