Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

[Aseyesee]

Yes, I'm familiar with your formula to avoid reality

Thought is the basis of inward reality ...

 

[Trivalee]

What kind of person deserves eternal tortute as a punishment? No one deserves that and I'd never wish that on anybody.

God is about love and forgiveness. I refuse to believe he would allow such a place like hell to exist, let alone send people there for mistakes.

And the bad people do get punished, because they cease to exist and aren't going to get into heaven, which is a paradise.

No, I won't delete my post because you disagree with it.

God is love, as you pointed out. But his very nature as a loving Father also constrains him to judge those who willfully live in rebellion and reject the free offer of salvation by Jesus Christ. Consider God's relationship with Israel; when they lived in obedience to the law, God prospered and gave them the power to overcome mighty enemies.

But when they rebelled and turned to idolatry, and ignored the warning and pleas from several prophets sent to call them back to God, they ultimately faced the consequences of their error - slaughter and captivity! This is God's judgment of the flesh. The souls of the ungodly will not equally escape eternal judgment unless they repent.

Perhaps these passages will help you understand that the eternal judgment of the ungodly in the Lake of Fire is real and biblical.

Rev 14:9 [AMP] Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “Whoever worships the beast and his image and receives the mark [of the beast] on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he too will [have to] drink of the wine of the wrath of God, [b]mixed undiluted into the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone (flaming sulfur) in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb (Christ). 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night—those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Rev 20:11 [KJV] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Thought is the basis of inward reality ...

So sayeth the gospel of Tony Robbins

 

[Aseyesee]

So sayeth the gospel of Tony Robbins

I think I would have quoted Jesus ...

Through words on a page you have by thought arrived at your own conclusion … which is common to all ...

Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

I think I would have quoted Jesus ...

Except open denials of Jesus' Words being applicable to "you," in Mark 7:21-23 for example

Yes, I'm familiar with such blatant denials and falsehoods "in believers"

Through words on a page you have by thought arrived at your own conclusion … which is common to all ...

I ask for honesty. Seldom obtained. Spin it how you think to avoid the facts of His statements. I don't even blame you for it happening. Common to all, both the fact and denials.

 

[Hentenza]

”“Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, ‘Father, save Me from this hour’? But for this purpose I came to this hour. Father, glorify Your name.” Then a voice came out of heaven: “I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.” So the crowd of people who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered; others were saying, “An angel has spoken to Him.” Jesus answered and said, “This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes. Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” But He was saying this to indicate the kind of death by which He was to die.“
‭‭John‬ ‭12‬:‭27‬-‭33‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Some will not believe and will not be saved. Why did you stop at verse 33. How come you claim context where there isn’t any. Here let’s finish reading past verse 33.

“The crowd then answered Him, “We have heard from the Law that the Christ is to remain forever; and how is it that You say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this Son of Man?” So Jesus said to them, “For a little while longer the Light is among you. Walk while you have the Light, so that darkness will not overtake you; also, the one who walks in the darkness does not know where he is going. While you have the Light, believe in the Light, so that you may become sons of Light.” These things Jesus proclaimed, and He went away and hid Himself from them. But though He had performed so many signs in their sight, they still were not believing in Him. This happened so that the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke would be fulfilled: “Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again, “He has blinded their eyes and He hardened their heart, so that they will not see with their eyes and understand with their heart, and be converted, and so I will not heal them.” These things Isaiah said because he saw His glory, and he spoke about Him. Nevertheless many, even of the rulers, believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, so that they would not be excommunicated from the synagogue; for they loved the approval of people rather than the approval of God. Now Jesus cried out and said, “The one who believes in Me, does not believe only in Me, but also in Him who sent Me. And the one who sees Me sees Him who sent Me. I have come as Light into the world, so that no one who believes in Me will remain in darkness. If anyone hears My teachings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. The one who rejects Me and does not accept My teachings has one who judges him: the word which I spoke. That will judge him on the last day. For I did not speak on My own, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. And I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.””
‭‭John‬ ‭12‬:‭34‬-‭50‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 12:34-50 The crowd then answered Him, “We have heard from the Law that the Christ is to remain forever; and how is it that You say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this Son of Man?” So Jesus said to | New American Standard Bible - NAS

The crowd then answered Him, “We have heard from the Law that the Christ is to remain forever; and how is it that You say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this Son of Man?” So Jesus said to

bible.com

Is pretty simple brother. Jesus came to save the world but the world did not accept Him. The ones that did are resurrected to glory while the ones that did not are judged by God to perdition. You can’t force verses to say what you want.

