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Hell.

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dollarsbill

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The bible is true. Eternal Destruction is destruction that lasts forever.
Complain to the author if you don't like it.
Did I mention that these:

Revelation 20:15 (NASB)
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

come before this?

Revelation 22:11 (NASB)
11 "Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy;
 
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dollarsbill

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And of course, it is worthy of mention that the words “everlasting” and “eternal” in the New Testament are both translated from the same Greek word, “aionos”.
Which Greek word is this?

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Lysimachus

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Young'sLT correctly renders that greek word :)

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

Reve 1:18 and the living One! And I became dead and behold! I am living into the Ages of the Ages amen.
And I am having the Keysof the Hades and of the Death

touV aiwnaV <165> twn <3588> aiwnwn <165>

Reve 14:11 And the Smoke of the tormenting of them into Ages of Ages is ascending. And not they are having rest of Day and of Night the Ones worshipping the Beast ....................

aiwnaV <165> aiwnwn <165>

Reve 19:3 and a second time They have declared "Hallelujah and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages"
&#12288;
touV aiwnaV <165> twn <3588> aiwnwn <165>

Reve 20:10 And the Devil, the one deceiving them, was cast into the Lake of the fire and of sulfur, the where also the Beast and the False-prophet. And they shall be being tormented of day and of night into the Ages of the Ages.
&#12288;
touV <3588> aiwnaV <165> twn <3588> aiwnwn <165>

Indeed, very good. Thanks for sharing.

Lexical parsers definitely help to show how a same word can have multiple slight variations.

Great amo here! :thumbsup:
 
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Kepha

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The same one as I mentioned in this previous post ;)
I'll repeat what I said earlier. It's the individual interpreter's opinions and nothing more who render it 'ages and ages' but then form their own personal conclusion, and change it to literally mean everlasting if it says "everlasting (Aionios) life", ONLY because they misunderstand the concept of death in a Spiritual sense.
 
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GOD is LOVE is GOD

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The main problem I see with your perspective is that you are evaluating the expression "eternal punishment" from a modern English perspective, not from an ancient Hebrew or Greek mind. Much study has gone into their fancy way of writing. Keep in mind that the word "eternal" or "forever" is translated in the LXX from the Hebrew word "eternal" or "forever" in context of numerous occasions in which the subject in question came to an end. Such as Samuel as High Priest forever, or Jonah in the Belly of the Whale forever.

Keep also in mind that there is no such expression as "eternal hell-fire". Or even "eternal hell". Remember, we already know that souls "die" (Ezekiel 18:4, 20), not "just" their bodies. Death = cessation of existence, not "eternal existence in hell".

Also, you are making the expression "eternal punishment" really mean "eternal punishing". Punishing has to do with an unceasing present state of occurrence. Punishment would be in allusion to a one time process that has endless results.

It could also mean a "punishment" that comes from an "eternal God". Not that the punishing process is endless. This ideology is what makes the atheists cringe.

I'll sum up what I believe to be the correct way to view it:

"Everlasting punishment" (Matt. 25:46) is not endless punishing, nor is "everlasting destruction" (2 Thess. 1:9) endless destroying, any more than "eternal salvation" (Heb. 5:9) is endless saving, or "eternal judgment" (Heb. 6:2) is endless judging, or &#8220;eternal redemption&#8221; (Heb 9:12) is endless redeeming, or &#8220;everlasting gospel&#8221; (Rev 14:6) is endless preaching. The "eternal" pertains to the result, and not to the process. The results or consequences are eternally irrevocable. And of course, it is worthy of mention that the words &#8220;everlasting&#8221; and &#8220;eternal&#8221; in the New Testament are both translated from the same Greek word, &#8220;aionos&#8221;.

Notice that while 2 Thess. 1:9 uses the phrase "everlasting destruction", Psalms 9:5,6 says... "Thou hast destroyed the wicked, Thou hast put out their name forever and ever. O thou enemy, destructions are come to a PERPETUAL END."

So notice how "forever and ever", and "perpetual" are CONJOINED with the term "destructions" and "END". Ask yourself the question, God is LOVE is God, do the scriptures contradict themselves? Or perhaps do these scriptures provide a deeper explanation for other more difficult passages? ;) God has given us the tools to crack these mysteries, and we have no excuse to not understand what God means. The Bible was written in such a way to give ROOM to those who desire to misinterpret it. As it tests people, to see how anxious they are to dig for the truth and crack the codes.

