Hell is Payback

[ClementofA]

And what did Paul say?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
(9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
(10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21
(19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
(20) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
(21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5
(5) For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.​

Where does Paul ever qualify his warnings about who cannot enter the kingdom of God by saying "not until they repent & cease being unrighteous?" I can't seem to find that qualification anywhere in Paul's writings. Do you suppose that Paul forgot to put that in and that is why unis today have to interject that into every one of Paul's warnings?

It's right in front of your eyes, if you read the next verse after those you quoted:

1 Cor 6:9-11

"Know ye not that THE UNRIGHTEOUS shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

"And SUCH WERE SOME OF YOU: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

As a commentator says:

"Wait a minute. If the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God, why does Paul say "and such were some of you?" If they were unrighteous, then how did they inherit the kingdom?"

"They had to be cleansed first, of course. As long as anyone is not cleansed, they have no part inside. But once cleansed, they they entered the kingdom."

---------------------------------



"Jesus loves you. Jesus will make sure you burn forever if you don't love him back. Jesus is the savior of the world. Jesus will not actually save most people. Jesus is a strong victor and a king. Jesus can't overcome resistance to his will. Jesus tells you to love your enemies. Jesus will torture his own. Are you tired of confusion? Are you tired of fear?"
Merciful Truth : Eternal Torment, Godly Love?

 

[ClementofA]

What do you think Hebrews 6:4-6 means?
"...impossible...if they fall away, to renew them to repentance..."

In Acts 14:8 we read of a lame man who was unable to walk. It was impossible for him to walk. The same Greek word is used for "impossible" as in Hebrews 6. While it was impossible for the man to walk or cure himself of his inability to walk, it was possible with God's help. In verses 9-10 he was healed.

"Read how the same Greek word for impossible "adunatos" is used in Matthew 19:26, Mark 10:27 and Luke 18:27. In Acts 14:8, Romans 8:3, and Romans 15:1 it is interpreted as "weak", "could not do" and "impotent." Using a strict literal method without proper CONTEXT has resulted in much ridiculous religious dogmatism regarding this verse."

"The word 'impossible' here has the same force as in Matt. 19:26, where it is said to be impossible for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. In reply to the apostles' question, "who, then, can be saved?" Jesus said: "With men it is impossible, but with God everything is possible." This can be restated as, "With men it is hard but everything is easy with God."

"Calmet says: "Paul by no means intended to exclude sincere repentance for forgiveness of sin which we commit after being saved." Rosenmuller, a celebrated German theologian says: "The Greek word for impossible 'Adunatos' in this place does not mean absolutely impossible. It means nearly impossible but not absolutely impossible."

Heb.10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Stoning to death is not a very sore or longlasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the eternal hell believing Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.

Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed the wicked would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death. Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an unfeeling terminator machine or sadist who abandons forever the beings He created in His own image & likeness so easily.

Heb.1:2a in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all

Heb.1:3b When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high

Heb.2:2b every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty

Heb.2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,

15 And might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives.

-------------------------------


Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

Universalism – The Truth Shall Make You Free

Eternity in the Bible by Gerry Beauchemin – Hope Beyond Hell

 

[ClementofA]

All men are "in Adam" since all men are literal, physical descendants of Adam but all men are not "in Christ"​

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive... 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son
also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

v.22 doesn't say "in Christ" all - are - alive.

v.22 does say "in Christ" all SHALL BE made alive.

You said, "One must be "in Christ" to be saved by Him."

AS in Adam ALL die
SO ALSO in Christ shall ALL be made alive.

Revelation 21:4-8
(4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
(5) And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
(6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
(7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
(8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

One continuous narrative. Not an out-of-context verse here and there. Verse 4, "no more death," Vs. 5, "I make all things new," vs. 6, "It is done." vs. 8 six groups of people still being thrown into the lake of fire.

.....More verses which show that the LoF is not synonymous with death or destruction. Rev 21:4 says “there shall be no more death” but 4 verses later Rev 21:8 says certain groups
“shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” If vs. 4 is correct then those mentioned in vs. 8 do not die.

According to you v.4 proves there is no more death anywhere in the universe, including the lake of fire. Then you should also believe v.4 proves there is no more pain anywhere in the universe, including the lake of fire.

