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Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

BelieveItOarKnot

Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...
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Look, we're on the same side as it pertains to people.

I'd also point out that technically, the RCC "allows" their adherents to believe that every person has a shot at purgatory, and also technically, could move past that point, although a heterodox position, not commonly held. The EO is not so kind and prefers eternal resistors in torment. The same God loving us while tormenting them. Kinda weird imho
 
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jonojim1337

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The whole batch was already determined guilty. Romans 3:9, Romans 3:19

One Sole Exception, of course

I think most of them were posthumously deified, as it is with the canonisation of saints. The one exception? Augustus. Who bears too many resemblances to Jesus to be ignored.



 
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Jipsah

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I'd also point out that technically, the RCC "allows" their adherents to believe that every person has a shot at purgatory,
Actually, no. Only the blessed go to purgatory, to be purged (hence the name) of the effects of their sins in life. The idea is that no one gets into Heaven still stinking of their former sins. The damned go straight to hell with no stopovers.
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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Actually, no. Only the blessed go to purgatory, to be purged (hence the name) of the effects of their sins in life. The idea is that no one gets into Heaven still stinking of their former sins. The damned go straight to hell with no stopovers.
That wouldn't be the official position of RCC purgatory
 
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Valletta

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Purgatory isn't biblical it amounts to saying what God has declared clean to be unclean and diminishes the Lords sacrifice.
Luke 12:59 "I tell you, you will never get out until you have paid the very last penny"
 
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Free2bHeretical4Him!

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The bible nowhere teaches reincarnation.
Hi David. I agree the Scriptures give no clear, intrinsically verifiable demonstration of reincarnation, such as it does concerning the resurrection, but I have always been intrigued by this question asked of Jesus by his disciples:

”And passing by, He saw a man blind from birth, and His disciples asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned, this one or his parents, that he should be born blind?” Jesus answered, “Neither this one sinned nor his parents, but that the works of God may be revealed in him;“
‭‭John‬ ‭9‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭LSV‬‬

Again, nothing with which to establish the teaching of reincarnation , but nonetheless intriguing as to the thought process of his disciples.

blessings,
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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Purgatory isn't biblical it amounts to saying what God has declared clean to be unclean and diminishes the Lords sacrifice.
The "evil present" within no one, nor the works thereof are getting past the pearly gates:

1 Cor. 3:
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Every man's, not just "believers after any fashions."
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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Actually, no. Only the blessed go to purgatory, to be purged (hence the name) of the effects of their sins in life. The idea is that no one gets into Heaven still stinking of their former sins. The damned go straight to hell with no stopovers.
It's not a requirement of the RCC to think any person will be in hell. They, as a sect, have never determined a single named person to be in hell now, or in the future. And this is true of orthodoxy in general.

Can members believe there are or will be people in hell? Yes. But it's not "mandatory," at least in the RCC

They make room for the possibility of the prevailing Grace and Mercy in Christ, however remotely or not, that it's seen in the eyes of the individual.

"the Church affirms the existence of hell, it emphasizes God's mercy and doesn't require believers to assume anyone is currently in hell or will go there" (our friendly google AI)

But yes, that is the case ^^^

Any believer should at least mark prevailing Grace and Mercy of God in Christ at least as a "possibility." Don't you think?
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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I think most of them were posthumously deified, as it is with the canonisation of saints. The one exception? Augustus. Who bears too many resemblances to Jesus to be ignored.
Do you have a picture of Jesus to verify this claim?

and why are you groveling over this supposed genetic superiority anyway?
 
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David Lamb

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The Jews of Jesus's day believed that individual suffering was a result of individual sin, or perhaps the sin of a parent. I imagine that is why the disciples asked the question.
 
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Dan1988

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You claim to trust "ALL" that is written in the Holy Scriptures, while rejecting or refusing to accept those which contradict your "denominational views".
You approach to the Holy Scriptures, doesn't allow them to speak to you, because you "cherry pick" verses of the Bible.

Whenever I present verses which contradict your denominations teaching, you simply look for other verses which seem to support your view. But the problem with that type of defence is that, it relies on the premiss that there are contradictions in the Bible and everyone is free to hold to their own opposing views and there is no absolute truth in the Bible.

I don't believe there are any errors or contradictions or mixed messages in the Bible. I have invited you to show me a single verse to support your opinion that there are only two kinds of death in the Bible, but you have failed to do so. I have also asked you to find a single verse to support your opinion that hell is not a place where sinners experience "Eternal Conscience Torment", and again you have failed to find a single verse to support these doctrines you hold to.

You believe in the "cessation of existence or annihilation", but you have never found a single verse of scripture to support this private opinion either. you are entitled to your private opinion, but you can't claim that it true or correct without any evidence, apart from "it seems right in your own eyes", but the Bible has something to say about "mans private opinion" --

Proverbs 14:12 "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death".
or
Proverbs 3:5 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;

I understand that you are currently studying the Bible, and glad to hear that you are. Let me encourage you to continue, and allow me to share something I came to realise after studying the Bible for around three years. I had to discard and abandon many of the views and doctrines, which I held onto firmly.

