• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Hell or the lake of fire?

eartheart

Active Member
Nov 22, 2015
104
16
41
✟23,261.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Hebrews says that our God is a consuming fire, revelations says that all sinners will have a part in the eternal lake of fire (not that they will be eternal in it as well but have a part). My understanding is that in my case I was an athiest and I felt tortured before being touched by the Holy Spirit, thus my former separation from Lord was in a sense a PART of the eternal lake of fire. I still have not read where the orthodox gets the claim that sinners will burn forever in hell if hell and death is to be cast into the lake of fire - that is by grace sinners will have a part or a taste of hell before repenting and accepting their lord and savior Jesus, though some may not taste death God wills that all his children be saved from hell.
Its a much more understandable then my experience with the Roman Catholic view that made me terrified as a child and kept me away from church. Without that experience though I might not have ever paid attention when the lord came knocking on my door.
What are your views on hell and death being tossed into the eternal lake of fire when Christ returns?
Is hell according to orthodox belief, really the same as what the Bible teaches?
 

AlexDTX

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 13, 2015
4,191
2,817
✟351,434.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
No, Hell and the Lake of Fire are two different things. Hell is jail, the Lake of Fire is execution. God will not put anyone into the Lake of Fire until after they have been judged and proven guilty at the White Throne Judgement. Once that is done for everyone who rejects the salvation freely given to all who will accept it, then the jail will be tossed into the Lake of Fire with Satan and his demons and the people who chose Satan over Jesus.

The two have become synonyms because after the Resurrection of our Lord, no believer went to Hell but to Heaven. So only all who die without Christ will be retained in Hell reserved for the White Throne Judgement and the Lake of Fire.

What this means is that before Jesus, everyone went to Hell. But those who died in faith of the coming Messiah were released when Jesus descended into Hell to set the captives free when he proclaimed the good news that redemption had been fulfilled.
 
Upvote 0

smithed64

To Die is gain, To Live is Christ
Site Supporter
Feb 2, 2013
808
279
Chattanooga, Tennessee
✟86,497.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
Hell is a place of eternal fire and punishment
Unquenchable Fire
Matt. 3:12 "And His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Fiery Hell
Matt. 5:22, "whoever shall say, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell." See also, Matt. 5:29, 30.

Fiery Hell
Matt. 18:8-9, "And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire. 9 "And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out, and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than having two eyes, to be cast into the fiery hell."

Eternal Fire
Matt. 25:41, "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels."

Eternal Punishment
Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

The word "eternal" in both places is "aionios" which means 1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be; 2) without beginning; 3) without end, never to cease, everlasting. The word "punishment" is the word "kolasis" and it means "to punish, with the implication of resulting severe suffering--'to punish, punishment.'"5

Eternal Fire
Jude 7, "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire."

Thrown into the lake of Fire
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Lake of Fire
Rev. 20:15, "And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

And this happened before Christ crucified.

Luke 16:19-31, Lazarus and the Rich Man
In Luke 16:19-31 is the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Basically, Lazarus is a poor man who suffers during life. The rich man is, of course, rich. They both die. The rich man goes to Hades. Lazarus goes to Abraham's bosom, another term for paradise. In Hades, the rich man lifts up his eyes and sees Lazarus far off. He cries out to Abraham and asks for mercy because he is in agony in flame. Abraham says no. Then the rich man asks if someone from the dead were to rise and go tell his brothers not to come to this terrible place. Abraham teaches him that that will not be done either.

Some say that this is a parable. However, if it is, it is unique because no other parable actually names a person. It isn't a story. It is history. It really happened. But many who believe in no consciousness after death will say it is still a parable. The question is then if it is a parable, what is it teaching? If hell fire is false and if self-awareness after death is also false, then Jesus is using false doctrines to teach a truth. Parables illustrate truth. If it is a parable, what does the consciousness after death symbolize? Also, what does the agony in flame symbolize? Are they not real? Of course they are.

Conclusion
Hell is a real place. It is not mere unconsciousness. It is not temporal. It is eternal torment. Perhaps that is why Jesus spoke more of hell than heaven and spent so much time warning people not to go there. After all, if people just stopped existing, why warn them? If it was temporal, they'd get out in a while. But if it were eternal and conscious, then the warning is strong.

Jesus said, "And if your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 "And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into hell." (Matt. 5:29-30).
 