That is not what the Scriptures I quoted you above contextually states.

Nah. You missed again.

This is a completely irrational statement … which stems from ignorance. Your preconceived notion of UR, fed to you by our adversary, via the religious institution of man known as orthodoxy, has lulled you in to a false sense of security. One in which you yourself declare to be true of others but omit yourself, when stating … “depart from me you workers of iniquity, for I never knew you.”

So now you are going to question my dedication to the Lord in favor of your false teachings. I have refuted your arguments with scripture time and time again. You guts gave the same UR out of context verse playbook attempting to force the scriptures to say what it doesn’t say.

They will be saved because that is the will and desire of our Heavenly Father …

As long as they have faith in Christ. That is what scripture teaches which is why UR was declared anathema.

Now my brother, you may not be aware of just how thoroughly you are being manipulated by our adversary. You are projecting upon me your very own, not mine, thoughts about forced confessions. This again, is a product of your theology because you have distain for that which is not genuine and from the heart. Good. So do I.

I will rebound this back to you. My theology has survived the test of time while uours not so much.

For the record … I have never stated God forces anyone to confess he is Lord. In fact, on this forum, I have proposed on several threads that any confession made to our King Jesus is wrought by their being confronted with their sin in the light of the pure love of God.

We are saved by the grace of God through faith. No grace, no faith.

I have on multiple occasions put forth the following challenge on his forum, perhaps even also to you, but so far no takers. Please demonstrate for me, from the passage I have quoted below, how one arrives at this being a forced confession?

Remember. Every passage of Scripture should be able to stand on its own merits, as it was intended for its original designated audience.

That is totally incorrect and probably the only way that you can peddle your theology. A verse in an island is exactly that a verse in an island. Your hermeneutics is faulty . I exhort you to study Bible interpretation.

There was no Canon of Scripture available at the time this inspired writing was penned. Only after a clear understanding of the authors original intent, to his original audience, can one pursue a proper harmonization with other Scripture. At least that is how I approach the interpretive process. I eagerly await your contextually sound interpretation of this passage.

The Apostles were the canon of scripture at that time. They were writing it and explaining it to the people.

Paul teaches Timothy that:

“All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man or woman of God may be fully capable, equipped for every good work.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man or woman of God may be fully capable, equipped for every good w | New American Standard Bible -

All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man or woman of God may be fully capable, equipped for every good w

bible.com

He would not be able to teach that if the scriptures were not available.

”Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.“
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2‬:‭5‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Context context. Notice that the beginning of verse 1 starts with “therefore” which is the conclusion of what was written in chapter 1. Remember that there were no chapters back then but only a continuous scroll so you have to read it as such. Let’s see what Paul was teaching the Philippians.

“Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I will hear about you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel; and in no way alarmed by your opponents—which is a sign of destruction for them, but of salvation for you, and this too, from God. For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer on His behalf, experiencing the same conflict which you saw in me, and now hear to be in me.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭1‬:‭27‬-‭30‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Philippians 1:27-30 Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I will hear about you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind s | New American Standard Bible

Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I will hear about you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind s

bible.com

Who are the opponents which us a sign of destruction for them? Not everyone turns to Christ. Not everyone will listen to His word and not everyone will follow Christ.

 

[Hentenza]

No, just somebody saying I beter believe his/her doctrine or God Will Get Me. Somehow I just don't find that compelling; especially given the number of times damnationists have to look at a Scripture and say, "No, that's not what it really means!"

