Hell as literal fire and brimstone/torture

[RileyG]

People don't go anywhere after they die. Hell is the completely natural result of death when you have rejected God.

Without a loving God to accept you after death, there is nothing. You "live" in all your misery in silence with nothing but your life behind you. This is the "torment" you face. The "fire". Your life with no one to forgive you for your failings. That is hell. You "burn" with regret.

So, IOW, you are saying nonexistence AKA annihilation.

 

[RileyG]

The Talmud isn't credible and The Jewish encyclopedia gets a lot of its info from Talmud. Again, not credible.

The Talmund was also very anti-Christian.

 

[Ceallaigh]

This is a pretty good exploratory lecture on the topic.

 

[Ceallaigh]

The Talmud isn't credible and The Jewish encyclopedia gets a lot of its info from Talmud. Again, not credible.

Well said.

 

[Sophrosyne]

As much as I believe that it is likely real fire etc in hell, in reality the discomfort/pain etc that real fire etc could cause in a new body in Hell could likewise be caused by other sources including the Glory of God in that realm. One could also equate that the pain of skin being frozen vs burned and maybe acid etc would be similar pain.
Basically the pain/torment/anguish by whatever source that is experienced upon people there will equal that of fire on our bodies in this realm and so literal or not if the experience is the same then is there truly any difference to those suffering in hell? I shake my head at those wishing it were not so, as I think that if they decide it isn't fire that they are suffering from that it won't be as horrible and "unloving" to those stuck in hell.
I contend that the Glory of God is akin to a burning fire like the burning bush Moses saw and that fire didn't consume the bush so was it a real literal fire or something else? If the result has the same affect that a fire has then
for God's purpose...... and to Moses it was a real literal fire and the bush was made immune to it.
If one considers putting sun tan lotion on your pale skin able to protect it from being sunburned and having less SPF protection from sunburn or having natural protection via a tan etc the intensity of "burn" from fire or whatever in hell could be a by product of the amount of sin (pale skin) vs the amount of goodness (sunburn lotion) and the intensity of that (spf) that would decrease the burning effect upon those in hell.

In other words I think that those in hell suffer burning because of their condition that is carried over from this life and that it isn't equal torment/punishment/suffering etc because some people are essentially less evil than others in comparison there, but that evil leads to more susceptibility to "burning" in hell as perhaps this evil is both controlled as not to spread and grow there plus God's holiness is like a burning sun there.

As much as people want to end the suffering in hell, my thinking is that the mechanism to keep people from being banished there to contain their evil that is infectious from the rest of God's realm once rejected in this life cannot operate similarly in the next life. The "innoculation" we get from salvation that makes us free from sin/evil forever does not work once someone has got their new eternal body such that evil there is unaffected by Jesus' blood at all and these people in hell.... have no hope.

The blinding truth is if people could be saved and released from hell after some sense of time that may not even exist if we do live forever then any length of "time" that is finite essentially become meaninglessly tiny blinking into nothingness as a "punishment" for sinning against God and even in some cases doing things that the end result in people dying without accepting Jesus (saved) being a nothing burger. The Cross and proclaiming the Gospel and us loving one another in this life are basically unneeded as we can all live and sin as much as possible and just suffer for a million years in the next life which will be forgotten over a billion quadrillion quintilling million zillion years or 1 with a billion zeroes after it years. A lifetime of perhaps murdering a million people the punishment for it would be forgotten like a 2 year old getting a scratch that needed a bandaid on it.

I believe the condition of hell which is later tossed in the lake of fire and the people trapped there is forever I don't think that it is curable. As time is like 1000 years (to God) it could be that in hell..... there is no reference of time and that they suffer from moment to moment unable to ascertain how long they have been there from a standpoint of a second to a year it is the same. If time isn't working the same then trying to fix an amount of time as a punishment may be..... impossible and thus either you don't punish people or they are punished forever with no choice otherwise possible.

 

[RickReads]

Thank you for this uninformed/misinformed opinion which does not interest me. All nonsense.

The Talmud is filled with nonsense.

