Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

[walter45]

First I need to know what verses you are quoting. Your first post did not include any only commentary. The main verse that I would quote would be Matt. 25:46 which contrasts eternal punishment with eternal life so this is not a verse that you can ignore.

The Bible explains these ones: shall be cut off, will be no more, will not be found, shall vanish away, be destroyed, will perish. but the one not obeying the Son will not see life, everlasting contempt, Plus Jesus says only few are finding life, not everyone finds life.
--Matthew 7:13-14

For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. --Psalm 37:95
King James Bible

Yet a little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found. --Psalm 37:10 Berean Standard Bible

New King James Version
But the wicked shall perish; And the enemies of the LORD, Like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away. --Psalm 37:20

For the wicked will be destroyed, but those who trust in the LORD will possess the land.--Psalm 37:9 New Living Translation

Those who do evil will perish. But those who wait on the LORD will inherit the land. --Psalm 37:9 International Standard Version

John 3:36
The one believing in the Son has eternal life, but the one not obeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." Berean literal Bible

Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. New King James Version

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it. --Matthew 7:13-14
Berean Standard Bible

=============================================================================================================

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. NIV

Mark 9:43
And if your hand should cause you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter into life crippled, than having two hands to go away into Gehenna, into the unquenchable fire. Berean Literal Bible

Is Gehenna, Sodom and Gomorrah eternally on fire? No. If the fire has stopped has not the torment stopped also?

Shouldn't every scripture be important to our understanding?

 

[JulieB67]

1. Because my logic includes every scripture on a Bible topic, not just a few scriptures that obviously do not agree with the other scriptures throughout the Bible.

2. Everlasting life is a consistent teaching in the Bible, and there are no scriptures that explain it is only figurative or symbolic.

When some scriptures disagree with other scriptures, would that be the correct understanding? Especially when we discover the Eternal fire is not eternal.

Exactly. This is my point in that we need to take the Bible as a whole.

 

[Jipsah]

Already did. You missed it.

As they say in England, "Right."

 

[Jipsah]

Either both are eternal or none are. The Greek proves that both are. The first in the equation get eternal punishment. One can’t get eternal punishment if one is dead.

Arrant rubbish; you're just reciting the docgtrine you believe now.

Malachi 4 speaks nothing about death although the mention of chaff and ashes might seem to.

Yeah, it could be about live chaff and ashes.

I mentioned Heb. 6 because it teaches that the judgement is eternal.

Yep Death is eternal. The Gift of God is Eternal Life. You say that everybody has eternal life by default. Scripture does not. Your doctrine is rubish.

The second death is indeed eternal.

Make up your mind, matey. Either everyone lives forever or only those who have been granted eternal life as a gift from God.

 

[Jipsah]

Already did. You missed it.

What post number was that?

 

[Jipsah]

So you don't believe in death at all?

That's the bottom line line, innit? Thoose folks don't belive that there is any such thing as actual death.. Everybody lives forever either in bliss or in torment.

Is that what you're stating? Even though Christ states fear the one that can destroy both body and soul in hell.

Yeah, but that's another of those "Oh, but what that really means is..." deals where you just replace whatever Scripture says with whatever doctrinal believe that you prefer. Very handy.

It's easier when we take the bible as a whole on this subject.

That can be very inconvenient, though.

 

[Hentenza]

What post number was that?

383 and 386

 

[Hentenza]

Arrant rubbish; you're just reciting the docgtrine you believe now.

So refute it. Your reaction here doesn’t count.

 

[Hentenza]

The Bible explains these ones: shall be cut off, will be no more, will not be found, shall vanish away, be destroyed, will perish. but the one not obeying the Son will not see life, everlasting contempt, Plus Jesus says only few are finding life, not everyone finds life.
--Matthew 7:13-14

Thanks for posting the verses which allows us to analyze the interpretations of the verses. I am going to assume that your commentary here is general and does not relate to Matt 7:13-14.

““Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is narrow and the way is constricted that leads to life, and there are few who find it.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 7:13-14 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is narrow and the way is constricted that lea | New American Standard Bible - N

“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is narrow and the way is constricted that lea

bible.com

These verses are part of the sermon on the mount. The audience here is His disciples and a primarily Jewish audience with some gentiles mixed in since Jesus had just come from Galilee, Judea, and Jerusalem where He had healed some suffering from illnesses. At this point in His ministry Jesus was still preaching primarily to the Jews and was still away from the crucifixion. Since He is still preaching the law and the prophets (verse 12) verses 13 and 14 give the current state of the chance for salvation prior to the Gospel of Good News. Since salvation is by faith not by the works (Abraham’s salvation for example) of the law the gate is indeed narrow. But these verses do not satisfy your initial commentary.

For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. --Psalm 37:95
King James Bible

This is actually verse 9. Cut off does not mean annihilated but basically means that the evil doers will be cut off from inheriting the earth.

Yet a little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found. --Psalm 37:10 Berean Standard Bible

“Yet a little while and the wicked person will be no more; And you will look carefully for his place and he will not be there. But the humble will inherit the land And will delight themselves in abundant prosperity.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭37‬:‭10‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Psalm 37:10-11 Yet a little while and the wicked person will be no more; And you will look carefully for his place and he will not be there. But the humble will inherit the land And will delight themselves in abunda | New American Standard Bible - NA

Yet a little while and the wicked person will be no more; And you will look carefully for his place and he will not be there. But the humble will inherit the land And will delight themselves in abunda

bible.com

Th wicked will not be found because they will not inherit the land and his place will no longer be there. Nothing here about being annihilated.

New King James Version
But the wicked shall perish; And the enemies of the LORD, Like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away. --Psalm 37:20

“They will not be ashamed in the time of evil, And in the days of famine they will have plenty. But the wicked will perish; And the enemies of the Lord will be like the glory of the pastures, They vanish—like smoke they vanish away.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭37‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Psalm 37:19-20 They will not be ashamed in the time of evil, And in the days of famine they will have plenty. But the wicked will perish; And the enemies of the LORD will be like the glory of the pastures, They vani | New American Standard Bible - NA

They will not be ashamed in the time of evil, And in the days of famine they will have plenty. But the wicked will perish; And the enemies of the LORD will be like the glory of the pastures, They vani

bible.com

These are the days of famine but they will perish nonetheless. Dying of hunger is not annihilation.

For the wicked will be destroyed, but those who trust in the LORD will possess the land.--Psalm 37:9 New Living Translation

Destroyed does not mean annihilated. To give you an example from their time, a wineskin can be “destroyed“ by bursting but it is still there, just in a ruined state.

Those who do evil will perish. But those who wait on the LORD will inherit the land. --Psalm 37:9 International Standard Version

Answered above.

John 3:36
The one believing in the Son has eternal life, but the one not obeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." Berean literal Bible

I’m not sure what you are trying to say here. Those not obeying the Son will indeed not see life and the wrath of God abides ( remains) in them. This verse does not help your case.

Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. New King James Version

This is a prophesy of the end of times and it reads almost like the verse in Revelation. Everlasting contempt is not annihilation since one has to be alive to suffer “everlasting” (for ever) contempt. Again, this verse does not help you.

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it. --Matthew 7:13-14
Berean Standard Bible

Already answered above.

=============================================================================================================

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. NIV

Yep. Pretty straight forward.

Mark 9:43
And if your hand should cause you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter into life crippled, than having two hands to go away into Gehenna, into the unquenchable fire. Berean Literal Bible

Ok. The fire is unquenchable in Hell.

Is Gehenna, Sodom and Gomorrah eternally on fire?

Gehenna is a symbol of hell not hell itself. Gehenna was a nasty place place originally in the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned. It is a fit symbol of the wicked and their future demise. Sodom and Gomorrah were earthly wicked cities destroyed by God. The wicked people that died there have not been resurrected yet but will be at the end of times. If their name is not found in the book of life they will be casted in the lake of fire.