“Damnationists” lol All of Orthodox Christianity are, according to you, damnationists. As far as scripture, we always have to show the UR believers how their out of context, single verse playbook is wrong. Most of the time the verses you guys post are refuted by another verse in the same chapter. You want to try?

 

[Hentenza]

So typical of the "no response response." <Laugh>

If it fits…..

 

[Hentenza]

Yes I'm familiar with your half story method that completely denies engaging the tempter internally and thusly having evil within that defiles everyone.

Your teaching enables the tempter to fool people into believing that all will be saved. Preach the gospel so that they can be saved.

You only want the good stuff and throw everything you don't like at other people

lol I use scripture and all of scripture IS the “good stuff”.

Believers who "walk in the spirit" should start with honesty it would seem?

Ditto. I am commanded to expose false teachings. Here I am.

“All who are under the yoke as slaves are to regard their own masters as worthy of all honor so that the name of God and our doctrine will not be spoken against. Those who have believers as their masters must not be disrespectful to them because they are brothers or sisters, but must serve them all the more, because those who partake of the benefit are believers and beloved. Teach and preach these principles. If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness,”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭6‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

https://bible.com/bible/2692/1ti.6.2-3.NASB2020

 

[Hentenza]

“Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in the same way. For the Father loves the Son and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, so that all will honor the Son just as they honor the Father. The one who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. “Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Truly, truly, I say to you, a time is coming and even now has arrived, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For just as the Father has life in Himself, so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. Do not be amazed at this; for a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come out: those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the bad deeds to a resurrection of judgment.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5‬:‭19‬-‭29‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 5:19-29 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these th | New American Standard Bible - NASB

Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these th

bible.com

“As a result, we ourselves speak proudly of you among the churches of God for your perseverance and faith in the midst of all your persecutions and afflictions which you endure. This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you indeed are suffering. For after all it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted, along with us, when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God, and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These people will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when He comes to be glorified among His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—because our testimony to you was believed.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1‬:‭4‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

2 Thessalonians 1:4-10 As a result, we ourselves speak proudly of you among the churches of God for your perseverance and faith in the midst of all your persecutions and afflictions which you endure. This is a plain indicat | New American Standard Bi

As a result, we ourselves speak proudly of you among the churches of God for your perseverance and faith in the midst of all your persecutions and afflictions which you endure. This is a plain indicat

bible.com

UR believers refute these verses.

 

[Hentenza]

Except open denials of Jesus' Words being applicable to "you," in Mark 7:21-23 for example

Yes, I'm familiar with such blatant denials and falsehoods "in believers"

Are those impious people in Mark 7:21-23 going to be saved?

 

[Light of the East]

While our resurrection is universal, it is either to everlasting life or damnation ( John 5:22-30 etc.). There is no annihilation in the resurrection ( 1 Corinthians 15:20-26 etc.).

There is no such thing as the "resurrection unto damnation." Let's look at the Greek texts (rather than the corrupted and abominable translations of the KJV and the Douay Rheims).

Here is one of a couple of verses which use the English word "damnation"

John 5:29 καὶ ἐκπορεύσονται οἱ τὰ ἀγαθὰ ποιήσαντες εἰς ἀνάστασιν ζωῆς οἱ δὲ τὰ φαῦλα πράξαντες εἰς ἀνάστασιν κρίσεως

The Greek word κρίσεως (krisis) does not connote the idea of damnation. The most fundamental meaning is from a medical standpoint. Originating in ancient medical texts like those of Hippocrates, a "krisis" was a critical juncture in a disease, a decisive point from which the course would change.

There is a specific word in Greek which is properly translated "damnation." It is the Greek word καταδίκη (katadíki̱). Interestingly enough, if you run a study of all the verses in the corrupted KJV which use the English word "damnation" not a single one of them uses this word.

What this points to is the dishonesty of the translators as they read the Greek in a presuppositional mode and decided to insert their own personal belief about God and eschatology into the translation.