F.W. Farrar, in his preface to Paul Herson’s A Talmudic Miscellany, said, “But yet I venture to say that it would be impossible to find less wisdom, less eloquence, and less high morality, imbedded in a vaster bulk of what is utterly valueless to mankind--to say nothing of those parts of it which are indelicate and even obscene--in any other national literature of the same extent.”

Talmud Judaism is a fulfillment of Deuteronomy 28:28, which says that God would smite Israel “with madness, and blindness.”

Talmud Judaism is a fulfillment of the prophecy of a famine of hearing God’s Word.

“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it” (Amos 8:11-12).

During her wanderings, Israel carefully and tediously preserved the Scriptures by the hands of the Massorites, but the word of God was hidden under layers of vain tradition so the words could not be clearly heard. And a vail was upon the hearts of the readers so that they could not understand what they were reading.

“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart” (2 Co. 3:14-15).

Though Israel has the word of God in her own Scriptures that are kept in the arks of her synagogues and read every sabbath and venerated in her ceremonies, she is spiritually famished and not fed from God’s words. She has wandered everywhere seeking the word of God, trying to find the rabbi with the right interpretation.

B.H. Carroll, first president of the Southwestern Theological Seminary, said, “[The Talmud] may be likened to ‘a continent of mud,’ or, on account of the dryness of the matter, to the Sahara Desert minus its oases. It is as unpalatable as sawdust bread. Its diet is as void of nutritive properties as the sick soldier’s soup, according to his own hyperbolic description: ‘A piece of blue beef held up between the sun and a pot of boiling water, so as to boil its shadow’” (An Interpretation of the English Bible).

Maurice Harris in the preface to Hebraic Literature, 1901, says of the Talmud, “If we take it as a whole, it is good, it is bad and indifferent; it is trash and it is treasure; it is dust and it is diamonds; it is potsherd and it is pearls...”

The trash, dust, and potsherd side is very large.

Consider some examples of nonsense taught in the Talmud:

The Talmud teaches that Adam’s first day was divided into twelve hours, and that he sinned and was expelled from the garden that day.

“R. Johanan b. Hanina said: The day consisted of twelve hours. In the first hour, his [Adam’s] dust was gathered; in the second, it was kneaded into a shapeless mass. In the third, his limbs were shaped; in the fourth, a soul was infused into him; in the fifth, he arose and stood on his feet; in the sixth, he gave [the animals] their names; in the seventh, Eve became his mate; in the eighth, they ascended to bed as two and descended as four; in the ninth, he was commanded not to eat of the tree, in the tenth, he sinned; in the eleventh, he was tried, and in the twelfth he was expelled [from Eden] and departed, for it is written, Man abideth not in honour.”

Talmud teaches that “God puts on phylacteries and prays, studies the law, weeps, and mourns” (Joel Kraemer, Maimonides, p. 432).

The Talmud teaches that angels were best men at Adam’s marriage. “R. Abbahu said: The Holy One, blessed be He, took a cup of blessing and blessed them. R. Judah b. R. Simon said: Michael and Gabriel were Adam’s ‘best men’” (Bereishth Rabbah 18:13).

Consider other examples of Talmudic nonsense:

“It is indiscreet for one to sleep in a house as the sole occupant, for Lilith will seize hold of him” (Shabbath., fol. 151, col. 2; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala; www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl04.htm). “Lilith is the name of a night ghost, said to have been Adam's first wife, but who, for her refractory conduct, was transformed into a demon endowed with power to injure and even destroy infants unprotected by the necessary amulet or charm.”

“He who passes seven nights in succession without dreaming deserves to be called wicked” (Berachoth, fol. 14, col. 1; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl10.htm).

“A dog in a strange place does not bark for seven years” (Berachoth, fol. 61, col. 1; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl10.htm).

“There are seven skies: Villon, Raakia, Shechakim, Zevul, Mason, Maachon, and Aravoth” (Chaggigah, fol. 12, col. 2; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl10.htm).

“Once upon a time a demon in the shape of a seven-headed dragon came forth against Rav Acha and threatened to harm him, but the Rabbi threw himself on his knees, and every time he fell down to pray he knocked off one of these heads, and thus eventually killed the dragon” (Kiddushin, fol. 29, col. 2; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl10.htm).