No. If the fire has stopped has not the torment stopped also?

No. The torment has not yet begun. They have not been resurrected yet. The lake of fire is eternal for the devil, the beast and the false prophet and then any one whose name was not found in the book of life was thrown into the same everlasting lake of fire. No annihilation here.

“And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20‬:‭10‬, ‭14‬-‭15‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Revelation 20:10-15 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Then I saw a | New American Standard Bible

And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Then I saw a

bible.com

Shouldn't every scripture be important to our understanding?

Absolutely. I addressed yours so now address mine. I am only going to give you three.

““Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25‬:‭41‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

bible.com

“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for Me, either.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25‬:‭45‬-‭46‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 25:45-46 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for Me, either.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but th | New American Standard Bible -

Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for Me, either.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but th

bible.com

“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and they will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13‬:‭41‬-‭42‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 13:41-42 The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and they will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that pl | New American Standard Bible -

The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and they will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that pl

bible.com

Be blessed.

 

[walter45]

Be blessed.

If we do not include every scripture we can find do we really have a complete understanding?

I respect your viewpoint and will keep your words in mind, I like to list the scriptures that support my belief and read the scriptures other people use to support their beliefs. But it is even more important for me to have Christian love for my neighbor and show kindness at the first opportunity, If you have any ideas on how I can do this better please let me know.

 

[walter45]

..

Scripture only.

For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. --Psalm 37:95
King James Bible

Yet a little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found. --Psalm 37:10 Berean Standard Bible

New King James Version
But the wicked shall perish; And the enemies of the LORD, Like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away. --Psalm 37:20

For the wicked will be destroyed, but those who trust in the LORD will possess the land.--Psalm 37:9 New Living Translation

Those who do evil will perish. But those who wait on the LORD will inherit the land. --Psalm 37:9 International Standard Version

John 3:36
The one believing in the Son has eternal life, but the one not obeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." Berean literal Bible

Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. New King James Version

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it. --Matthew 7:13-14
Berean Standard Bible

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. NIV

Mark 9:43
And if your hand should cause you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter into life crippled, than having two hands to go away into Gehenna, into the unquenchable fire. Berean Literal Bible

 

[Dan1988]

Your zealous promotion of your adopted religious philosophy, and your judgements against me notwithstanding, you asked me a question.

"Can you please show me a single place where I claimed that man is born immortal, I would never make such a silly statement in the first place."

Therefore, I posted two of your statements where you clearly promote the popular religious philosophy that humans are immortal. Some spend immortality in heaven with God, and some spend eternity being tortured with the demons who deceived them. I posted your own words where you preach to others that humans are immortal. I posed the question, if they are not born with immortality, which you and I believe is "Silly", then where did this Immortality that your statements claim they have, come from?

You didn't address the question, which is the most relevant question there is to ask, concerning the teaching that humans are immortal. I wish you had.

For me, I believe Jesus when HE said to "fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in hell fire", but "many", who come in Christ's Name, have chosen not to believe Him. When Jesus says "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise "perish".", I believe Jesus, but "many" who promote the philosophies of this world's religious system don't believe Him.

The Scriptures teach, "The Soul that sins shall die", not the "soul that sins shall be granted immortality, then be tortured fort eternity with the immortal angels that deceived them.

I have considered Lazarus and the Rich man, but not as a verse to separate from the rest of the Bible, and then used to support the teaching that all humans are immortal. But I added this verse with all the other verses concerning the resurrection, and studied them.

A few things you didn't mention, is that the Rich man wasn't cognoscente of the time that had passed between Abraham's resurrection and his. He had remained dead for a 1000 years while Abraham and Lazarus were reigning with Christ after Christ's Return. That's a pretty large "Gulf" that existed between them. This means he didn't know his brothers were dead as well.

Luke 16 consists a group of Parables Jesus taught the people.

You have said in your statements "Death is being separated from God for all eternity, so they experience dying an d death forever while they are fully conscience with all of their feelings intact."