Once you put ALL the scripture pieces of the puzzle together, the truth begins to shine, and bring JOY to your soul! :D

This is one of the most glorious, and beautiful truths that the whole world needs to know. It is my prayer that this glorious truth of God's love and justice will transform the hearts of believers, bring tears to their eyes, and increase their apprecation for their Master and their Saviour! :)

God bless. :)

I will put it a different way then:

It is true that the root "aion" means age. But just because a root means age does not mean that every word derived from that root means a limited duration of time. For example, consider this verse that is speaking about God:

who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen, (1 Tim. 6:16)

The context is obviously dealing with God's eternal nature. The word in Greek for "immortality" is "athanatos." The Greek word for death is "thanatos." The "a" in front of the word is the negator -- without, non, etc. It means that God is deathless; hence, immortal. This is an eternal quality of God. Likewise, the verse states that God has eternal dominion. The word for "eternal" is "aionios" which is derived from the Greek root "aion" which means age. But, God is not immortal for only an "age," nor is His dominion temporal. The word "eternal" is absolutely the best way to translate the Greek "aionion" because God is immortal and eternal. Therefore, it would be wrong to translate the verse by stating that God has "aionion" dominion. Rather, He has eternal dominion.

The following two sections are verses that contain the word "aionion" which is translated as "eternal." Notice how using the word "eternal" in the first group is no problem. It is the second group with which some object. Nevertheless, the same word is used in both. See for yourself.

~John 6:47, "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal (aionion) life.
~John 10:28, "and I give eternal (aionion) life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand."
~Acts 13:48, "And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal (aionion) life believed."
~Romans 2:7, " to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal (aionion) life."
~Romans 5:21, "that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal (aionion) life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
~Rom. 16:26, " but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal (aionion) God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith."
~Gal. 6:8, "For the one who sows to his own flesh shall from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit shall from the Spirit reap eternal (aionion) life."
~1 Tim. 6:16, "who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal (aionion) dominion! Amen."
~1 John 1:2, "and the life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness and proclaim to you the eternal (aionion) life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us"
~1 John 5:11, "And the witness is this, that God has given us eternal (aionion) life, and this life is in His Son."

~Matt. 18:8, "And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal (aionion) fire.
~Matt. 25:41, "Then He will also say to those on His left, &#8216;Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal (aionion) fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;"
~Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal (aionion) punishment, but the righteous into eternal (aionion) life."
~Mark 3:29, "but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal (aionion) sin."
~Mark 10:30, "but that he shall receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal (aionion) life.
~Luke 18:30, "who shall not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal (aionion) life."
~2 Thess. 1:9, "And these will pay the penalty of eternal (aionion) destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,"
~Jude 7, "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal (aionion) fire."

You can't go about picking and choosing the meaning of a word based upon your interpretations of "aion" that suits you and depending on which verse is used.

Peace and blessings to you..
 
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Lysimachus

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I will put it a different way then:

It is true that the root "aion" means age. But just because a root means age does not mean that every word derived from that root means a limited duration of time. For example, consider this verse that is speaking about God:

who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen, (1 Tim. 6:16)

Oh I agree with you here. I'm not saying that aion does not mean endless. Primarily, it does. My point was that just because the word is used, doesn't mean necessarily that it is endless. But, in the context of all the scriptures I was showing you, the "eternal" can be relating to the consequences, not to the duration. Like eternal judgment. We know we will not be judging forever, right? Yet scriptures use the term. The meaning of the term means that the results or verdict of that judgment are eternal.

Now, notice the expression in the verse above, "who ALONE possess immortality". Right? Obviously then, if God alone is immortal, obviously man, who has separated himself from God after sin, and are in a degenerated state, is not immortal. We are mortal human beings, and "immortality" is only put on when? At the last trump according to 1 Cor 15:51-55.

Therefore, the "eternal" is either endless or terminates, depending on whether one is speaking of a "mortal" sphere, or an "immortal sphere". Hope that makes more sense.

In other words, since God is immortal, and man is not, the "eternal" in God's sphere is endless. The "eternal" in man's sphere is not. At any rate, the results of God's judgment are eternal, but you will not be judged eternally. There is always a verdict to a judgment. Eternal fire, eternal judgment. Think about it. ;)

The context is obviously dealing with God's eternal nature. The word in Greek for "immortality" is "athanatos." The Greek word for death is "thanatos." The "a" in front of the word is the negator -- without, non, etc. It means that God is deathless; hence, immortal. This is an eternal quality of God. Likewise, the verse states that God has eternal dominion. The word for "eternal" is "aionios" which is derived from the Greek root "aion" which means age. But, God is not immortal for only an "age," nor is His dominion temporal. The word "eternal" is absolutely the best way to translate the Greek "aionion" because God is immortal and eternal. Therefore, it would be wrong to translate the verse by stating that God has "aionion" dominion. Rather, He has eternal dominion.

Agreed. I believe this enternal is unequivocally, "never ending". Remember, God is a "consuming fire" (Heb 12:29), and also remember, God's people dwell in "eternal burnings" in heaven (Isaiah 33:14,15). So God's fire never goes out. But that does not mean that the wicked things it burns, burns in duration forever. It consumes it, and "devours" it--God is a "devouring flame" (see Isa. 29:6; 30:30), and the wicked will be "devoured" (Rev. 20:9). As soon as the devouring is finished, that fire goes out only in the sense that it goes back to God. But everything it burned turned to "ashes" (Malachi 4:1,3), and the fire is then withdrawn back to God who sent it, just like the breath of life that goes back to God who gave it.