“Seven years did the nations of the world cultivate their vineyards with no other manure than the blood of Israel” (Gittin, fol. 57, col. 1; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl10.htm).

“A male hyæna after seven years becomes a bat; this after seven years, a vampire; this after other seven years, a nettle; this after seven years more, a thorn; and this again after seven years is turned into a demon. If a man does not devoutly bow during the repetition of the daily prayer which commences, ‘we reverently acknowledge,’ his spine after seven years becomes a serpent” (Bava Kama, fol. 6, col. 1; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl10.htm).

“The Rabbis have taught that a man should not drink water on Wednesdays and Saturdays after night-fall, for if he does, his blood, because of risk, will be upon his own head. What risk? That from an evil spirit who on these evenings prowls abroad. But if the man be thirsty, what is he to do? Let him repeat over the water the seven voices ascribed to the Lord by David in Psalm 29:3-9, ‘The voice of the Lord is upon the waters,’ etc.” (P'sachim, fol. 112, col. 1; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl10.htm).

When the doors of the Temple were opened the creaking of the hinges was heard at the distance of eight Sabbath days’ journey (Yoma, fol. 39, col. 2; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl11.htm).

“... women are light-minded, i. e., of shallow natural endowment, on which any serious discipline would be thrown away” (Kiddushin, fol. 80, col. 2; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl12.htm).

God weeps every day (Chaggigah, fol. 3, col. 2; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl12.htm).

God utters a curse against those who remain single after they are twenty years of age; and those who marry at sixteen please him, and those who do so at fourteen still more (Kiddushin, fol. 29, col. 2; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl12.htm).

God is described as exacting an atonement for His own miscreations; as, for instance, His diminishing the size of the moon (Shevuoth, fol. 9, col. 1; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl12.htm).

Ten things cause hemorrhoids: Eating cane leaves, the foliage and tendrils of the vine, the palate of cattle, the backbones of fish, half-cooked salt fish, wine lees, etc. (Berachoth, fol. 55, col. 1; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl13.htm).

“Rabbi Huna the son of Rabbi Yehoshua ‘would not walk four cubits with an uncovered head’” (Kiddushin 31a). This is the basis for Orthodox men wearing head coverings in prayer, though it is not taught in Scripture.

“The Rabbis taught: On coming from a privy [outdoor toilet] a man should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited long enough to walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy is with him for that time; if he does, his children will be epileptic” (Gittin 70a, www.come-and-hear.com/gittin/gittin_70.html).

The Talmud contains nonsensical teaching about the resurrection.

According to the Talmud and the Zohar (Kabbalah), after the Messiah comes, dead Jews in Jerusalem will be resurrected first, but those who are buried outside of Jerusalem will roll like gourds to Israel in tunnels that God will create. The Talmud says the rolling will probably be painful. The luz bone of the deceased (possibly the coccyx) will be anointed with the “dew of the resurrection” which is stored in the highest heaven called Arabot. The bone will become as soft as dough and from it the resurrection body will grow. This is why many Jews pay tens of thousands of dollars to be buried in Jerusalem.

The Talmud exalts the wisdom of the rabbis to the level of God’s Word, even above God Himself.

Even contradictory statements by rival schools of rabbis (Hillel and Shammai) are the “words of the living God” (Eruvin 13b).

The Talmud claims that God acknowledges His weakness in argument, having been defeated by the rabbis! After describing a ridiculous exchange between rabbis, the following statement is supposedly made by God:

“My children have vanquished me! My children have vanquished me! They have defeated me in argument” (Bava Metzia, fol. 59, col. 2; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl12.htm).

Bava Metzia, fol. 86, col. 1 says that after one of God’s decisions was controverted by “the Academy” in heaven, the matter was settled by a rabbi brought from earth to judge the case.

Moral Filth

The Talmud has many ingenuous ways to circumvent God’s commandments about moral purity.

For example, tractate Yebamouth, Folio 54a, describes a situation in which a man falls from a roof and “accidentally” fornicates with his sister-in-law. In such a case, the rabbis say that no indignity resulted since it was not “intentionally caused.” The entire scene is ridiculous, unholy, obscene, and contrary to God’s law, but it is typical of many passages in the Talmud. (I am not going to quote the actual Talmud statement, because it is filthy.)