And yet in the Parable of Jesus you use to promote that all men are immortal, the Rich man was in the presence of God, and not only Him, but in the presence of Abraham and Lazarus as well. Surely you can see the contradiction.

Now understand that I believe I are free to adopt and promote whatever religious philosophy you want in my view, and I am only sharing the reasons why I don't believe in this popular religious philosophy, that all men are immortal.

And it is because of consideration of "ALL" Scriptures that I believe this. It is written in the Holy Scriptures:

Deut. 30: 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that "I have set before you" life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed "may live":

This popular religious philosophy that God lied to all these people who chose "Death", and chose instead to give them immortality, and torture them forever along with the immortal angels that deceived them, is an awful and wicked judgment against God, and is not supported by Scriptures, if all of God's Words are considered, in my view.

It would be helpful if you could show us when God granted these men immortality, since you believe it is Silly to suggest they were born with it.

Perhaps I missed it in my studies. If you could show me where God directed Moses and the Prophets to teach us that all men are immortal, I would greatly appreciate it. The way it stands right now in my understanding, "If a man doesn't believe Moses and the Prophets, that the soul that sins "shall die", then neither will they be persuaded by Jesus, who rose from the dead, when HE teaches, "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

I have never made the silly claim that men are immortal, I have asked you to show me where I claimed this and you failed to do so.

My theology is in line with 2000 years of Church history, I don't have any private views or opinions, while your theology is entirely based on your private opinions. Not a single doctrine that you hold to is supported by any scripture, I have asked why you reject what God has said, but you simply refuse to answer the question.

If someone charged me with promoting false doctrines, I wouldn't rest until I either proved my case, or I would seek to be corrected and learn the truth of the matter. But it seems that you're not interested in the truth at all, since you won't reveal why you reject what God has said.

I have asked you to define the meaning of the words "life" and "death", but you have failed to state what you believe they mean. Yet you keep referring to the same few verses, which have these two words in them. But you refuse to state what you think these words actually mean.

You claim that death means "Annihilation" or "cessation of existence", but the Bible never ever describes death in those terms. I asked you to find a singe verse to support your opinion, but you ignore my request and simply refer to the same old verse which say noting of the sort. So I assume you have nothing apart from your private opinion, (which appears to be based on your emotions) rather than Gods Word.

 

[JulieB67]

“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is narrow and the way is constricted that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

This verse does not help your argument at all. Instead it points to once again it's either life or death. Destruction or life.
And when we translate the word "destroy" back to the Hebrew or Greek we should always take the very first meaning unless the context tells us something different. For example it's a huge leap to use the word wineskin as an example verses Christ's own teaching that God can destroy both (fully in the Greek) body and soul in hell. Christ makes it so simple. He doesn't leave any wiggle room- both body and soul in hell. There's a reason it's called the "second death". Perish we know is the same Greek word apollumi. First meaning destroy -fully. When we know that and see all of the verses that use this verse next to the word "life" we can get the full meaning of what is being discussed. You either have life or you don't.

Th wicked will not be found because they will not inherit the land and his place will no longer be there. Nothing here about being annihilated.

Again, I'm sure these verses sum up what will happen to the wicked -


Malachi 4:1 "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave then neither root nor branch.

This would state that yes, the wicked will be not found and no more. God is making it very clear that there will be nothing left.

Destroy in the Hebrew shamad
1. to desolate

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
destruction, bring to nothing, overthrow, perish, pluck down, utterly
A primitive root; to desolate -- destroy(- uction), bring to nought, overthrow, perish, pluck down, X utterly.

Malachi 4:3 "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts."


Psalms 145:20 "The Lord preserveth all them that love Him: But all the wicked will He destroy."

The Lord only preserves those that loves him. But he will destroy all the wicked and bring them to nothing. When we see the verses in Malachi when can then add that context to the meanings of the words perish and destroy. That's how it works. Not just picking out whatever meaning you want (like the wineskin example) because it fits your doctrine. Context matters. When we see that words translated back have multiple meanings you have to apply context so you can arrive at the correct meaning.