I am appalled at how Orthodox Christians continue to promote this Roman Catholic teaching, first created in seriousness by Augustine, as if it is truth when the only way it can be defended from Scripture is by the use of corrupted texts that are not faithful to the original Greek.

 

[Light of the East]

I don't think your idea is correct. The Blessed Virgin Mary's apparitions at Fatima 1917 is a proof.

Private visions do not override the Sacred Scriptures.

 

[Light of the East]

Are those impious people in Mark 7:21-23 going to be saved?

Why not? Aren't their sins a perfect description of all of us? If God can save throughout the ages murderers, adulterers, blasphemers, drunkards, etc., what makes these people unsavable?

 

[Hentenza]

Why not? Aren't their sins a perfect description of all of us? If God can save throughout the ages murderers, adulterers, blasphemers, drunkards, etc., what makes these people unsavable?

The correct answer is yes by believing in the redemptive sacrifice of Christ. No faith, no redemption. Do you disagree?

 

[Light of the East]

God is love, as you pointed out. But his very nature as a loving Father also constrains him to judge those who willfully live in rebellion and reject the free offer of salvation by Jesus Christ. Consider God's relationship with Israel; when they lived in obedience to the law, God prospered and gave them the power to overcome mighty enemies.

But when they rebelled and turned to idolatry, and ignored the warning and pleas from several prophets sent to call them back to God, they ultimately faced the consequences of their error - slaughter and captivity! This is God's judgment of the flesh. The souls of the ungodly will not equally escape eternal judgment unless they repent.

Perhaps these passages will help you understand that the eternal judgment of the ungodly in the Lake of Fire is real and biblical.

Rev 14:9 [AMP] Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “Whoever worships the beast and his image and receives the mark [of the beast] on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he too will [have to] drink of the wine of the wrath of God, [b]mixed undiluted into the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone (flaming sulfur) in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb (Christ). 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night—those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Rev 20:11 [KJV] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

You are missing something. According to you and all hellists I have ever spoken with, this passage is the end of the world and the beginning of the eternal kingdom, n'est ce pas?

Okay, then, explain this:

Revelation 21: 1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’[b] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

This is NOT the end of the world. These verses describe the coming to earth of the Church, the Bride of Christ, replacing Israel as the true spouse of God. God dwells among His people in the Eucharist, where He is truly present. He dwells among His people and by His presence and comfort, wipes away their tears.

5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are overcoming will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Here's the problem. The offer of water to the thirsty speaks of the desire of people to be redeemed, to enter into relationship with Christ, to receive the Holy Spirit, who will be "rivers of living water" within those who receive. So this could not possibly be the end of the world because if so, then there would be no one thirsty. The redeemed have that thirst satisfied and the supposedly eternally damned don't want it. You see the problem?

There is again another verse here which is a problem for those who believe that Revelation 21 is speaking of the end of the world. Verse 7 speaks of those who are overcoming, meaning those who are struggling against their sins through repentance. If this is the end of the world and all destinies are permanently settled, this makes no sense at all. No struggle for the redeemed and those in supposed "hell" don't care and won't struggle.

No, you pick a bad place to try to argue for eternal hell. Revelation is about the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. It describes the final and complete end of the Jewish Age (RE: Matthew 24:3) and what takes place to replace Israel, the Church. Thus, in this understanding, I can make a case, based on other passages of Scripture such at Matthew 13:42, that the Lake of Fire is not forever and has the purpose of cleansing the wicked and making them fit for union with Christ.

 

[Light of the East]

UR believers refute these verses.

Rather than taking the time to answer them, let me answer a question with a question. I am going to base this question on the assumption that eternal hell is real.

It is agreed upon my Christians that God is beyond time as we know it, that He knows the beginning from the end. Therefore, He knew in advance that Adam would eat of the fruit of the tree and thus bring death and sin into the world. And having brought sin and death into the world, that in turn would result in the condemnation of billions of sentient beings to an eternity of indescribable suffering.