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." (Revelation 21:4)

Let us read Revelation.
Revelation 21:4-8
(4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
(5) And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
(6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
(7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
(8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Verse 4 "no more death", vs. 5 "I make all things new." But in vs. 8 there are still groups of people being thrown into the lake of fire which is the second death.

Verse 4 speaks of no more death & pain? Do you suppose that refers to the whole universe, including the lake of fire? Or just the New Jerusalem.

Death will be abolished (1 Cor.15:26) when all the dead in the lake of fire are made alive in Christ (v.22) and God becomes all in all (v28).

"Just as surely as the abolition of slavery entails freedom for those formerly enslaved, the abolition of death entails life for those formerly dead."

AS in Adam ALL die SO ALSO in Christ shall ALL be made alive (1 Cor.15:22)

1 Cor 15:28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Rev.21:5 And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” And He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”

Is "all" already made completely new (21:5), immortal & incorruptible when nations still need healing from the leaves of trees (22:2; Ezek.47:12)? Has death and reigning been abolished (1 Cor.15:24-26) while reigning continues (22:3-5 & 21:23,24)? No.

"AS in Adam ALL die
SO ALSO in Christ shall ALL be made alive.
BUT each in his own order:

1. Christ the Firstfruit;

2. Then they that are Christ's, at His coming;

3. Then cometh the end [order], WHEN He shall deliver
up the kingdom to God, even the Father; WHEN He shall
have abolished ALL rule and ALL authority and power.
For He must reign. TILL He hath put all His enemies
under His feet. THE LAST ENEMY THAT SHALL BE ABOLISHED
IS DEATH. (1 Cor. 15:22-26, R.V.)."

"...But each in his own order. Not a "but" of exception,
rather a "but" of order. ALL are to be made alive but at
different times. "Each in his own order." Three orders
are enumerated and located in relation to other events:

1. Christ the Firstfruit — Three days alter His death.

2. Then those who are Christ's — At His coming.

3. Then the end [order] — WHEN He shall deliver up the
kingdom."

"It is the third or "end" order that many overlook. A
thoughtful reading of this passage will enable most be-
lievers to see clearly that the words "then cometh the
end" refer to this end order to be made alive. The sub-
ject the apostle is elucidating is: The order in which
all who die in Adam will be made alive in Christ (vs. 22-
24). Christ the firstfruit (order one) and those who
are Christ's at His coming (order two) comprise only
a small part of the all who die in Adam. A third order
is necessary to make all alive. To refer the "end" to
anything else is to ignore the context and to introduce
something foreign to the subject. It cannot possibly
refer to an end of the kingdom, for though the kingdom
will be "delivered up" to the Father (1 Cor. 15:24), it
will never end (Luke 1:33)."

"Four statements in this passage indicate that the
words "then cometh the end" refer to the making alive
of an end order.

1. "As in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made
alive. But each in his own order" (vs. 22. 23).

2. "The last enemy that shall be abolished is death" (vs. 26).
It is the making alive of ALL that will abolish death. As long
as any remain dead, death has not been abolished.

3. "When all things have been subjected unto the Son" (vs.27, 28). The dead must ALL be made alive if all are to be subjected unto the Son. The only exception in this subjection is God the Father.

4. "That God may be All in all" (vs. 28). This requires that all be made alive. As long as any remain dead God cannot be ALL in ALL, for He is not the God of the dead (Luke 20:37, 38)."

Christian universalism--Ultimate Reconcilation: The True "Good News" Gospel of the Bible

 

[ClementofA]

The chains are eternal-everlasting, but the darkness part is unto the judgment time.

They get out of the chains at the day of judgement.

You have told us that Rev. 5:13 is like having the missing chapter -23 of Revelation. Do not see how you can tell people this, as in that verse -there is a sea.
After chapter 21 - when the new earth has been created -there will not be a part as to -sea.