Psalms 37:19 "They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: And in the days of famine they shall be satisfied."

The famine for the end times is for hearing the Word of God.

Psalms 37:20 "But the wicked shall perish, And the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: They shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Once again, God can't be any more clear. The wicked will consume away, into smoke, shall they consume away. You can try and work around these verses but again, you put them all together and with Christ's teaching it tells us without a doubt what will happen to the wicked.


Psalms 37:38 "But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: The end of the wicked shall be cut off.

They will simply cease altogether.

 

[Hentenza]

Scripture only.

For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. --Psalm 37:95
King James Bible

Yet a little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found. --Psalm 37:10 Berean Standard Bible

New King James Version
But the wicked shall perish; And the enemies of the LORD, Like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away. --Psalm 37:20

For the wicked will be destroyed, but those who trust in the LORD will possess the land.--Psalm 37:9 New Living Translation

Those who do evil will perish. But those who wait on the LORD will inherit the land. --Psalm 37:9 International Standard Version

John 3:36
The one believing in the Son has eternal life, but the one not obeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." Berean literal Bible

Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. New King James Version

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it. --Matthew 7:13-14
Berean Standard Bible

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. NIV

Mark 9:43
And if your hand should cause you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter into life crippled, than having two hands to go away into Gehenna, into the unquenchable fire. Berean Literal Bible

You didn’t quote any of my post and ignored everything that I posted. I spent time answering your post line by line. Your post here has the same identical verses that I already debunked in my previous post. If you want to have a conversation then have the courtesy to address my post as I addressed yours.

 

[Hentenza]

This verse does not help your argument at all. Instead it points to once again it's either life or death. Destruction or life.

It was not my verse. The poster that I answered quoted it.

And when we translate the word "destroy" back to the Hebrew or Greek we should always take the very first meaning unless the context tells us something different.

Meaning is based on context NOT on whatever meaning you think helps your case better.

For example it's a huge leap to use the word wineskin as an example verses Christ's own teaching that God can destroy both (fully in the Greek) body and soul in hell. Christ makes it so simple. He doesn't leave any wiggle room- both body and soul in hell. There's a reason it's called the "second death". Perish we know is the same Greek word apollumi. First meaning destroy -fully. When we know that and see all of the verses that use this verse next to the word "life" we can get the full meaning of what is being discussed. You either have life or you don't.

No. In light of the verses that I posted after answering the other posters verses your definition of destroy does not work. You guys keep saying to use all of scripture but it does not seem to apply to both of you.

Again, I'm sure these verses sum up what will happen to the wicked -


Malachi 4:1 "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave then neither root nor branch.

This would state that yes, the wicked will be not found and no more. God is making it very clear that there will be nothing left.

Destroy in the Hebrew shamad
1. to desolate

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
destruction, bring to nothing, overthrow, perish, pluck down, utterly
A primitive root; to desolate -- destroy(- uction), bring to nought, overthrow, perish, pluck down, X utterly.

Malachi 4:3 "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts."


Psalms 145:20 "The Lord preserveth all them that love Him: But all the wicked will He destroy."

The Lord only preserves those that loves him. But he will destroy all the wicked and bring them to nothing. When we see the verses in Malachi when can then add that context to the meanings of the words perish and destroy. That's how it works. Not just picking out whatever meaning you want (like the wineskin example) because it fits your doctrine. Context matters. When we see that words translated back have multiple meanings you have to apply context so you can arrive at the correct meaning.



Psalms 37:19 "They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: And in the days of famine they shall be satisfied."

The famine for the end times is for hearing the Word of God.

Psalms 37:20 "But the wicked shall perish, And the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: They shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Once again, God can't be any more clear. The wicked will consume away, into smoke, shall they consume away. You can try and work around these verses but again, you put them all together and with Christ's teaching it tells us without a doubt what will happen to the wicked.