Therefore, if God had no need to create, being perfect and without lack in Himself, and knowing that the act of creation would result in the torturous suffering of billions of sentient beings, you must say that it was His will to create them unto suffering. If it was not His will, He would have declined to do so.

What kind of Divine Being therefore would create souls for the sole purpose of being tortured forever?

Kindly answer the last question. Thank you.

 

[Aseyesee]

Except open denials of Jesus' Words being applicable to "you," in Mark 7:21-23 for example

Yes, I'm familiar with such blatant denials and falsehoods "in believers"

I ask for honesty. Seldom obtained. Spin it how you think to avoid the facts of His statements. I don't even blame you for it happening. Common to all, both the fact and denials.

I agree with Jesus, it comes out of us …

 

[Hentenza]

Rather than taking the time to answer them, let me answer a question with a question. I am going to base this question on the assumption that eternal hell is real.

It is agreed upon my Christians that God is beyond time as we know it, that He knows the beginning from the end. Therefore, He knew in advance that Adam would eat of the fruit of the tree and thus bring death and sin into the world. And having brought sin and death into the world, that in turn would result in the condemnation of billions of sentient beings to an eternity of indescribable suffering.

Therefore, if God had no need to create, being perfect and without lack in Himself, and knowing that the act of creation would result in the torturous suffering of billions of sentient beings, you must say that it was His will to create them unto suffering. If it was not His will, He would have declined to do so.

What kind of Divine Being therefore would create souls for the sole purpose of being tortured forever?

Kindly answer the last question. Thank you.

Once again, your question is with God since you put yourself as the larger being able to judge God’s creation knowledge and purpose.

1. You assume that billions will be tortured when all have until the very last breath to accept Christ. This is the typical emotional fallacy argument put forth by your camp. Paul tells us in Romans 1 that none have an excuse.

2. God could have created a perfect world where there is no sin but instead chose to endow people with reason (Adam) to choose. Once chosen all persons sin and all need redemption. Those that seek redemption will get it while those that do not will not get it and will die in their sins.

Stop judging God. You will never be big enough or smart enough. There is an infinite difference between an infinite being (God) and a finite being (you). I choose to trust God’s word when it states that God is love and God is fair. And I also believe the scripture where God states that “vengeance is mine”. All justice is His.

I still would like for you to address the verses I posted. The typical UR rhetoric you posted does not count.

 

[Light of the East]

The correct answer is yes by believing in the redemptive sacrifice of Christ. No faith, no redemption. Do you disagree?

Yes and No.

No, I don't disagree that faith is that activity which brings us to actions which enter us into union with Christ.

How about this:

Romans 5:15 But, not as the offence so also is the free gift; for if by the offence of the one the many did die, much more did the grace of God, and the free gift in grace of the one man Jesus Christ, abound to the many; 16 and not as through one who did sin is the free gift, for the judgment indeed is of one to condemnation, but the gift is of many offences to a declaration of 'Righteous,' 17 for if by the offence of the one the death did reign through the one, much more those, who the abundance of the grace and of the free gift of the righteousness are receiving, in life shall reign through the one -- Jesus Christ. 18 So, then, as through one offence to all men it is to condemnation, so also through one declaration of 'Righteous' it is to all men to justification of life; 19 for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous.

The part in bold says to me that Christ has done all the work of justification unto life. The Gospel therefore appears to be a matter of bringing people to see that they are already justified in Christ and having them come to repent and submit to Christ. In short, the redemption is done, finished, complete, over. We need to tell people they don't have to be slaves to sin anymore, that joy is found in Christ.

But for those who never hear in this life, is that all there is? Shall God take all those for whom Christ died and says "Well, sorry, but you made the mistake of being born in the wrong country at the wrong time. To hell with you?" No, that would be giving over to death the very people Christ died for (unless you are a Calvinist and believe in that satanic doctrine called "election.')

Adam's action brought death upon all. Christ's death brought salvation from death to all.

Yes, I disagree with what you are implying, that only in this life can one come to Christ. So -- yes and no.