It was very difficult to face the awful truth of the gospel, and allow the bible to interpret the bible. It meant that I had zero control over anything the Bible says. So, instead of me reading the Bible and drawing to conclusions, the Bible was reading me and showing me that I'm not called to evaluate or scrutinize Gods Word. Instead, God speaks for Himself through His Holy Spirit.

I found that every faithful believer, arrives at the same conclusions, because they are all led by the same Holy Spirit. We can look back over 2000 years of Church history and see the Church fathers holding to the exact same theology and doctrines, going right back to the Apostles.

Going back to our topic, I'd like to clarify what I said about man stepping into eternity. I never suggested that man's earthly body is immortal in it's present state. But all born again believers will receive their perfect, sinless, glorified "eternal" or "immortal" bodies in the life to come. We will be Chris like.
But our corrupt bodies of death, will be transformed, so there will be no corruption in us.

Likewise, all unbelievers will be resurrected and reunited with their corrupt earthly bodies and they will be cast into hell and they will feel the fires just as they would if they were back on earth, except their worm will never die and there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Ceasing to exist will not be an option.

There are only two kinds of existence in the Bible, "Life" and "Death". Those who are in Christ have life, those who are outside of Christ are "Dead", but not the death that many hope for. Those who are walking around dead on earth right now, will remain in their spiritually dead state forever, if they are not born again.
The rich man who was tormented in hell, asked Abraham if somebody could warn his five brothers back on earth, not to come to this place of torment. But he said, they have the prophets and scriptures. If they don't believe them, they won't believe one who comes back from the dead to warn them.
 
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Dan1988

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I never refer to the corrupt Greek text for anything. Jesus was a Jew, not Greek. The Jews are Gods chosen people, not the Greeks. The Greeks translated the original Hebrew and Aramaic texts into Greek, so we can assume they included a lot of their Pagan beliefs into the translations.

Truly born again Christians, would never put God on trial and accuse Him of being unjust or cruel. We have no business questioning anything God does, that's His business and His alone.
As an Elect Saint of God, I simply trust that everything God does is perfect and good. Yes even when He kills billions of men, women, children and unborn children as He did with Noah's flood, and even when He torments billions in the lake of fire for all eternity.

God is a mystery, we don't know much about Him. All we know is what he revealed to Us in the (Authorised version) of Holy Bible. So it's silly to try and put God in a box and say He shouldn't do this or that while we know next to nothing about Him.

I realise you have been raised in the Eastern Orthodox Denomination, but don't forget there are many other Denominations teaching radically different and opposing doctrines to yours. Jude ye not, lest you be judged.
 
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Dan1988

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It's evident to me that you're unaware of the different contexts in which the words "life" and "death" are used in the Bible.
It's after midnight here so I'm too tired to do an exhaustive study with you so I'll do the lazy thing and hand you over to Dr. google.
If you're unsatisfied with the good Doctor's offering, I'll get back to you with a more personalised consultation


Salvation and eternal life: Believers are said to have eternal life through faith in Jesus, which means they will live eternally with God after physical death (John 11:25-26)

.Condemnation and spiritual death: Those who are not in Christ are considered spiritually dead, facing eternal death, as they are separated from God and subject to His judgment.

Physical life and death
God's ultimate control: Scripture emphasizes that God has the ultimate power over life and death, as seen in the Old Testament with figures like Elijah and the New Testament with Jesus' resurrection (1 Kings 17:19-23).

The finality of death: This concept highlights the finality of physical death for unbelievers, but for believers, it is only a transition to eternal life.


Life-giving words: Words have the power to build up, heal, and give life. Speaking God's word and words of blessing is seen as sowing seeds of life.

Death-dealing words: Words can also harm, tear down, and bring ruin. The Bible warns against using words in a way that brings destruction.

Judgment based on words: According to Matthew 12:37, people will be held accountable for their words, and they can be either justified or condemned by them.

Holy living: Since spiritual death is a reality for the ungodly, believers are motivated to live holy lives out of love for God.

Guarding the tongue: Believers are encouraged to be intentional with their words to ensure they are life-giving and not destructive.

Internal transformation: The words that come from the mouth are a reflection of the heart, so believers are to fill their hearts with God's word to speak life.
 
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Free2bHeretical4Him!

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The Jews of Jesus's day believed that individual suffering was a result of individual sin, or perhaps the sin of a parent. I imagine that is why the disciples asked the question.
True, but I’m sure you would agree, sometimes suffering is a result of the one who sinned, and even the sin of the parents (King David). But this question specifically denotes the sin being done “before” birth; at least the way I’m reading the txt, it appears the disciples carried the idea one could sin “prior” to birth.

“Rabbi, who sinned, this one or his parents, that he should be born blind?”
 
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Hentenza

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I think the idea here has nothing to do with the sin but with doing what glorifies God. Jesus answered that neither had sinned (him or his parents). His sight being restored made the beggar a witness to Christ and, therefore, is doing God’s work.
 
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