Heavy Music

[Sketcher]

I don't see a whole lot to like about Manson. I just don't respect anyone who feels he has to look like a he/she in order to make up for a lack of musical talent. If your music is good enough, you shouldn't have to rely on shock value. Now, Zao is a heavier band that bleeds talent. They don't try to shock people or anything. They just are who they are, and people get shocked because they're used to Stephen Curtis Chapman.

 

[DJ_Ghost]

I don't think manson feels he has to shock people to make up for a lack of talent I think he is a good business man who knows that shock will sell more than talent alone.

Ghost

 

[Athanasian Creed]

Jimmy Page was very much into the occult - he was a disciple of Aliester Crowley, a noted REAL Satanist.

The song "Stairway to Heaven" is laden with the occult.

Another 80's metal band that definitely was Satanic was Mercyful Fate (i believe they were from Denmark)

Anyone remember a Christian "death" metal band from the 80's Vengeance/Vengeance Rising ?? The lead singer (name withheld) renounced Christ and became a Satanist. He had a website and the whole bit.

There was also another band from the 80's - another ultra heavy metal band out of Chicago called Trouble. They were secular but their first two albums were overtly Christian. They would have been classified "white" metal because of the lyrical content.


Ray

 

[oldrooster]

Jimmy Page was very much into the occult - he was a disciple of Aliester Crowley, a noted REAL Satanist.

The song "Stairway to Heaven" is laden with the occult.

Another 80's metal band that definitely was Satanic was Mercyful Fate (i believe they were from Denmark)

Anyone remember a Christian "death" metal band from the 80's Vengeance/Vengeance Rising ?? The lead singer (name withheld) renounced Christ and became a Satanist. He had a website and the whole bit.

There was also another band from the 80's - another ultra heavy metal band out of Chicago called Trouble. They were secular but their first two albums were overtly Christian. They would have been classified "white" metal because of the lyrical content.


Ray

Most of it is for show, just because the band jumps off a building, do you ?

 

[Athanasian Creed]

Most bands yes perhaps, but not the ones i mentioned sorry - they's the real mccoy !!



Ray

 

[oldrooster]

Most bands yes perhaps, but not the ones i mentioned sorry - they's the real mccoy !!



Ray

Jimmy Page or Robert Plant, one of them bought Crowley's estate.....

 

[Centrifuge04]

I listen to these heavy metal bands, these are the ones off the top of my head
Black Sabbath,Ozzy,Judas Priest,Slayer,Black Label Society,Slipknot,Hatebreed,Lacuna Coil,Chimaria,Darkest Hour,DevilDriver,In Flames,Killswitch Engage,Pantera,and MANY MANY more. Yes, some are devil worsphippers (Slayer) but the music is amazing

 

[oldrooster]

I listen to these heavy metal bands, these are the ones off the top of my head
Black Sabbath,Ozzy,Judas Priest,Slayer,Black Label Society,Slipknot,Hatebreed,Lacuna Coil,Chimaria,Darkest Hour,DevilDriver,In Flames,Killswitch Engage,Pantera,and MANY MANY more. Yes, some are devil worsphippers (Slayer) but the music is amazing

Yeah, and just because they eat beets, doesn't mean I am going to as well....

 

[Něco hrubého oprýskaného 1]

Jimmy Page was very much into the occult - he was a disciple of Aliester Crowley, a noted REAL Satanist.

I love hearsay evidence as much as the next Christian, but I have to say that:

Crowley was not a Satanist (*Gasp!*). Thelema is the name of his philosophical/religious system and you can read about it for yourself in The Book of the Law. The whole point of the philosophy is the inherent divinity of every human.

If you consider Crowley a Satanist, then it would be consistent to believe that Buddism and Hinduism are also Satanic (which actually isn't much of a stretch for some of our Christian brethren). "Satanic", for some people, means anything occult related. Personally, I believe that there's no excuse for mendacity...even if it's based in ignorance.

Crowley is often referred to as a Mystic.

Ironically, Crowley sometimes signed his writings "The Beast", or "Master Therion."

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"

 

[Sketcher]

Jimmy Page or Robert Plant, one of them bought Crowley's estate.....

Page. He didn't play with that stuff on the first two albums at all though, and whether he used it on songs besides Stairway I have no idea.

The whole point of the philosophy is the inherent divinity of every human.

Which isn't too far from the type of Satanism I learned about. It's not overt devil worship, but it's more like the opposite of Christianity. Rather than "love your neighbor as yourself", Satanism says "Do as you will". Isn't that LaVey's teaching? Which is all the devil really needs us to do anyway, because if humanity followed that to a T, we would eventually destroy ourselves.

But there are plenty of heavy bands that are NOT into the occult. And many many songs are about neutral things. Heavy music is my music, and I don't like hearing about that stuff or Christian bashing. I still have a decent amount of secular songs to listen to, as well as many Christian.

 

[Něco hrubého oprýskaného 1]

Which isn't too far from the type of Satanism I learned about. It's not overt devil worship, but it's more like the opposite of Christianity. Rather than "love your neighbor as yourself", Satanism says "Do as you will". Isn't that LaVey's teaching? Which is all the devil really needs us to do anyway, because if humanity followed that to a T, we would eventually destroy ourselves.

First of all, I'm presenting facts, not defending LaVey and Crowley on a personal level...please remember that. Sorry if I seem condescending...but there are many uninformed opinions in this forum.

LaVey (1930 - 1997) didn't preach Crowley's (1875 - 1947) system...he had his own.

Describing Thelema as Satanism isn't accurate, despite whatever superficial similarities people find between the two Beasts. Describing LaVey's "teaching" as truly Satanic is marginal in itself...but that's for another day's discussion.

Most intelligent people regard LaVey as an entertaining, but ridiculous circus freak...the only people who take him seriously are mental cripples and rock musicians (same with H.P. Lovecraft).

From what you're saying, Satanism is no different than Buddism, which strives for personal enlightenment and doesn't depend on external supernatural influences. Correct?

People use words incorrectly to justify their own uninformed bigotry. "Satanic" means occult. "Democratic" means good. "Fascist" means bad. "I have no idea who Che Guevara was but I have a poster of him on my wall"...etc

You can slam whatever you want, but at least try to have some idea of what you're really saying.

You can find a good essay on this subject (meaning of language) by George Orwell titled Politics and the English Language. http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/e/e_polit.htm

There is something to be said for being informed and knowing what you're talking about. Can you give me that?

 

[stonetoflesh]

Yes, some are devil worsphippers (Slayer) but the music is amazing

From every interview I've read with Slayer, they are NOT devil worshippers; the evil imagery and lyricism is there for shock value. I would think that if they were, they would openly admit it as King Diamond and other truly satanic groups have-- any publicity is good publicity, right? Openly admitting to something like that would really boost their street cred in some metal circles, I'm sure...
If you KNOW that Slayer does truly worship the devil (that is, you have interviews with the band members themselves testifying to this) I would love to see your sources.

 

[Něco hrubého oprýskaného 1]

Being an actor in a movie or on stage, you can play the Devil and no one will question your beliefs. However, if you're in a rock band and write a song about the Devil (from a first person POV), everyone thinks you're Satanic. It's incredibly stupid.

 

[stonetoflesh]

First of all, I'm presenting facts, not defending LaVey and Crowley on a personal level...please remember that. Sorry if I seem condescending...but there are many uminformed opinions in this forum.

LaVey (1930 - 1997) didn't preach Crowley's (1875 - 1947) system...he had his own.

Describing Thelema as Satanism isn't accurate, despite whatever superficial similarities people find between the two Beasts. Describing LaVey's "teaching" as truly Satanic is marginal in itself...but that's for another day's discussion.

Most intelligent people regard LaVey as an entertaining, but ridiculous circus freak...the only people who take him seriously are mental cripples and rock musicians (same with H.P. Lovecraft).

From what you're saying, Satanism is no different than Buddism, which strives for personal enlightenment and doesn't depend on external supernatural influences. Correct?

People use words incorrectly to justify their own uninformed bigotry. "Satanic" means occult. "Democratic" means good. "Fascist" means bad. "I have no idea who Che Guevara was but I have a poster of him on my wall"...etc

You can slam whatever you want, but at least try to have some idea of what you're really saying.

You can find a good essay on this subject (meaning of language) by George Orwell titled Politics and the English Language. http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/e/e_polit.htm

There is something to be said for being informed and knowing what you're talking about. Can you give me that?