Psalms 37:38 "But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: The end of the wicked shall be cut off.

They will simply cease altogether.

In your opinion and interpretation. Tell me do the wicked cease to exist in the following verse?

““Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25‬:‭41‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

bible.com

After all scripture should agree with scripture, don’t you think?

 

[walter45]

Your post here has the same identical verses that I already debunked in my previous post.

I am not trying to debunk what you believe in, I just want to show why I believe something with scriptures and see why others believe what they believe and the scriptures they put faith in, I don't see any value in debating each word or sentence. I value what the Bible says and the way the Bible explains things.

I listed all those scriptures instead of my own explanation ---------- to let the Bible's words shine above my own words.

After all scripture should agree with scripture, don’t you think?

that's why I post only scripture mostly, then the reader can use all the scriptures to determine what the Bible's view is, instead of my own personal explanation.

I think we both have something in common we both love Jesus and his Father very much. And we love our neighbors as ourselves.
I am sorry if I offended you in any way.

 

[Studyman]

My theology is in line with 2000 years of Church history,

Yes, I agree. The philosophy that a Catholic priest can make water Holy is also in line with 2000 years of Church History. The teaching that mortal men will never die or be destroyed, but will live forever, is also a theology that is in line with many different religions and churches and has for centuries. There are many traditions and philosophies that are in line with "church" history. The Mainstream Preachers of Jesus time also promoted a theology that was inline with thousands of years of "church history".

But what I am advocating is that a man consider what is actually written in the Holy Scriptures. Not just one verse here or there that can be separated from the rest of the Bible, them "wrested" to support whatever religious philosophy that has been adopted. But to consider "Every Word of God" knowing that God doesn't contradict Himself.

What exists that God didn't create, besides Himself? How can I exist "apart from God"? Where does all conscious life come from? Where can I live, that God cannot see me? There is nowhere in the Bible where it is written that God raises a man from the dead who know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished;

And then grant them eternal conscious LIFE to suffer with the same immortal who deceived Eve into believing, "thou shall surely not die".

The God "of the Bible" doesn't sup[port such a theology.

 

[JulieB67]

n your opinion and interpretation. Tell me do the wicked cease to exist in the following verse?

Yes, as I've stated when we take the bible as a whole we can see very clearly what will happen to the wicked. That verse just means that fire is unquenchable by our human standards. But as God states there will be neither root or branch left. They will consume away to ashes. That's what a fire does.

But believe what you will, we shall see....

 

[Lukaris]

I haven’t read every post as the thread is very long but what about what Jesus Christ warns ( 3 times) of in Mark 9:42-48? It is unquenchable fire & the worm does not die. This Lord is 3 times referring back to a single statement from the prophet Isaiah ( Isaiah 66:24). Most Christians have understood this to be a serious warning of everlasting anguish for the condemned.

This seems clearly in line with what would be understood of those redeemed vs those condemned in the universal resurrection like in John 5:22-30, Matthew 25:31-46 etc. I can’t see how any believing Christian in this life doesn’t feel fear & sadness over the condemnation the Lord warns us of.

 

[Hentenza]

Yes, as I've stated when we take the bible as a whole we can see very clearly what will happen to the wicked. That verse just means that fire is unquenchable by our human standards. But as God states there will be neither root or branch left. They will consume away to ashes. That's what a fire does.

But that is not what it says and, frankly, you are ignoring scripture. The unquenchable fire was prepared for the devil and his minions for and the wicked are tossed in the same unquenchable fire to suffer the same fate. Are you arguing that the devil and his minions also are annihilated? That makes no scriptural sense when you consider Rev. 20:10. which plainly states that they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

How about this verse.

“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for Me, either.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25‬:‭45‬-‭46‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 25:45-46 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for Me, either.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but th | New American Standard Bible -

Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for Me, either.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but th

bible.com

The punishment is eternal just as salvation is eternal. And, no, aionios in this context does not mean for a time or for a season.

But believe what you will, we shall see....

I believe what scriptures teach.