Rev. 21 -there was no more sea
now your idea as to a chapter 23 out of Rev. 5:13 would add a sea part back in

every creature....on the earth......are in the sea

John speaks of a "door open in heaven" and a voice telling him to "come up here" (Rev.4:1). Then he says "I was in the Spirit" (4:2) and at length describes things & events in heaven. From this heavenly perspective "in the Spirit" is revealed to him what is detailed in chapter 5. Everyone in the universe, including the dead and demons, are worshipping the Lamb. This worship (v.13) uses the same worshipful words as the redeemed of vs 9-10 use in v.12. All this being in the context of salvation - "the Lamb that was slain" (v.12 & 13).

That is a description of all saved, including those in heaven, on & under the earth, on the sea, & all that is in them, making it crystal clear that no one is excluded. Were all actually doing this in John's time many centuries ago? No. But God calls those things not being as being (Rom.4:17) and sees the end from the beginning (Isa.46:10). He gives this vision of the salvation of all to John. Lest any say that it is a vision of the saved in the new earth after the wicked have been annihilated, he includes a reference to the sea, so it is clear he is talking about every being who had ever existed, Satan included.

This includes everyone in the universe, including the dead and demons:

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

John speaks of "every creature" & to emphasize this again he repeats "and all that are in them":

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

This worship (v.13) uses the same worshipful words as the redeemed of vs 9-10 use in v.12:

12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

All this being in the context of salvation - "the Lamb that was slain" (v.12 & 13).

Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism

 

[Oldmantook]

Only the narrow path/gate area will lead to life.
At the time of the new earth - on sabbath/s and new moons-the just will have to go out and view the wicked dead bodies - that have worms that do not ever die.
No one is resurrected out of the lake of fire.
We are told in Psalms that a pit will be digged for the wicked. It seems to be in the land of Edom, as that location will become burning pitch and be called the border of wickedness. The just go out to look upon those -where their worm dieth not and their fire is not quenched.

I believe this is how God will keep sin out of His kingdom for the future. The just will be consistently seeing what happens to the souls of those that went against God.

So you just might want to explain how the kings of the earth who enter the lake of fire are allowed to enter into the New Jerusalm. In the Book of Revelation, the phrase "kings of the earth" appears 7 times in Rev 6:15; 17:2,18; 18:3,9; 19:19; 21:24. In all but the last citation the kings of the earth are portrayed in Revelation as aligned with Mystery Babylon and are the enemies of God. Yet, in 21:24 we find that the "kings of the earth" will one day bring their splendor into the New Jerusalem. One must therefore ask how or why are the kings of the earth who are consistently and without exception portrayed in Revelation as evil and unrepentant, allowed into the New Jerusalem where "nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life" (21:27). To me it appears that even the kings of the earth after having spent some unknown time in the lake of fire will one day repent and be allowed to enter into the New Jerusalem.

 

[Der Alte]

So you just might want to explain how the kings of the earth who enter the lake of fire are allowed to enter into the New Jerusalm. In the Book of Revelation, the phrase "kings of the earth" appears 7 times in Rev 6:15; 17:2,18; 18:3,9; 19:19; 21:24. In all but the last citation the kings of the earth are portrayed in Revelation as aligned with Mystery Babylon and are the enemies of God. Yet, in 21:24 we find that the "kings of the earth" will one day bring their splendor into the New Jerusalem. One must therefore ask how or why are the kings of the earth who are consistently and without exception portrayed in Revelation as evil and unrepentant, allowed into the New Jerusalem where "nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life" (21:27). To me it appears that even the kings of the earth after having spent some unknown time in the lake of fire will one day repent and be allowed to enter into the New Jerusalem.

Anybody can prove almost anything by selectively quoting verses out-of-context. So let us read a few more verses.

Revelation 21:4-8
(4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
(5) And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
(6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
(7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
(8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

Verse 4 "no more death," vs. 5 "I make all things new,", vs. 6, "it is done" but in vs. there are still groups of people being thrown into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:24
(24) And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.​

In context this vs. says the nations which are saved shall walk in the light of the new Jerusalem. Will God allow kings who are not saved to enter?

Rev 22:11-12
(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
(12) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.​

 

[ClementofA]

.....More verses which show that the LoF is not synonymous with death or destruction. Rev 21:4 says “there shall be no more death” but 4 verses later Rev 21:8 says certain groups
“shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” If vs. 4 is correct then those mentioned in vs. 8 do not die.