Leviticus 15:19-24 says that a woman is unclean during her menstrual period and if a man lie with her, he also becomes unclean. But the Talmud, in Horayoth 4a, says “that a woman is not regarded as a ‘zabah’ [one with a discharge] except during the daytime because it is written, ‘all the days of her issue.’”

Yebamouth, Folio 59a, 59b, says that a woman who has intercourse with beasts is not a harlot and can thus marry a high priest. The rabbis argue that “if the disqualification should be extended to unnatural intercourse also, you will find no woman eligible to marry a [high priest, since there is not one] who has not been in some way. ... which proves that unnatural intercourse does not cause a woman to be forbidden to marry a high priest” (cited from Elizabeth Dilling, The Jewish Religion: Its Influence Today, p. 396, citing the Babylonian Talmud, Soncino Press 1936 edition). This is in direct opposition to Leviticus 20:16 and 21:7.

The Talmud justifies pedophilia.

“Rab said: Pederasty with a child below nine years of age is not deemed as pederasty with a child above that. Samuel said: Pederasty with a child below three years is not treated as with a child above that. What is the basis of their dispute? — Rab maintains that only he who is able to engage in sexual intercourse, may, as the passive subject of pederasty throw guilt [upon the active offender]; whilst he who is unable to engage in sexual intercourse cannot be a passive subject of pederasty [in that respect]” (Sanhedrin, Folio 54a; www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_54.html).

“R. Joseph said: Come and hear! A maiden aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition, and if her deceased husband’s brother cohabits with her, she becomes his” (Sanhedrin 55b; www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_55.html).

"Sexual intercourse with a girl less than three is ‘nothing’” (Kethuboth 11b, p. 58).

“R. Eleazar further stated: What is meant by the Scriptural text, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh? This teaches that Adam had intercourse with every beast and animal but found no satisfaction until he cohabited with Eve” (Yebamoth 63a, www.come-and-hear.com/yebamoth/yebamoth_63.html).

The Talmud teaches that the serpent lusted after Mary. “Said R. Joshua b. Karhah: It teaches you through what sin that wicked creature inveigled them, viz. because he saw them engaged in their natural functions, he [the serpent] conceived a passion for her” (Rabbah 18:6).

 

[Der Alte]

All facts. I am almost tempted to look it up but I got other pots on the stove right now.

You're about 30 years behind. That's how long I have been active at this forum discussing this and other issues and saving and updating/revising my responses.

 

[RickReads]

You're about 30 years behind. That's how long I have been active at this forum discussing this and other issues and saving and updating/revising my responses.

Dilling I: The Pharisees, the Talmud, and Modern Judaism

 

[RickReads]

You're about 30 years behind. That's how long I have been active at this forum discussing this and other issues and saving and updating/revising my responses.

I've studied the Bible longer than that so I'm not concerned.

 

[Der Alte]

Dilling I: The Pharisees, the Talmud, and Modern Judaism

That's a lot of material to try to search. What should have happened here are a few quotes from the linked writing supporting claims you have mentioned in the previous posts and page, paragraph #s etc. where further information can be found. And Dilling is not a Jew anything she says may or may not be correct.

 

[Der Alte]

I've studied the Bible longer than that so I'm not concerned.

We were not discussing the Bible but your objections to the Talmud. I didn't say I have only studied the Bible 30 years I said I have been active at this forum more than 30 years. I have been a Christian for 56+ years. I studied at the gradute level 41+ years ago.

 

[Der Alte]

The Talmud is filled with nonsense.
F.W. Farrar, in his preface to Paul Herson’s A Talmudic Miscellany, said, “But yet I venture to say that it would be impossible to find less wisdom, less eloquence, and less high morality, imbedded in a vaster bulk of what is utterly valueless to mankind--to say nothing of those parts of it which are indelicate and even obscene--in any other national literature of the same extent.”
Talmud Judaism is a fulfillment of Deuteronomy 28:28, which says that God would smite Israel “with madness, and blindness.”
Talmud Judaism is a fulfillment of the prophecy of a famine of hearing God’s Word.