The prophet Ezekiel used the king of Tyre as a symbol for Satan, since Satan is the "king", and author and instigator of all pagan and Babylonian religion. Pagan kings sit in the seat of Satan, so they are used as symbols for Satan by the Hebrew prophets. In Ezekiel 28, when shifting the focus to the "anointed cherub that covereth", who walked "in Eden", and was "perfect in all his ways", and "walked in the midst of the stones of fires" (remember, God's people can dwell in fire), God says of Satan, "therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more." (See Ezekiel 28:13-19 for context).

Interesting, isn't it? Yet we know that Satan is a spirit-being, and will still be brought to "ashes" in front of everyone, and "never will he be again". This proves that God can do anything, even burn up to ashes a spirit-being.

The following two sections are verses that contain the word "aionion" which is translated as "eternal." Notice how using the word "eternal" in the first group is no problem. It is the second group with which some object. Nevertheless, the same word is used in both. See for yourself.

~John 6:47, "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal (aionion) life.
~John 10:28, "and I give eternal (aionion) life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand."
~Acts 13:48, "And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal (aionion) life believed."
~Romans 2:7, " to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal (aionion) life."
~Romans 5:21, "that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal (aionion) life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
~Rom. 16:26, " but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal (aionion) God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith."
~Gal. 6:8, "For the one who sows to his own flesh shall from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit shall from the Spirit reap eternal (aionion) life."
~1 Tim. 6:16, "who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal (aionion) dominion! Amen."
~1 John 1:2, "and the life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness and proclaim to you the eternal (aionion) life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us"
~1 John 5:11, "And the witness is this, that God has given us eternal (aionion) life, and this life is in His Son."

~Matt. 18:8, "And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal (aionion) fire.
~Matt. 25:41, "Then He will also say to those on His left, &#8216;Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal (aionion) fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;"
~Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal (aionion) punishment, but the righteous into eternal (aionion) life."
~Mark 3:29, "but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal (aionion) sin."
~Mark 10:30, "but that he shall receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal (aionion) life.
~Luke 18:30, "who shall not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal (aionion) life."
~2 Thess. 1:9, "And these will pay the penalty of eternal (aionion) destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,"
~Jude 7, "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal (aionion) fire."

You can't go about picking and choosing the meaning of a word based upon your interpretations of "aion" that suits you and depending on which verse is used.

Peace and blessings to you..

Totally agree that eternal in most cases means forever. But keep in mind, you can go visit the ashen remains of Sodom and Gomorrah today, and Sodom and Gomorrah AREN'T burning still. ;) Yet the results were from an "eternal fire". Make more sense? That fire is still burning. But that fire is where God dwells, not on Sodom and Gomorrah. :)

Check out the sulfur balls of Sodom and Gomorrah right here:
Sodom & Gomorrah

Remember, if Sodom and Gomorrah were still burning, I'd have to say God's fire is a pretty WEAK fire! :p

God's fire never stops burning, but what it burns stops being burned. It "burns up". (2 Peter 3:10).

Peace and blessings right back at ya ma'am. =]

Lysimachus
 
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dollarsbill

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Totally agree that eternal in most cases means forever. But keep in mind, you can go visit the ashen remains of Sodom and Gomorrah today, and Sodom and Gomorrah AREN'T burning still. ;) Yet the results were from an "eternal fire". Make more sense? That fire is still burning. But that fire is where God dwells, not on Sodom and Gomorrah. :)
Which means that God wasn't referring to the temporal burning of Sodom. He was referring to afterward, the eternal fire.
 
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Timothew

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I don't know what the Eternal Torment ship is
There is a group of Christians who believe that God set up a place of Eternal Torment. The image I was going for was that this group was like a ship, a ship that I believe is sinking because it is unsound. The firm traditionalists are staying on this sinking ship no matter what, but they are alarmed that so many Christians are deserting this sinking ship.
 
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Montalban

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There is a group of Christians who believe that God set up a place of Eternal Torment. The image I was going for was that this group was like a ship, a ship that I believe is sinking because it is unsound. The firm traditionalists are staying on this sinking ship no matter what, but they are alarmed that so many Christians are deserting this sinking ship.

Sorry, I don't know what a 'firm traditionalist' is either.

I believe in hell, however it's the state of being 'we' choose by disobeying God.

God accepts our decision to accept or reject him, and if we reject him there are real consequences.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Timothew

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Sorry, I don't know what a 'firm traditionalist' is either.

I believe in hell, however it's the state of being 'we' choose by disobeying God.

God accepts our decision to accept or reject him, and if we reject him there are real consequences.
A firm traditionalist is one who holds to tradition even if all of scripture opposes him. In this case, a firm traditionalist is a person who believes there is a hell of eternal torture even though the bible specifically states that the wages of sin is death, NOT eternal torture.
 
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