Hell

[visionary]

I didn't say any of that ... I think you are misunderstanding me.

Let's hit this from another angle. I am going to be cremated. It's all arranged, and I even have the little box they are going to stuff me into. Thing is the size of a modest jewelry box.

For now it just sits on top of my dresser and mocks me. There is a picture frame on top that can stand up, and I told my kids I'm going to get some glow-in-the-dark craft paints and write in it "Immortal, at least until now ..." But the fact is that box will one day have the last laugh in this present reality.

I am not worried though, because I serve an infinite G-d who will, in His own time, reconstruct for me a glorified body and my spirit will inhabit that body. Our humanity as the Creator constructed us is more than just this present corruptible body.

So that really little box doesn't bother me one bit. Now for the unsaved, it is a different story. I was going to put it out as the centerpiece to last years Thanksgiving table as a witness to unsaved loved ones, but my wife ...

Dan ( ) C

It is this type of attitude that just will not fly by the Lord unscathed... this is the type of attitude we must lose in order to win His Image... repent of such wickedness..

 

[dnc101]

I've never been so confused in my whole life

You've been infected with a kind of computer virus- a nasty little bug that is spread with contact on forums. Te cure is prayer, scripture reading and time.

My advice is for now stick to your basics. You have accepted Yeshua, so you do not have to worry about Hell. As you grow in the Word you can form your own opinion.

Your witness to others should be the joy and freedom you find in Yeshua and not threats of Hell any way. Not that fear of Hell isn't a good reason for searching, it's just that it isn't the reason for salvation. Fear is not a good basis for a strong relationship.

As someone once said, G-d doesn't sell fire insurance.

Dan C

 

[visionary]

You've been infected with a kind of computer virus- a nasty little bug that is spread with contact on forums. Te cure is prayer, scripture reading and time.

My advice is for now stick to your basics. You have accepted Yeshua, so you do not have to worry about Hell. As you grow in the Word you can form your own opinion.

Your witness to others should be the joy and freedom you find in Yeshua and not threats of Hell any way. Not that fear of Hell isn't a good reason for searching, it's just that it isn't the reason for salvation. Fear is not a good basis for a strong relationship.

As someone once said, G-d doesn't sell fire insurance.

Dan C

Best advise.. Will set you freeEnjoy the LordWe will be praying for you..

 

[dnc101]

It is this type of attitude that just will not fly by the Lord unscathed... this is the type of attitude we must lose in order to win His Image... repent of such wickedness..

Oh, trust me, this little attempt at a humorous illustration of my view on how we enter eternity is the least of my worries when I have to give account. Praise G-d He is sufficient, because if everything was really set on a balance I'm afraid the bad would tip the scales the wrong way.

Dan C

 

[visionary]

Oh, trust me, this little attempt at a humorous illustration of my view on how we enter eternity is the least of my worries when I have to give account. Praise G-d He is sufficient, because if everything was really set on a balance I'm afraid the bad would tip the scales the wrong way.

Dan C

And here I was only referring to your thoughts on your wife..
may she use your ashes in the cat litter box........ us women need to stick together...

 

[dnc101]

And here I was only referring to your thoughts on your wife..
may she use your ashes in the cat litter box........ us women need to stick together...

LROL! At that point, I don't think it will matter to me. Might as well get some use out of 'em.

Dan C

 

[visionary]

LROL! At that point, I don't think it will matter to me. Might as well get some use out of 'em.

Dan C

in the end everything comes up smelling like roses..

 

[GuardianShua]

I've never been so confused in my whole life

Now what are you confused about? You need to explain yourself.

 

[GuardianShua]

Our bodies are mortal, and are spirits are mortal. Only Yahwah can grant immortality.

The people who translated our scriptures were not always faithful to the truth. The word Gehenna is given the interpretation Hell twelve times in the NIV bible. In other places in scriptures the Hebrew word Sheol, which means grave, is often given the interpretation "Hell."