Excellent post, sir! Love the bit about the Che Guevara poster, I've seen so many instances of that exact thing! Nice touch with the Orwell link, too...

 

[Něco hrubého oprýskaného 1]

Thanks Spacedout! Glad to know I'm not annoying EVERYONE.

 

[Sketcher]

Dude, you weren't annoying me, I was just sharing what I heard from a self-proclaimed Satanist a couple years ago. I never said you were agreeing with it either.

Following the logic of this person I chatted with previously, his brand of Satanism was the opposite of Christianity. Deity of man, as opposed to original sin. Choosing selfishness over love. Etc.

In a way I can see the similarity to Bhuddism. In that system, the ideal is that you just cut off everything from your mind until nothing matters to you anymore. Following this logic, it would seem that it advocates cutting your losses and detaching yourself from whatever may be endangering your family. In fact, don't even care about your family because something could happen to them or they could betray you.

But there are many flavors of New Age thinking. Bhuddism, occultism, and Hinduism have many common roots, but each system is so fragmented based on what the individual believes that you can't lump one Bhuddist in with another Bhuddist, much less a Wiccan.

Maybe we could start another thread on this in an appropriate forum or continue this in PMs.

 

[Něco hrubého oprýskaného 1]

Self-proclaimed Satanists are probably not the best sources for good information.

The OP was based on a fallacy anyway! "Black Sabbath and Zep are Satanic!" "Is metal Satanic?" I thought the actor/musician analogy was right on point!

Okay, Heavy Metal (and all of it's rami) is not inherently Satanic. There may be some musicians who dabble in the occult...maybe a couple who really are Satanic (Deicide, Morbid Angel, George Michael) What the purpose of this post was supposed to be, I'm not really sure. I took it somewhere more interesting. Give me a break, Thead Police!

Black Sabbath wasn't Satanic. The record company put the inverted cross on their first album. On Master of Reality, there's a song criticizing people who reject Christianity.

Black Sabbath - After Forever
written by: Ozzy Osbourne (I got this from some website...Ozzy Osbourne didn't write anything on the first few records...he just sang.)
From the album "Master Of Reality"
Have you ever thought about your soul - can it be saved?
Or perhaps you think that when you're dead you just stay in your grave
Is God just a thought within your head or is he a part of you?
Is Christ just a name that you read in a book when you were in school?
When you think about death do you lose your breath or do you keep your cool?
Would you like to see the Pope on the end of a rope - do you think he's a fool?
Well I have seen the truth, yes I've seen the light and I've changed my ways
And I'll be prepared when you're lonely and scared at the end of our days
Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say
If they knew you believe in God above?
They should realize before they criticize
that God is the only way to love
Is your mind so small that you have to fall
In with the pack wherever they run
Will you still sneer when death is near
And say they may as well worship the sun?
I think it was true it was people like you that crucified Christ
I think it is sad the opinion you had was the only one voiced
Will you be so sure when your day is near, say you don't believe?
You had the chance but you turned it down, now you can't retrieve
Perhaps you'll think before you say that God is dead and gone
Open your eyes, just realize that he's the one
The only one who can save you now from all this sin and hate
Or will you still jeer at all you hear? Yes! I think it's too late.

 

[cartridge]

Tool (bordering Metal), Placebo (alt Metal) SOAD, Static X, Disturbed, etc.

Its good stuff.

 

[Něco hrubého oprýskaného 1]

In a way I can see the similarity to Bhuddism. In that system, the ideal is that you just cut off everything from your mind until nothing matters to you anymore. Following this logic, it would seem that it advocates cutting your losses and detaching yourself from whatever may be endangering your family. In fact, don't even care about your family because something could happen to them or they could betray you.

This is what I'm talking about...If you have no real knowledge of a subject, why not avoid forming an opinion about it? How can you feel satisfied with "knowledge some guy gave me..."

-----------------------------------------------

While it's not the best source for everything...Wikipedia has a lot of basic information on various subjects.

Just a click away...effortless!

Buddism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddism
Crowley: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowley

Nothing good on LaVey, sorry to say.

The sources and the bottom are usually better than the Wikipedia article itself...but it's a start.

 

[Qyöt27]

There may be some musicians who dabble in the occult...maybe a couple who really are Satanic (Deicide, Morbid Angel, George Michael)

So true, so true!