“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it” (Amos 8:11-12).

During her wanderings, Israel carefully and tediously preserved the Scriptures by the hands of the Massorites, but the word of God was hidden under layers of vain tradition so the words could not be clearly heard. And a vail was upon the hearts of the readers so that they could not understand what they were reading.

“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart” (2 Co. 3:14-15).

Though Israel has the word of God in her own Scriptures that are kept in the arks of her synagogues and read every sabbath and venerated in her ceremonies, she is spiritually famished and not fed from God’s words. She has wandered everywhere seeking the word of God, trying to find the rabbi with the right interpretation.

B.H. Carroll, first president of the Southwestern Theological Seminary, said, “[The Talmud] may be likened to ‘a continent of mud,’ or, on account of the dryness of the matter, to the Sahara Desert minus its oases. It is as unpalatable as sawdust bread. Its diet is as void of nutritive properties as the sick soldier’s soup, according to his own hyperbolic description: ‘A piece of blue beef held up between the sun and a pot of boiling water, so as to boil its shadow’” (An Interpretation of the English Bible).

Maurice Harris in the preface to Hebraic Literature, 1901, says of the Talmud, “If we take it as a whole, it is good, it is bad and indifferent; it is trash and it is treasure; it is dust and it is diamonds; it is potsherd and it is pearls...”

The trash, dust, and potsherd side is very large.

Consider some examples of nonsense taught in the Talmud:

The Talmud teaches that Adam’s first day was divided into twelve hours, and that he sinned and was expelled from the garden that day.

“R. Johanan b. Hanina said: The day consisted of twelve hours. In the first hour, his [Adam’s] dust was gathered; in the second, it was kneaded into a shapeless mass. In the third, his limbs were shaped; in the fourth, a soul was infused into him; in the fifth, he arose and stood on his feet; in the sixth, he gave [the animals] their names; in the seventh, Eve became his mate; in the eighth, they ascended to bed as two and descended as four; in the ninth, he was commanded not to eat of the tree, in the tenth, he sinned; in the eleventh, he was tried, and in the twelfth he was expelled [from Eden] and departed, for it is written, Man abideth not in honour.”

Talmud teaches that “God puts on phylacteries and prays, studies the law, weeps, and mourns” (Joel Kraemer, Maimonides, p. 432).

The Talmud teaches that angels were best men at Adam’s marriage. “R. Abbahu said: The Holy One, blessed be He, took a cup of blessing and blessed them. R. Judah b. R. Simon said: Michael and Gabriel were Adam’s ‘best men’” (Bereishth Rabbah 18:13).

Consider other examples of Talmudic nonsense:

“It is indiscreet for one to sleep in a house as the sole occupant, for Lilith will seize hold of him” (Shabbath., fol. 151, col. 2; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala; www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl04.htm). “Lilith is the name of a night ghost, said to have been Adam's first wife, but who, for her refractory conduct, was transformed into a demon endowed with power to injure and even destroy infants unprotected by the necessary amulet or charm.”

“He who passes seven nights in succession without dreaming deserves to be called wicked” (Berachoth, fol. 14, col. 1; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl10.htm).

“A dog in a strange place does not bark for seven years” (Berachoth, fol. 61, col. 1; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl10.htm).

“There are seven skies: Villon, Raakia, Shechakim, Zevul, Mason, Maachon, and Aravoth” (Chaggigah, fol. 12, col. 2; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl10.htm).

“Once upon a time a demon in the shape of a seven-headed dragon came forth against Rav Acha and threatened to harm him, but the Rabbi threw himself on his knees, and every time he fell down to pray he knocked off one of these heads, and thus eventually killed the dragon” (Kiddushin, fol. 29, col. 2; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl10.htm).

“Seven years did the nations of the world cultivate their vineyards with no other manure than the blood of Israel” (Gittin, fol. 57, col. 1; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl10.htm).

“A male hyæna after seven years becomes a bat; this after seven years, a vampire; this after other seven years, a nettle; this after seven years more, a thorn; and this again after seven years is turned into a demon. If a man does not devoutly bow during the repetition of the daily prayer which commences, ‘we reverently acknowledge,’ his spine after seven years becomes a serpent” (Bava Kama, fol. 6, col. 1; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl10.htm).