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Valley of Hinnom,
Gehenna (Greek γέενν&#945, Gehinnom (Rabbinical Hebrew: גהנום/גהנ&#1501 and Yiddish Gehinnam, are terms derived from a place outside ancient Jerusalem known in the Hebrew Bible as the Valley of the Son of Hinnom (Hebrew: גֵיא בֶן־הִנֹּם or גיא בן-הינום one of the two principal valleys surrounding the Old City.
Originally, it was believed that this was a location where children were sacrificed to Moloch, hence from the perspective of the authors of the Hebrew Bible, it was deemed to be cursed.
In Jewish, Christian and Islamic scripture, Gehenna is a destination of the wicked.

In Christ day it was used as a garbage dump where refuse burned day and night. It is parabolic for destruction.

Matthew 13:34
Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable.

Matthew 11:23
And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.

Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Luke 10:15
And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades.

Luke 16:23
In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

Revelation 1:18
I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Revelation 6:8
I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

Revelation 20:13
The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.

Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

Where do you find the word Hades in the Old Testament, you don't.

If God did not bring people back into being, they would never live again.

Hell and Hades was introduced in order to sell indulgences. Hell and Hades is not an original teaching in Judaism, it was introduced by the Catholics.

Originally Posted by GuardianShua
Tar-ta-rus (tartarus) [[ Gr Tartaros ]] Gr. Myth. 1. An infernal abyss below Hades, where Zeus hurls the rebel Titans, later a place of punishment for the demons and devils. (mentioned only once in the Bible)

Ha-des (hadez) [[Gr Haides ]] 1 Gr. Myth. a. The home of the dead, beneath the earth. b The god of the underworld. 2. Bible: The state or resting place of the dead: Name used in some modern translations of the New Testament.

She-ol (sheol) [[Heb shaal , to dig]] A place in the depths of the earth conceived of as the dwelling of the dead. Note: In the KJV about half of scriptures are translated as hell, the other half as grave.

Gehenna: Mentioned twelve or thirteen times in the bible. Gehenna: Referring to the Valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna which is the city dump outside the walls of Jerusalem; it then was a place of constant burning of refuge.

Topheth is believed to be a location in Jerusalem, in the Valley of Hinnom, where the Canaanites sacrificed children to the god Moloch by burning them alive.

Isaiah 30:33
Topheth has long been prepared; it has been made ready for the king. Its fire pit has been made deep and wide, with an abundance of fire and wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of burning sulfur, sets it ablaze.

Jeremiah 7:31-32
They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind. So beware, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when people will no longer call it Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter, for they will bury the dead in Topheth until there is no more room.
Originally Posted by GuardianShua
Job 27:8
For what hope have the godless when they are cut off, when God takes away their life?

God said you will die. The Serpent said, "you will not surly die." Hell is the Serpent's doctrine. Which god do you follow?
Originally Posted by GuardianShua
It's a life or death choice. Do you want to live, or do you want to die?
Matthew 16:26
King James Version (KJV)
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Originally Posted by GuardianShua
A living "soul" consist of both spirit and body.
Matthew 16:26
King James Version (KJV)
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Judgement day people will be called back into being, having both a body and their spirit.

 

[GuardianShua]

Hell Link To Subject
Hell | Christian Forum

Post any comments you may have here at CF.

Hell | Christian Forum

 

[Alithis]

If a spirit does not cease to exist, then it is immortal and there is no need for God to give it life as an eternal gift.

and yet the Lord Jesus said " and this is life .. that they may know you the one true God ..-"

so we see that existence is not life and non existence is not necessarily death

but to be cut off from God is the second death. for if one has been made non existent then there is nothing to judge nor punish nor save nor anything.
non existence is nothing to be feared nor saved from

but if eternal life is to know God - then the second death is to be cut of eternally from God .. I see nothing in any scripture you share that suggests that means non existence ..
it is written that we all were in G-d before the creation of the world ... shall that which existed now not exist? that would be to suggest that G-d does not exist .

slapping your forehead because you do not wish to consider it from the differing aspect of life being united with G-d and death being cut of from him ,does not make your words right nor mine wrong ..

i have been very polite in all this .stating clearly that it is "what i believe" and that i do not raise it up as a doctrine .just a consideration.
I have gladly considered what you have had to say .. and this one issue does not make sense ....
if all that is to happen in the end of all things ,when one does not obey G-d, is to be made non-existent - then i find no point in fearing it . as the non-existent will not know they are non-existent ..nothing lost, nothing gained -nothing exists to gain or lose to that which does not exist.

but if death is to be cut of from G-d -who is life ,and know it . then there is everything to be lost and everything to be gained

 

[Avodat]

Think I've learned how to appreciate the hell from the mother-in-law! It is much less complicated than you guys make life and death seem to be on here, and there is a clear end in sight!