Upvote 0

victorinus

catholic
May 15, 2016
1,990
314
usa
✟49,922.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
What are your views on hell and death being tossed into the eternal lake of fire when Christ returns?
I believe in the second death
-and-
do not understand how anyone can believe in eternal suffering
 
  • Like
Reactions: jasonwrites
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,522
16,853
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟772,040.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I believe in the second death
Biblical definition of "death:" Separation from God. (not necessarily the cessation of consciousness)
 
Upvote 0

1W7

Active Member
Oct 13, 2016
43
6
52
Florida
✟35,625.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
...
-and-
do not understand how anyone can believe in eternal suffering

I believe in it because I believe that it is what the Bible teaches. To me it appears to be the plain / straightforward teaching of the Bible about it. To see it as anything else, such as annihilation, it seems to me that one would have to first take the position of not believing, comprehending, etc. that God would do this (eternal suffering), and then try to see if what the Bible says about it can be made to fit that view.
 
Upvote 0

victorinus

catholic
May 15, 2016
1,990
314
usa
✟49,922.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I believe in it because I believe that it is what the Bible teaches. To me it appears to be the plain / straightforward teaching of the Bible about it. To see it as anything else, such as annihilation, it seems to me that one would have to first take the position of not believing, comprehending, etc. that God would do this (eternal suffering), and then try to see if what the Bible says about it can be made to fit that view.
if you believe in eternal suffering
-either-
you believe God wants it that way
-or-
you believe God cannot do anything about it
 
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,522
16,853
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟772,040.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,522
16,853
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟772,040.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I use the dictionary for the definition of words
-and-
I believe the bible translators do the same
In that case I hope you are fluent in and have proper dictionaries for the biblical Hebrew and Greek used in writing the texts.

Something is ALWAYS lost when it is translated.
 
Upvote 0

1W7

Active Member
Oct 13, 2016
43
6
52
Florida
✟35,625.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
if you believe in eternal suffering
-either-
you believe God wants it that way
-or-
you believe God cannot do anything about it

In saying this, you have committed the fallacy of bifurcation (AKA the either-or fallacy and the false dilemma).
 
Upvote 0

Lazarus Short

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2016
2,934
3,009
75
Independence, Missouri, USA
✟301,642.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
In that case I hope you are fluent in and have proper dictionaries for the biblical Hebrew and Greek used in writing the texts.

Something is ALWAYS lost when it is translated.

Sometimes, something is ADDED. In the Bible, sheol, hades, tartarus and gehenna were all translated into hell in the KJV. I looked into when sheol was translated as grave or pit, and when it was translated as hell. I found that when context was clearly that of the real world, sheol was rendered as grave or pit. When context allowed, sheol was rendered as hell. The translators were not completely consistent, however.

I also looked into the history of the word, and found that hell is from the ancient languages of pagan northern Europe. For instance, Hel was the pagan goddess or ogress of the Norse underworld, and this underworld was also known as Hel, or Helheim (house of Hel). So Hel is pagan, but Hell is Christian. Makes you wonder, yes? I concluded that Hell, the word, and Hell the theology arrived in Christianity together as the faith spread from the Hebrews (sheol) to the Greeks (hades) to the Romans (infernus) to the pagans of northern Europe (hel, helle, helja, etc). The OED dates the first use of Hell at 825 AD.
 
Upvote 0

victorinus

catholic
May 15, 2016
1,990
314
usa
✟49,922.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
In that case I hope you are fluent in and have proper dictionaries for the biblical Hebrew and Greek used in writing the texts.

Something is ALWAYS lost when it is translated.
many get lost in the bible
 
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,522
16,853
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟772,040.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Sometimes, something is ADDED. In the Bible, sheol, hades, tartarus and gehenna were all translated into hell in the KJV.
Even an "addition" is a loss of original understanding.
 
Upvote 0

Hillsage

One 4 Him & Him 4 all
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2009
5,261
1,768
The land of OZ
✟345,480.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
http://www.bible.ca/d-death=separation.htm

I do not have time to re type and reformat all the gridwork.
This is the answer to my question also then. And we respond with go to some websites and refute all they say proving the opposite. Touche.

Below are just a couple which I believe will prove to be of interesting reading to any who are truly seeking 'the truth'.

http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/
http://www.tentmaker.org/
http://www.evangelicaluniversalist.com/forum/
 
Upvote 0