“The Rabbis have taught that a man should not drink water on Wednesdays and Saturdays after night-fall, for if he does, his blood, because of risk, will be upon his own head. What risk? That from an evil spirit who on these evenings prowls abroad. But if the man be thirsty, what is he to do? Let him repeat over the water the seven voices ascribed to the Lord by David in Psalm 29:3-9, ‘The voice of the Lord is upon the waters,’ etc.” (P'sachim, fol. 112, col. 1; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl10.htm).

When the doors of the Temple were opened the creaking of the hinges was heard at the distance of eight Sabbath days’ journey (Yoma, fol. 39, col. 2; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl11.htm).

“... women are light-minded, i. e., of shallow natural endowment, on which any serious discipline would be thrown away” (Kiddushin, fol. 80, col. 2; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl12.htm).

God weeps every day (Chaggigah, fol. 3, col. 2; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl12.htm).

God utters a curse against those who remain single after they are twenty years of age; and those who marry at sixteen please him, and those who do so at fourteen still more (Kiddushin, fol. 29, col. 2; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl12.htm).

God is described as exacting an atonement for His own miscreations; as, for instance, His diminishing the size of the moon (Shevuoth, fol. 9, col. 1; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl12.htm).

Ten things cause hemorrhoids: Eating cane leaves, the foliage and tendrils of the vine, the palate of cattle, the backbones of fish, half-cooked salt fish, wine lees, etc. (Berachoth, fol. 55, col. 1; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl13.htm).

“Rabbi Huna the son of Rabbi Yehoshua ‘would not walk four cubits with an uncovered head’” (Kiddushin 31a). This is the basis for Orthodox men wearing head coverings in prayer, though it is not taught in Scripture.

“The Rabbis taught: On coming from a privy [outdoor toilet] a man should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited long enough to walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy is with him for that time; if he does, his children will be epileptic” (Gittin 70a, www.come-and-hear.com/gittin/gittin_70.html).

The Talmud contains nonsensical teaching about the resurrection.

According to the Talmud and the Zohar (Kabbalah), after the Messiah comes, dead Jews in Jerusalem will be resurrected first, but those who are buried outside of Jerusalem will roll like gourds to Israel in tunnels that God will create. The Talmud says the rolling will probably be painful. The luz bone of the deceased (possibly the coccyx) will be anointed with the “dew of the resurrection” which is stored in the highest heaven called Arabot. The bone will become as soft as dough and from it the resurrection body will grow. This is why many Jews pay tens of thousands of dollars to be buried in Jerusalem.

The Talmud exalts the wisdom of the rabbis to the level of God’s Word, even above God Himself.

Even contradictory statements by rival schools of rabbis (Hillel and Shammai) are the “words of the living God” (Eruvin 13b).

The Talmud claims that God acknowledges His weakness in argument, having been defeated by the rabbis! After describing a ridiculous exchange between rabbis, the following statement is supposedly made by God:

“My children have vanquished me! My children have vanquished me! They have defeated me in argument” (Bava Metzia, fol. 59, col. 2; Hebraic Literature: Translations from the Talmud, Midrashim, and Kabbala, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/hl/hl12.htm).

Bava Metzia, fol. 86, col. 1 says that after one of God’s decisions was controverted by “the Academy” in heaven, the matter was settled by a rabbi brought from earth to judge the case.

Moral Filth

The Talmud has many ingenuous ways to circumvent God’s commandments about moral purity.

For example, tractate Yebamouth, Folio 54a, describes a situation in which a man falls from a roof and “accidentally” fornicates with his sister-in-law. In such a case, the rabbis say that no indignity resulted since it was not “intentionally caused.” The entire scene is ridiculous, unholy, obscene, and contrary to God’s law, but it is typical of many passages in the Talmud. (I am not going to quote the actual Talmud statement, because it is filthy.)

Leviticus 15:19-24 says that a woman is unclean during her menstrual period and if a man lie with her, he also becomes unclean. But the Talmud, in Horayoth 4a, says “that a woman is not regarded as a ‘zabah’ [one with a discharge] except during the daytime because it is written, ‘all the days of her issue.’”

Yebamouth, Folio 59a, 59b, says that a woman who has intercourse with beasts is not a harlot and can thus marry a high priest. The rabbis argue that “if the disqualification should be extended to unnatural intercourse also, you will find no woman eligible to marry a [high priest, since there is not one] who has not been in some way. ... which proves that unnatural intercourse does not cause a woman to be forbidden to marry a high priest” (cited from Elizabeth Dilling, The Jewish Religion: Its Influence Today, p. 396, citing the Babylonian Talmud, Soncino Press 1936 edition). This is in direct opposition to Leviticus 20:16 and 21:7.

The Talmud justifies pedophilia.

“Rab said: Pederasty with a child below nine years of age is not deemed as pederasty with a child above that. Samuel said: Pederasty with a child below three years is not treated as with a child above that. What is the basis of their dispute? — Rab maintains that only he who is able to engage in sexual intercourse, may, as the passive subject of pederasty throw guilt [upon the active offender]; whilst he who is unable to engage in sexual intercourse cannot be a passive subject of pederasty [in that respect]” (Sanhedrin, Folio 54a; www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_54.html).

“R. Joseph said: Come and hear! A maiden aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition, and if her deceased husband’s brother cohabits with her, she becomes his” (Sanhedrin 55b; www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_55.html).

"Sexual intercourse with a girl less than three is ‘nothing’” (Kethuboth 11b, p. 58).

“R. Eleazar further stated: What is meant by the Scriptural text, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh? This teaches that Adam had intercourse with every beast and animal but found no satisfaction until he cohabited with Eve” (Yebamoth 63a, www.come-and-hear.com/yebamoth/yebamoth_63.html).

The Talmud teaches that the serpent lusted after Mary. “Said R. Joshua b. Karhah: It teaches you through what sin that wicked creature inveigled them, viz. because he saw them engaged in their natural functions, he [the serpent] conceived a passion for her” (Rabbah 18:6).

The opinions of single scholars is not a consensus. That which is obviously nonsense should be ignored but that does nor negate the entire Talmud when it describes the faith and practices of the Jews.

 

[RickReads]

The opinions of single scholars is not a consensus. That which is obviously nonsense should be ignored but that does nor negate the entire Talmud when it describes the faith and practices of the Jews.[/FONT]

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

 

[SkyWriting]

So nature created hell and determined that the damned would go there, right?

There is no "there". Hell is the result of not being with God. Hell is no place.

 

[SkyWriting]

So, IOW, you are saying nonexistence AKA annihilation.

That seems to happen at the Lake of Fire event. Even though there is no time, events seem to take place sequentially. Maybe we will find out then.

 

[SkyWriting]

That ain't what Jesus said.

Evidently there is a purgatory where people from the Old Testament visit and rest up because they never had an opportunity to be saved by Jesus, in the future.

 

[Der Alte]

Evidently there is a purgatory where people from the Old Testament visit and rest up because they never had an opportunity to be saved by Jesus, in the future.

I haven't read anything by Jesus that indicates that.

 

[Der Alte]

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

Not in this instance. The way they are shown is as a minority opinion.

 

[RickReads]

Not in this instance. The way they are shown is as a minority opinion.

The Jews will throw their Talmuds away one day.

 

[TedT]

Hell with fire is real. Remember, hell was originally created for the devil and his angels, not for humans.

Ummm, hell was created for all sinners who sinned the unforgivable sin, whether the devil sowed them into mankind or left them in their spirit form, Matt 13: 36-39. Hell has only been used for the final place of suffering for the unforgivable since Dante. Before then hell referred to the abode of those waiting for the judgement day, also called Sheol or Hades.

Maybe hell was not created because before the choice of some to sin the unforgivable sin He had no use for an eternal hell. The words for the place of eternal suffering is the outer darkness which I presume is outside of HIS created reality... IF our reality is not infinite it has an edge and past that edge there is nothing created except Satan and his demonic angels called goats flung there by themselves, aware as if in fire.