According to you v.4 proves there is no more death anywhere in the universe, including the lake of fire. Then you should also believe v.4 proves there is no more pain anywhere in the universe, including the lake of fire.

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." (Revelation 21:4)

Let us read Revelation.
Revelation 21:4-8
(4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
(5) And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
(6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
(7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
(8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Verse 4 "no more death", vs. 5 "I make all things new." But in vs. 8 there are still groups of people being thrown into the lake of fire which is the second death.

Verse 4 speaks of no more death & pain? Do you suppose that refers to the whole universe, including the lake of fire? Or just the New Jerusalem.

Death will be abolished (1 Cor.15:26) when all the dead in the lake of fire are made alive in Christ (v.22) and God becomes all in all (v28).

"Just as surely as the abolition of slavery entails freedom for those formerly enslaved, the abolition of death entails life for those formerly dead."

AS in Adam ALL die SO ALSO in Christ shall ALL be made alive (1 Cor.15:22)

1 Cor 15:28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Rev.21:5 And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” And He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”

Is "all" already made completely new (21:5), immortal & incorruptible when nations still need healing from the leaves of trees (22:2; Ezek.47:12)? Has death and reigning been abolished (1 Cor.15:24-26) while reigning continues (22:3-5 & 21:23,24)? No.

"AS in Adam ALL die
SO ALSO in Christ shall ALL be made alive.
BUT each in his own order:

1. Christ the Firstfruit;

2. Then they that are Christ's, at His coming;

3. Then cometh the end [order], WHEN He shall deliver
up the kingdom to God, even the Father; WHEN He shall
have abolished ALL rule and ALL authority and power.
For He must reign. TILL He hath put all His enemies
under His feet. THE LAST ENEMY THAT SHALL BE ABOLISHED
IS DEATH. (1 Cor. 15:22-26, R.V.)."

"...But each in his own order. Not a "but" of exception,
rather a "but" of order. ALL are to be made alive but at
different times. "Each in his own order." Three orders
are enumerated and located in relation to other events:

1. Christ the Firstfruit — Three days alter His death.

2. Then those who are Christ's — At His coming.

3. Then the end [order] — WHEN He shall deliver up the
kingdom."

"It is the third or "end" order that many overlook. A
thoughtful reading of this passage will enable most be-
lievers to see clearly that the words "then cometh the
end" refer to this end order to be made alive. The sub-
ject the apostle is elucidating is: The order in which
all who die in Adam will be made alive in Christ (vs. 22-
24). Christ the firstfruit (order one) and those who
are Christ's at His coming (order two) comprise only
a small part of the all who die in Adam. A third order
is necessary to make all alive. To refer the "end" to
anything else is to ignore the context and to introduce
something foreign to the subject. It cannot possibly
refer to an end of the kingdom, for though the kingdom
will be "delivered up" to the Father (1 Cor. 15:24), it
will never end (Luke 1:33)."

"Four statements in this passage indicate that the
words "then cometh the end" refer to the making alive
of an end order.

1. "As in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made
alive. But each in his own order" (vs. 22. 23).

2. "The last enemy that shall be abolished is death" (vs. 26).
It is the making alive of ALL that will abolish death. As long
as any remain dead, death has not been abolished.

3. "When all things have been subjected unto the Son" (vs.27, 28). The dead must ALL be made alive if all are to be subjected unto the Son. The only exception in this subjection is God the Father.

4. "That God may be All in all" (vs. 28). This requires that all be made alive. As long as any remain dead God cannot be ALL in ALL, for He is not the God of the dead (Luke 20:37, 38)."

Christian universalism--Ultimate Reconcilation: The True "Good News" Gospel of the Bible

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

Universalism – The Truth Shall Make You Free

Eternity in the Bible by Gerry Beauchemin – Hope Beyond Hell

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Oldmantook]

Anybody can prove almost anything by selectively quoting verses out-of-context. So let us read a few more verses.

Revelation 21:4-8
(4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
(5) And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
(6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
(7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
(8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

Verse 4 "no more death," vs. 5 "I make all things new,", vs. 6, "it is done" but in vs. there are still groups of people being thrown into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:24
(24) And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.​

In context this vs. says the nations which are saved shall walk in the light of the new Jerusalem. Will God allow kings who are not saved to enter?