 

[GuardianShua]

and yet the Lord Jesus said " and this is life .. that they may know you the one true God ..-"

so we see that existence is not life and non existence is not necessarily death

but to be cut off from God is the second death. for if one has been made non existent then there is nothing to judge nor punish nor save nor anything.
non existence is nothing to be feared nor saved from

but if eternal life is to know God - then the second death is to be cut of eternally from God .. I see nothing in any scripture you share that suggests that means non existence ..
it is written that we all were in G-d before the creation of the world ... shall that which existed now not exist? that would be to suggest that G-d does not exist .

slapping your forehead because you do not wish to consider it from the differing aspect of life being united with G-d and death being cut of from him ,does not make your words right nor mine wrong ..

i have been very polite in all this .stating clearly that it is "what i believe" and that i do not raise it up as a doctrine .just a consideration.
I have gladly considered what you have had to say .. and this one issue does not make sense ....
if all that is to happen in the end of all things ,when one does not obey G-d, is to be made non-existent - then i find no point in fearing it . as the non-existent will not know they are non-existent ..nothing lost, nothing gained -nothing exists to gain or lose to that which does not exist.

but if death is to be cut of from G-d -who is life ,and know it . then there is everything to be lost and everything to be gained

God is testing you. Do you want to believe God is merciful? Or do you want to believe God is a sadistic God who will torture living being for all eternity?
Yah is life. Are you not reading what I post?

Job 27:8
For what hope have the godless when they are cut off, when God takes away their life?

John 5
28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.

Condemnation from God brings death.

 

[dnc101]

Think I've learned how to appreciate the hell from the mother-in-law! It is much less complicated than you guys make life and death seem to be on here, and there is a clear end in sight!

Yes, well, my end is certainly in clear view!

Dan C

 

[Lady Bug]

no pun intended but this thread is giving me hell

 

[Alithis]

God is testing you. Do you want to believe God is merciful? Or do you want to believe God is a sadistic God who will torture living being for all eternity?
Yah is life. Are you not reading what I post?

Job 27:8
For what hope have the godless when they are cut off, when God takes away their life?

John 5
28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.

Condemnation from God brings death.

I already not only believe God is merciful -but Know with all my being that he is ..and in that mercy has made the way of escape fully open to one and all .

but again you do not thus far post anything to say that death is non existence

I told you from the start that we would stump ourselves on the perception of "what is death" is it non existence or eternal separation from God .

i say eternal separation from God - you say .. well no you don't say .. you imply ,that it is Non-existence . but the non existent can not be referred to as the those that were condemned as they would not exist and that which does not exist cannot be referred to in any tense .

G-d by his word became one of us and suffered the curse of death so that we would never have to - thus G-d is indeed merciful . neither the righteousness nor the mercy of G-d will be judged as un-just by those that refuse his mercy. His mercy is never in question.

on a side issue - i note you downed the testimony of those who have passed from this life and returned(on another thread ) -implying they are puffed up with notions - and yet they simply testify of what they experienced and heard and saw .. when they testify of experiences with Yeshua -are you ok with that ? but when they testify of Yeshua showing them this eternal place of fire that is not quenched .. do you reject their testimony because it does not agree with your own theories ?

all we had to go on to learn of the Messiah in the first place was the testimony of those that heard and saw the Messiah .... words written on a page or passed by mouth .. and in that testimony they say we have testified but you do not hear our testimony - but you believe them - as Do I . then you reject the testimony of others who also agree with the word of G-d made flesh - but you base your rejection of their testimony on what ? the fact that it does not agree with your personal theories ?

do they lie ? what is their motive to lie ? they died , they live ,they tell of what they heard and saw of the Messiah and what he showed them .
all they have to gain from testifying is ridicule from the world - so when ,with nothing but ridicule to gain ,they still testify .. I am inclined to believe their testimony is true .
I would also be inclined to believe your "theories " are true .. ( and they might yet turn out to be ) but thus far .. you have not begun to convince me ..and you should be cautious of convincing me - because i do not fear non existence - how could i - i would not exist .

 

[Hoshiyya]

I already not only believe God is merciful -but Know with all my being that he is ..and in that mercy has made the way of escape fully open to one and all .

but again you do not thus far post anything to say that death is non existence

I told you from the start that we would stump ourselves on the perception of "what is death" is it non existence or eternal separation from God .

i say eternal separation from God - you say .. well no you don't say .. you imply ,that it is Non-existence . but the non existent can not be referred to as the those that were condemned as they would not exist and that which does not exist cannot be referred to in any tense .

G-d by his word became one of us and suffered the curse of death so that we would never have to - thus G-d is indeed merciful . neither the righteousness nor the mercy of G-d will be judged as un-just by those that refuse his mercy. His mercy is never in question.

on a side issue - i note you downed the testimony of those who have passed from this life and returned(on another thread ) -implying they are puffed up with notions - and yet they simply testify of what they experienced and heard and saw .. when they testify of experiences with Yeshua -are you ok with that ? but when they testify of Yeshua showing them this eternal place of fire that is not quenched .. do you reject their testimony because it does not agree with your own theories ?

all we had to go on to learn of the Messiah in the first place was the testimony of those that heard and saw the Messiah .... words written on a page or passed by mouth .. and in that testimony they say we have testified but you do not hear our testimony - but you believe them - as Do I . then you reject the testimony of others who also agree with the word of G-d made flesh - but you base your rejection of their testimony on what ? the fact that it does not agree with your personal theories ?

do they lie ? what is their motive to lie ? they died , they live ,they tell of what they heard and saw of the Messiah and what he showed them .
all they have to gain from testifying is ridicule from the world - so when ,with nothing but ridicule to gain ,they still testify .. I am inclined to believe their testimony is true .
I would also be inclined to believe your "theories " are true .. ( and they might yet turn out to be ) but thus far .. you have not begun to convince me ..and you should be cautious of convincing me - because i do not fear non existence - how could i - i would not exist .

"Dying you shall not die" said the Serpent, and most of the world believed him.
Death is death - but even apart from that game, Guardian makes the simple point: Does God torture anyone forever? No.
Is his "justice" this cruel - and irrational ? Nay.

And consider: Why should we have to turn the other cheek, if God doesn't? Are we better than him?

Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”
Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.
Matt. 18:21-22

 

[Lady Bug]

for Messianics who believe that Jesus' sacrifice atoned for the sins of mankind, what would be the point of that sacrifice if there were no condemnation of some sort in the afterlife? We obviously don't get rewarded for it on earth, or even punished on earth for not believing (some might debate the latter on this one).

 

[Hoshiyya]

for Messianics who believe that Jesus' sacrifice atoned for the sins of mankind, what would be the point of that sacrifice if there were no condemnation of some sort in the afterlife? We obviously don't get rewarded for it on earth, or even punished on earth for not believing (some might debate the latter on this one).

Obviously there's punishment - but not eternally...
neither the Hebrew עולם nor Greek αἰών means Eternal or Forever. For example, Jonah says his 3-day stay in the whale lasted for an עולם (Jonah 2:6). It also says the Aaronic priesthood is to last for an עולם, and we don't have that priesthood today either.

 

[Lady Bug]

Obviously there's punishment - but not eternally...
neither the Hebrew עולם nor Greek αἰών means Eternal or Forever. For example, Jonah says his 3-day stay in the whale lasted for an עולם (Jonah 2:6). It also says the Aaronic priesthood is to last for an עולם, and we don't have that priesthood today either.

I can't believe how bad I am with the Bible sometimes. I've read the NT a few times but I'm bad with the OT because I have read hardly any of it, and I am trying to read it but the energy needed to do it is a lot harder. I am trying. I am thus ignorant of plenty in the OT that might have to do with what I am talking about.

how do we know it's not eternal punishment?

I hope people don't get annoyed with me here...I have too many questions and I should know the answer...I'm the type of person to forget what they read in the Bible easily...