Healing methods?

[Southernscotty]

Edited for privacy

 

[brinny]

God's will is ALWAYS preeminent.

It's about "God".

Not about "us".

He does NOT choose to ALWAYS "heal".

Paul learned this first-hand.

The question is, if we are willing to "bow" to God's will, forsaking our OWN "will", regardless of the outcome.

 

[RaymondG]

I dont place myself under any denominational category.....not even the category of "non-denom"

I agree with their view, up until the statements of non faith for the ones not healed......I believe there could be many other reasons as well....and faith is sometimes misunderstood.

I feel that those who believe their God says "no" have a good singular excuse why their prayers for themselves and others are not answered.....Therefore, they can still be leaders and not have their followers lose faith in them because of unanswered prayers, failed prophesies etc... because the declaimer was given from the beginning...."God may say no"

"God may say no" already shows that there isnt 100% faith in a Yes so the prayer need not be uttered....just let the chips fall where they are going to fall...as this would be God's will anyway....right?

When ye pray, believe that you HAVE received......and you WILL receive. You will not find "BUT I might say NO!" in any verses that follow.

So be careful what you ask for....because you WIll receive it.....If you know how to ask.

Imagine Hezekiah doing the log test while serving a god that "might say no" I imagine it was his rivals who served that god...therefore they could have been content in continuing to serve him believing that it just wasnt his will, or that he just said no that time.

see how dangerous this proposition can be?

 

[Tigger45]

I've learned the highest quality of faith is trusting in the Lord even when He says "not now" or flat out "no".

 

[Southernscotty]

I dont place myself under any denominational category.....not even the category of "non-denom"

I agree with their view, up until the statements of non faith for the ones not healed......I believe there could be many other reasons as well....and faith is sometimes misunderstood.

I feel that those who believe their God says "no" have a good singular excuse why their prayers for themselves and others are not answered.....Therefore, they can still be leaders and not have their followers lose faith in them because of unanswered prayers, failed prophesies etc... because the declaimer was given from the beginning...."God may say no"

"God may say no" already shows that there isnt 100% faith in a Yes so the prayer need not be uttered....just let the chips fall where they are going to fall...as this would be God's will anyway....right?

When ye pray, believe that you HAVE received......and you WILL receive. You will not find "BUT I might say NO!" in any verses that follow.

So be careful what you ask for....because you WIll receive it.....If you know how to ask.

Imagine Hezekiah doing the log test while serving a god that "might say no" I imagine it was his rivals who served that god...therefore they could have been content in continuing to serve him believing that it just wasnt his will, or that he just said no that time.

see how dangerous this proposition can be?

I don't doubt God's ability friend. HE can perform anything.
Why is His will not to be considered? Perhaps His will is contrary to the healing, Should we still persist ?

 

[Hazelelponi]

If God's will was always yes to our requests and healing had everything to do with faith then Paul would have been healed.. instead, his thorn in the side taught him humility.

WE are to get OUR wills into lockstep with God's Will, THEN our prayers will always be answered with a yes, because we won't be asking for things outside of God's perfect Will. (That is the goal)

God is not a Santa Claus or a genie in a bottle who fulfills all our desires.. We are His servants.. He is not ours.

In this life we will have tests, trials, and temptations, and thinking God is here to do our will is nothing short of a teaching against scripture.

 

[Emli]

I agree with you. God says NO all the time in Scripture, why? Because we're stubborn. But He also say YES all the time, why? Because He loves us.

"When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures." James 4:3

I don't know a lot about healing yet. I have the gift of healing, and I have been healed and seen others be healed, but each time I have been led by the Holy Spirit. Sometimes it has required sacrifice and repentance, and sometimes only faith, but each time I knew that it was God's perfect will and His good pleasure. And when He has said NO, sometimes I have kept praying until I have met His requirements, or sometimes I have just accepted it. It's all about learning how to listen and become an obedient child led by His Spirit. And He loves to teach us.

We have to pray according to God's will, but His will isn't always obvious. It is much more important that we learn to be wise and understand His perfect will, than the actual healing in itself (or whatever we are praying for). And we must never, ever allow ourselves to be spoiled. People today are so used to quick fixes, and sometimes God does give us a quick fix, but usually suffering is good for us. Being uncomfortable instead of soothing the flesh helps us rely on Him, so He will not always heal us, and He will also not always want us to be medicated either.

God loves to heal. I know that it gives Him joy. He will freely provide healing to anyone if their heart is right with Him, over and over. But not if we stay stubborn or rebellious, and not if we take Him for granted and try to use Him like a genie that grants wishes.

In everything you do, do it all for the Glory of God! Who will please God the most? Will a preacher who is seeking signs and wonders but who may not be preaching obedience to Christ, or will a nurse that is learning selfless love by caring for her patients? Sometimes we need a thorn in the flesh to keep us weak, so we become humble, and sometimes we may need someone else to care for us so we learn to show vulnerability. Sometimes we just need to cry and cry until we've let out all of our emotional pain before God takes our physical pain away.

Just my two cents. It's a complicated subject, isn't it?

 

[Hazelelponi]

I agree with you. God says NO all the time in Scripture, why? Because we're stubborn. But He also say YES all the time, why? Because He loves us.

"When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures." James 4:3

I don't know a lot about healing yet. I have the gift of healing, and I have been healed and seen others be healed, but each time I have been led by the Holy Spirit. Sometimes it has required sacrifice and repentance, and sometimes only faith, but each time I knew that it was God's perfect will and His good pleasure. And when He has said NO, sometimes I have kept praying until I have met His requirements, or sometimes I have just accepted it. It's all about learning how to listen and become an obedient child led by His Spirit. And He loves to teach us.

We have to pray according to God's will, but His will isn't always obvious. It is much more important that we learn to be wise and understand His perfect will, than the actual healing in itself (or whatever we are praying for). And we must never, ever allow ourselves to be spoiled. People today are so used to quick fixes, and sometimes God does give us a quick fix, but usually suffering is good for us. Being uncomfortable instead of soothing the flesh helps us rely on Him, so He will not always heal us, and He will also not always want us to be medicated either.

God loves to heal. I know that it gives Him joy. He will freely provide healing to anyone if their heart is right with Him, over and over. But not if we stay stubborn or rebellious, and not if we take Him for granted and try to use Him like a genie that grants wishes.

In everything you do, do it all for the Glory of God! Who will please God the most? Will a preacher who is seeking signs and wonders but who may not be preaching obedience to Christ, or will a nurse that is learning selfless love by caring for her patients? Sometimes we need a thorn in the flesh to keep us weak, so we become humble, and sometimes we may need someone else to care for us so we learn to show vulnerability. Sometimes we just need to cry and cry until we've let out all of our emotional pain before God takes our physical pain away.

Just my two cents. It's a complicated subject, isn't it?

I have a disease which leaves me in intense pain all the time..

I honestly would not be who i am today if i hadn't gotten hurt.. I don't think I would have been saved, because I wasn't talking to God before all this. Not like getting hurt caused me to..

Not only that, but when my daughter was dying of cancer I had the ability to truly understand her pain, and she had the comfort of that understanding.. that shoulder she would not otherwise have had - and i wouldn't trade even a day of this pain for that..

My husband and I haven't been married long, but he has the gift of healing.. his hands are very hot all the time and he's the only person whose able to touch me without causing pain.

He can relieve the pain some, if I'm crying in pain he can touch me and the pain calm down enough for me to rest.. but it's never just gone away completely. I've prayed for healing, but I'm here anyway so all i can conclude is this is where God wants me, and that's really okay with me.

I know God now, and that's what really matters.. anything else is just icing, and I'm not sure I need the icing at all.. I'm good with actual needs met.

And often, that's pretty good.

 

[RaymondG]

I don't doubt God's ability friend. HE can perform anything.
Why is His will not to be considered? Perhaps His will is contrary to the healing, Should we still persist ?

His will is that we believe on Him and His word. And we are told to try Him and see. Doesnt sound like a God that wants you to believe that he will say no.

"Delight thyself also in the Lord: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart"
"And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive."

What you are suggesting is the Jesus did not mean what he said. He gave no exceptions...man put in the ifs and buts and caused us to believe them......therefore now....we only ask amiss....the outcome being determined by the winds at the time....no longer our belief in Gods word.

One should not persist in prayer, nay, one should not pray for the healing at all.....if he believes that it is a 50-50 proposition. If you believe you have no affect of God's will, then let God's will be done....why bother praying about it?

 

[Emli]

I have a disease which leaves me in intense pain all the time..

I honestly would not be who i am today if i hadn't gotten hurt.. I don't think I would have been saved, because I wasn't talking to God before all this. Not like getting hurt caused me to..

Not only that, but when my daughter was dying of cancer I had the ability to truly understand her pain, and she had the comfort of that understanding.. that shoulder she would not otherwise have had - and i wouldn't trade even a day of this pain for that..

My husband and I haven't been married long, but he has the gift of healing.. his hands are very hot all the time and he's the only person whose able to touch me without causing pain.

He can relieve the pain some, if I'm crying in pain he can touch me and the pain calm down enough for me to rest.. but it's never just gone away completely. I've prayed for healing, but I'm here anyway so all i can conclude is this is where God wants me, and that's really okay with me.

I know God now, and that's what really matters.. anything else is just icing, and I'm not sure I need the icing at all.. I'm good with actual needs met.

And often, that's pretty good.

What a beautiful testimony. God uses our suffering for so much. You sound very blessed! Amen, knowing God is all that matters!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Theirs
God has already given us everything we need for healing, We pray for people and if they are not healed, Then someone is lacking faith. God heals every time and we should never ask for God's will, Because He has already answered, and His will is always yes.

A girl from this congregation is even quitting her job because of this view, She works in a juvenile, Youth "help type facility" She is quitting because she disagrees with them giving the kids medicine, when they "just need to be healed" and everyone at church agreed with her.
They believe in taking no medicine and that we as priest and kings of God are representative of God and have authority over every situation by speaking it what we want.

This is a doctrine that has caused premature death and untold suffering, when medical help and medicine would have solved the issue quickly. People have died from relatively minor and curable medical conditions because this goofy doctrine. Maybe at the turn of the 20th Century when Pentecostalism was young, medicine was not advanced as it is now, and many operations were just short of butchery. But these days, medicine has advanced to the degree that the majority of medical conditions can be cure by doctors and hospitals. I believe that these advanced in medical technology have been of God, and work alongside the ministry of divine healing to relieve the suffering of people. The pastors and teachers of that church should be sacked, and replaced with more realistic leaders who will not allow good people to die because of a goofball doctrine.

The modern day miracles of healing usually happen to incurable folk and those with disabilities that cannot be corrected by medical science. If my headache can be resolved by taking a couple of Panadol tablets, why should God do it otherwise?

"They shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover". "Call for the elders of the church..." etc. Recovery takes time. It is not instantaneous. If it were, that would be the working of a miracle.

This is not to prevent the laying on of hands for healing. We do this out of obedience to God's Word and not for results. Results are in the hands of the Lord. God is sovereign. He can choose to heal directly or through medical science. Many healings come to unsaved folk to show them the love of Christ in order for them to be saved. For Christians, what say they get sick, prayed for and then die? They go straight into the presence of the Lord, which is far better for them.

So I reckon that we should direct our healing ministry to the unsaved, because that is where it is sorely needed, and the Lord is more likely to come to the party, because He is a good God and wants to save people, and if a miracle of healing will accomplish that, then He will do it without hesitation, because the issues are more crucial, because if an unsaved person gets sick and dies, they go to hell. God doesn't want that, but how can He healed unsaved people if Christians stay in their pews and not get out into the community and start offering the healing ministry to them?

 

[Emli]

If my headache can be resolved by taking a couple of Panadol tablets, why should God do it otherwise?

God has many times healed my migraines and headaches when I was "practicing" using my gift of healing.

I'm not advocating not taking medicine, but that was much better.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

God has many times healed my migraines and headaches when I was "practicing" using my gift of healing.

I'm not advocating not taking medicine, but that was much better.

Migraines are something that is not easily cured by medical science. One can only manage them, so I could readily believe that it is in the range of miracle healing if God decided to go that way.

 

[Emli]

Migraines are something that is not easily cured by medical science. One can only manage them, so I could readily believe that it is in the range of miracle healing if God decided to go that way.

That is true. And they cause so much more than just pain. I also believe that God would want to heal someone rather them taking pills with addictive substances or that have other side effects.

All medical science isn't good. Once again, not advocating not taking medicine, but we have to be careful.

I once went to a doctor because I was burnt out from stress and from work, and needed to rest, I needed a medical certificate for the benefits. She insisted that I should take anti-depressants. I said I didn't need it, because I wasn't depressed, I was just physically ill from stress, and that I used to take them and had bad side effects. She then saw my cross necklace, got angry, looked at me and tried to push me into taking anti-psychotics, said I needed them. I refused, but agreed to see a therapist, to whom I gave my testimony on how God healed my BPD. She was amazed and said I should work for them instead of being a patient.

Then I quit my job and waited for God, who got me back into shape in very little time. Gave me a new job and a healing ministry.

 

[Greg J.]

...
Theirs
God has already given us everything we need for healing, We pray for people and if they are not healed, Then someone is lacking faith. God heals every time and we should never ask for God's will, Because He has already answered, and His will is always yes.

A girl from this congregation is even quitting her job because of this view, She works in a juvenile, Youth "help type facility" She is quitting because she disagrees with them giving the kids medicine, when they "just need to be healed" and everyone at church agreed with her.
They believe in taking no medicine and that we as priest and kings of God are representative of God and have authority over every situation by speaking it what we want.

Such a big topic. We only have the resources we do for healing (doctors, medicine, etc.) because God has given them to us. Who wants to tell me that a doctor helping an infant out of a birthing mother is doing Satan's work? People who don't believe in things like medicine are experiencing an emergency spiritual crisis, but if they don't want to believe the truth, the only thing that can be done for them is pray. They have believed a teaching that has objectified faith and is (poorly) filling a desperate need for acceptance, when in fact, ideally faith shouldn't even be a topic taught to such people (at first)—it is the truth about Jesus that needs to be taught. As a result, if they believe what is true about Jesus, then they have the faith and don't need to know the "faith" label for it. The real thing won't even seem like their (objectified) idea of what faith is.

Jesus' death and a Christian's acceptance as God as their Lord removes all the barriers to our loving God healing a person—except for two things: (1) our bodies are still tainted with sin and we live in a fallen world, and it will never be healed from all the effects of sin; it is going to eventually die. (2) I really haven't seen people understand what faith is who have not received a gift of faith from God at some point. That teaching you relayed about "lacking faith" is a false teaching. However you can say that someone is not healed because they lack faith as long as you convey that it is not their fault that they lack the faith (cf. my final paragraph). It is God that decides when and to whom he grants the faith through which he heals.

The disconnect is that people think they have the faith for healing when they do not. Here's the test: if you believe you have faith for healing, then you will be healed. If you are not healed, then your faith is hope or intellectual assent. It is easy to slip from faith that "God heals" to "God will heal me," but that is not necessarily true. That hope comes from wanting to be healed and knowing that God can heal. No one on earth is getting the love and affirmation they need (separated from God) and we develop ways of thinking to comfort ourselves (wish-fulfillment) such as this. (When people are hurting, it is not usually the time for a Bible lesson; it is time to come along side them and suffer with them.)

There is no such thing as "I'm healed except I don't experience it because of my lack of faith." If you want to know if you are healed, check your body.
When someone actually has God-given faith (and it only comes from God, Ephesians 2:8), then the topic in question will cease to be of interest. You will have complete peace that God is in control about it. It becomes a non-issue. If it still troubles you or you feel you have to do something, then you have not received the gift of faith from God. More than likely you are trying to will yourself to have it.

The solution to all this is to have been building the foundation of your faith on the rock who is Jesus Christ for years (Matthew 7:24-27). It's never too late to start. Notice the use of the word "all" in Mark 12:30.

Lastly, it can be argued that a person is at fault for their lack of faith for not building their lives on the rock of Jesus, and because of that, are not healed. However, this is false. Plenty of people who have built their house on the rock don't get healed, but what they have is a certain level of peace and confidence that God will take care of them no matter what happens.

 

[Greg J.]

God heals every time and we should never ask for God's will, Because He has already answered, and His will is always yes.

Oh, I wanted to address this. This is contrary to so much Scripture, it isn't even funny. I could probably find evidence for the opposite on half the pages of the Bible.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Oh, I wanted to address this. This is contrary to so much Scripture, it isn't even funny. I could probably find evidence for the opposite on half the pages of the Bible.

While healing has already been provided for us in the Atonement through the broken body of Jesus, as well as the shed blood of Jesus to cleanse us from sin, we have to have a bit of common sense about how we apply it.

In the last 2000 years there have been major advances in medical science that did not exist in Bible times, and therefore in the time of Jesus and Acts there were more incurable conditions that are easily curable today through medical science. In actual fact the major discoveries in medical science were made by Christian believers, and hospitals were first set up by Christian organisations.

At the turn of the 20th century, medical science was still pretty primitive and that is why the early Pentecostals believed that going to the doctor for medical help was a lack of faith. This resulted in many preventable deaths and suffering among well meaning believers who "trusted" in God when if they used common sense they could have gained medical help and be cured.

It's like the guy who got caught in a flood and ended up on the roof of his house with the floodwaters rising. He asked God to rescue him and immediately there came along a guy in a rowboat, but the guy on the roof said, "No. I'm waiting for the Lord to rescue me." Then along came a helicopter, but the guy said, "No, I don't need you. I'm waiting for the Lord to rescue me." Presently the floodwaters rose and the guy got drowned. He got to heaven and asked the Lord why He didn't rescue him. The Lord replied, "What do you mean? I sent along rowboat and a helicopter. Why didn't you use them?"

So, there are preventable and curable sicknesses that can quite easily be resolved by the doctor. This is why the Lord has caused advances in medical science in order to treat curable sicknesses and diseases.

Also, for Christians, healing is not as much of an issue as for non-Christians. If a Christian gets sick and dies, he or she goes straight to heaven and be with the Lord. The non-Christian dies and goes to hell. So this is why there is more divine healing among non-Christians in the course of evangelism.

In the ministry of Kathryn Khulman the most notable healing that took place were the incurable ones where the doctors had given up hope.

But many Christians seek the Lord for the healing of minor sicknesses and diseases, and the Holy Spirit directs them to go see the doctor. But because of their strict religious stance on healing, they fail to listen and decide to "trust the Lord'. Then when they are not healed, the blame the Lord. But the Lord would say to them, "But I told you go to the doctor because he had the right medicine to resolve your medical issues. Why did you not listen?" Case closed.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I do not believe that God's answer is "always" yes because as a human race, We have freewill and we are given choices in life. We are presented with different routes and we must choose the path that leads to salvation. We know that particular path is narrow and few will find it, But it is the only way.
I laid in bed, after service contemplating this last night and I would like others input here :]

"For lack of (experiential) knowledge (in Jesus) My (Yahweh's) people PERISH" ?
Physical, spiritual or either/or ?

In any case, believers and non-believers perish, daily.

In some or many cases, it is "for lack of (experiential) knowledge" (either of Jesus, or of the way to be made whole/ healthy/ Yahweh's Way) .....

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

"For lack of (experiential) knowledge (in Jesus) My (Yahweh's) people PERISH" ?
Physical, spiritual or either/or ?

In any case, believers and non-believers perish, daily.

In some or many cases, it is "for lack of (experiential) knowledge" (either of Jesus, or of the way to be made whole/ healthy/ Yahweh's Way) .....

This is a quote from Hosea 4:6 and the context is about Israel abandoning the Lord and following after other Gods. God has rejected the priests (next verse) because thy are offering up sacrifices to Baal and Asterah instead of to the Lord. This was the reason why God instructed Hosea to marry a prostitute to show how that Israel has prostituted itself with gods other than her true God.

This has nothing to do with Christian believers at all. We must be careful not to misquote the Word of God and make it say something it does not say. True believers are born again of the Spirit of God. They are new creations in Christ, and there is no way that Hosea 4:6 could ever apply to them.

It may very well apply to unbelievers because they could perish for lack of knowledge of what the gospel of Christ means to them. That I can accept, but to try to apply this to Christian believers is just plain nonsense and a misuse of God's Holy Word.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Migraines are something that is not easily cured by medical science. One can only manage them, so I could readily believe that it is in the range of miracle healing if God decided to go that way.

Look up a doctor who started in Germany about 100 years ago.
He had migraines.
He learned how to CURE his own migraines.
Then he taught many others how to do this.
It still works. (most of the time)

 

[RaymondG]

Oh, I wanted to address this. This is contrary to so much Scripture, it isn't even funny. I could probably find evidence for the opposite on half the pages of the Bible.

Can you give an example in scripture where God states that if you ask for something you wont receive it?