Rev 22:11-12
(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
(12) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.​

Despite all your musings, you still have not bothered to explain how or why the kings of the earth are allowed entry into the New Jerusalem.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[ClementofA]

Rev 21:24
(24) And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
In context this vs. says the nations which are saved shall walk in the light of the new Jerusalem. Will God allow kings who are not saved to enter?

Who but the KJV & a few of its clones has the word "saved"?

"We must omit, with the best MSS., the words “of them which are saved,” and read, And the nations shall walk by means of its light, and the kings of the earth carry their glory into her..."

"in—A, B, Vulgate, Coptic, and Andreas read "(the nations shall walk) by means of her light": omitting "of them which are saved..." "

"of them which are saved] Should be omitted."

Revelation 21:24 Commentaries: The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Oldmantook]

There will be lots of ancient kings in the lake of fire. They will not be resurrected out of there. Their bodies will be looked upon after the new earth is here. Only those in the book of life -their names written will enter into the holy city of New Jerusalem.

I've not referred to "lots of ancient kings." I'm only referring to those mentioned in Revelation; therefore your point is not relevant.

 

[Der Alte]

Who but the KJV & a few of its clones has the word "saved"?
"We must omit, with the best MSS., the words “of them which are saved,” and read, And the nations shall walk by means of its light, and the kings of the earth carry their glory into her..."
"in—A, B, Vulgate, Coptic, and Andreas read "(the nations shall walk) by means of her light": omitting "of them which are saved..." "
"of them which are saved] Should be omitted."

Sin problema amigo. Let us read the out-of-context uni proof text in context.

Revelation 21:4-8
(4) 'He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death' or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."
(5) He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
(6) He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.
(7) Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.
(8) But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."​

Vs. 4 "no more death," vs. 5 "I am making all things new," vs. 6 "it is done." vs. 8, eight groups of people being thrown into the lake of fire. I would say after that there are no more evil people left in the world so the nations and kings in vs, 24 are righteous.

Revelation 21:24
(24) The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it.​

 

[ClementofA]

You cannot use Rev. 5:13 as a verse for how it will be after the new earth is here. - there will not be a sea part.

Rev. 5:13 "...and such as...in the sea..."

John speaks of a "door open in heaven" and a voice telling him to "come up here" (Rev.4:1). Then he says "I was in the Spirit" (4:2) and at length describes things & events in heaven. From this heavenly perspective "in the Spirit" is revealed to him what is detailed in chapter 5. Everyone in the universe, including the dead and demons, are worshipping the Lamb. This worship (v.13) uses the same worshipful words as the redeemed of vs 9-10 use in v.12. All this being in the context of salvation - "the Lamb that was slain" (v.12 & 13).

That is a description of all saved, including those in heaven, on & under the earth, on the sea, & all that is in them, making it crystal clear that no one is excluded. Were all actually doing this in John's time many centuries ago? No. But God calls those things not being as being (Rom.4:17) and sees the end from the beginning (Isa.46:10). He gives this vision of the salvation of all to John. Lest any say that it is a vision of the saved in the new earth after the wicked have been annihilated, he includes a reference to the sea, so it is clear he is talking about every being who had ever existed, Satan included.

This includes everyone in the universe, including the dead and demons:

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

John speaks of "every creature" & to emphasize this again he repeats "and all that are in them":

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

This worship (v.13) uses the same worshipful words as the redeemed of vs 9-10 use in v.12:

12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

All this being in the context of salvation - "the Lamb that was slain" (v.12 & 13).

Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[ClementofA]

Those that die as unrighteous will not enter into the kingdom of God. They died in their sins. Right now, God is longsuffering willing that none perish, but the day will come when there will be a new earth and some will go into the lake of fire. There bodies are carcasses shown at the end of Isaiah 66. To be people again -would require that they be raised from the 2nd death.

There is no mention of "eternal death" in the Scriptures.

More like the opposite: death will be abolished (1 Cor.15:26).

Not immortalized.

"Just as surely as the abolition of slavery entails freedom for those formerly enslaved, the abolition of death entails life for those formerly dead."

AS in Adam ALL die SO ALSO in Christ shall ALL be made alive (1 Cor.15:22)

1 Cor 15:28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm