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"He who practices righteousness is righteous" (1 John 3:7)

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by BCsenior, Apr 14, 2021.

  1. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Well, like Charles Stanley to name just one.

    For Charles Stanley says:

    "Sometimes you and I may resort to looking and acting like we used to behave before we were saved, but just because we behave that way doesn't mean we have lost our salvation....But let's look at the Prodigal Son for just a moment.... So, here he is living in sin and his lifestyle is such that's absolutely wicked....Let me tell you something. When you are born again by the grace of Almighty God, and you become a child of God, you are born again. You become a new creation in Christ. You are adopted into the family of God. It doesn't make any difference how wicked and how vile you act....You never get away with sin. But it doesn't mean because you sin against God, God rejects you for your disobedience because in this story, God is pictured as running toward a backsliding son who came home to his father."​

    Charles Stanley says:

    "And so, sometimes out of ignorance or whatever it might be, they attempt to gratify and meet those needs the same way they did before they were saved, and therefore, you can't tell a carnal believer from a lost man. That is, you can't tell the cold from the carnal because the truth is, they're both acting the same way. Now, one of them is in Christ and one of them isn't. One of them is lost and the other one is in Christ. One of them knows about God and knows him in the experience of salvation; the other doesn't know him at all."

    And he is not the only one who teaches this. I can name a ton more who profess similar things. Most believe in a sin and still be saved type belief today. They think they will be chastised if they sin, and sin is no big deal. But in reality: The Bible talks about how living in sin brings spiritual death unless a believer repents or seeks forgiveness with the Lord and they strive to fight and battle in overcoming such sin (By God's power and might).
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
  2. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Obedience come from our faith in Lord Jesus:

    Romans 1:4-5 (ESV)
    4 and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations

    Romans 16:25-27 (ESV) 25 Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages 26 but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith — 27 to the only wise God be glory forevermore through Jesus Christ! Amen.

    The Spirit leads as we follow by faith

    The Spirit only leads us as we are faithful to follow Jesus, which is to live, walk, and sow to the Spirit who indwells us (Romans 8:12-14; Galatians 6:7-9; Galatians 5:13-25).

    We demonstrate that Gospel Faith in the ways the Apostles warned and admonished us – to live holy lives onto God in righteousness and love.

    Therefore
    , we are admonished to persevere in the faith against temptations, suffering, and persecution (James 1:2-4; 2 Thessalonians 1:5; Matthew 24:9), against falling away (1 Corinthians 10:1-14), or drifting away (Hebrews 2:1-3) and from grieving the Spirit (Ephesians 4:30-32), quenching the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19-22), and insulting the Spirit (Hebrews 10:29-31) who indwells us by this Gospel Faith (John 7:37-39; Act 5:32).

    We are commanded to remain faithful, and we are judged by our faithfulness to God to the end, living by His Spirit. As we do so, the Spirit will lead us.

    Romans 8:12-14 (ESV)
    12 So then, brothers and sisters, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

    We, ourselves, if we truly believe in Jesus, are to die to the old life and become servants onto righteousness - that is our responsibility before God - that is what the new life is.

    Romans 6:12-14 (ESV)
    12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

    By faith in Jesus, if we truly repented and put our faith in Jesus, then we will deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Him. That is our responsibility.

    Luke 9:23-25 (ESV)
    23 And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. 24 For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will save it. 25 For what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses or forfeits himself?

    Blessings
     
  3. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    Actually, I wasn't.
    The statement was made that if a preacher doesn't preach against sin, they are condoning it. My reply was that different people define sin differently.
    Some people might say that those who don't tithe are sinning. Others might say, and have on these forums, that not abstaining from pork or not keeping the Sabbath, was a sin. Others might see drinking alcohol, or smoking as sins.

    So preaching against specific sins would mean a) that sermons were full of "don't do X, and doing Y is sinful" and b) that there would be no consistency; one church would welcome people who smoked and didn't tithe, while another would condemn both.

    Some of the above are nothing to do with putting our will first; some who read the Bible in a certain way might genuinely regard smoking, eating pork and drinking alcohol as sins. They might argue that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit and these things are defiling that temple. While others might see those things as being unwise, but not sinful.
    And this is before you even address matters like abortion, divorce and remarriage, gay issues etc.

    All I was trying to say was that if preachers don't preach against these things each week, it doesn't mean that they condone them - Jesus didn't.
     
  4. MMXX

    MMXX Well-Known Member

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    How do you distinguish what you're saying from those who teach a works based performance based earn your way to heaven salvation?
     
  5. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but there is a misunderstanding. I didn't mean you were nit-picking, but that preachers don't need to nit-pick over what is sin when God says there is really only one sin under which all sub-sins that man can come up with fall under.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
  6. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    Oh ok; sorry.
    I agree.
     
  7. MMXX

    MMXX Well-Known Member

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    I'm not talking about ignoring/rejecting. I said on how well I obey. Either an obedient Christian is going to be perfectly obedient, or he's going to fall short of that standard. And he's aware that he falls short, and he prays for the Holy Spirit to help him to do better.

    There's always this weird situation where a Christian says we all disobey to a degree and sin to a degree, or we all don't obey as well as we should and don't practice righteousness as well as we should. Which often seems to get interpreted as that Christian saying it's okay to ignore, rebel against and reject the Lord.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
  8. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    The scripture says: No one is righteous, no not one.

    This means BCsenior is not righteous, no, not at all.

    Same for everyone else.

    The good news is that Jesus is the Lord our righteousness.
     
  9. MMXX

    MMXX Well-Known Member

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    That I agree with completely. But I wasn't responding to the OP. I was responding to someone else's post about those who ultimately preach a works based performance based salvation. I think even those who aren't espousing such, sometimes come on so strong, that's what it sounds like.

    Probably most will agree that what it comes down to is a proactive willingness to obey and a desire and a striving towards righteousness. Often though it isn't said that way, instead it's delivered on harsher terms than that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
  10. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You missed a few!

    Genesis 14:6; Romans 4:3-5; Romans 4:6-10; Psalms 106:31; Romans 4:20-24;

    Calvin comments, “It is not he, whom he calls a worker, who is given to good works, to which all the children of God ought to attend, but the person who seeks to merit something by his works: and in a similar way he calls him no worker who depends not on the merit of what he does."
     
  11. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes, you are right that we must be counted righteous to be invited into heaven, but no, not from the verses you posted above.

    That is Eisegesis, unless you simply didn't say quite what you mean. Just saying....

    See, it is this kind of carelessness of hermeneutic that produces a whole doctrine out of a man-made concept.
     
  12. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    True saving faith ... enduring until death: deep heart-felt belief, faith, trust, necessarily resulting in righteousness, obedience. Produced by the Holy Spirit who has taken up residence within the BAC.

    (BTW, we don't generally call them OSAS verses, nor do we consider what verses oppose them --we deal in passages, and quote verses for brevity.)

    Exegesis, and good use of Scripture (hermeneutics) demands more than individual verses. NO verses oppose other verses.
     
  13. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What did he say that suggested otherwise?
     
  14. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Read the whole thing in context, understanding Calvin's use of language. To do otherwise is to misuse, even to misquote, a person.
     
  15. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hammster didn't say otherwise.

    The OP says the verses posted in the OP show that righteousness is necessary to be accepted into Heaven. The verses do NOT (of themselves) say that, even though it be true.
     
  16. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    As has been said, "Sin is not 'normal', but it is 'usual'."
     
  17. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I know exactly what he said... And I don't disagree.

    Do you?

    OP's like this appear to depend upon man's own merit for salvation... which is falsehood.
     
  18. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    FWIW Calvinists/ Reformed do not believe in 'Automatic' as such. We DO believe God will complete what he has begun, and that the BAC will indeed work and be obedient. In fact, you will find it hard to find a well-known Reformer who (if asked about it) does not insist on the necessity for diligence and discipline.
     
  19. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree completely with what he said. But your quote of him can easily be taken to mean what they want it to mean, who oppose Calvin.
     
  20. Butterball1

    Butterball1 Well-Known Member

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    Charles Stanley thinks so. In his book titled "Eternal Security: Can you Be Sure?" Dr. Stanley writes: "The Bible clearly teaches that God's love for His people is of such magnitude that even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand” (p. 74). Earlier in the book Dr. Stanley writes: "Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy… believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation”.
     
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