He wants EVERYONE saved?

[OzSpen]

I had no intention of answering. I don't really care about what you said. I'm just wondering why you are stalking me.

That's inflammatory language towards me.

 

[Hammster]

That's inflammatory language towards me.

Red herring.

 

[OzSpen]

Red herring.

False accusation!

When you asked, ' I'm just wondering why you are stalking me', you were perpetrating a red herring fallacy. What I said was spot on.

Bye.

 

[Hammster]

False accusation!

When you asked, ' I'm just wondering why you are stalking me', you were perpetrating a red herring fallacy. What I said was spot on.

Bye.

You've not answered my question. Therefore, red herring.

 

[98cwitr]

it is impossible for us to be with out sin in these bodies as they have sin living in them as Paul said. We must take up our cross denie our desires and follow God daily. It is a daily battle. Are spirit is new of God and clean our flesh is filthy. We will be given new bodies to match our spirit. Even in the old covenant we were forgiven by faith, even the prophets sinned. That is brings glory to God is Jesus was the only one to fulfill the Law and not sin and it was written for that purpose that His glory would be seen.

Stop beating your self up. All have fallen short of the glory of God. Just say that you do not understand what John meant, but you have faith in God that when he says He saves you He has. Live out the two greatest commandments Love, and do you best not to sin, but if you do ask for forgiveness and get back up and try again.

Again...1 John 3:9, we cannot have a contradiction here no matter how much we wish to ignore it or skirt around it.

You want me to lie to you all? Want me to say something that contradicts what is clearly written? What is not to understand regarding 1 John 3:9, or 5:18 for that matter? I cannot say that because I do not know it to be Truth. You tell me that all have fallen short, but Scripture seems to tell us that we, a new creation, do not continue to do so on a daily basis. Christ didn't say "try your best," He said be perfect.

18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

Paul says early on: Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

What does he mean by "while we were," why didn't he use a present tense verb here? Why not say "while we are still sinners..."

Something to ponder there....

 

[MWood]

While we were still sinners was before His death. After His death our sins were forgiven.

 

[Jonathan95]

"But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life." (John 5:40 NKJV)

"not willing" - This implies free will. Also, if they couldn't come to Christ just because they were predestined to hell, then why'd Jesus say this?

"How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God?" (John 5:44 NKJV)

Implies they could seek the honor that comes from God?

 

[98cwitr]

"But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life." (John 5:40 NKJV)

"not willing" - This implies free will. Also, if they couldn't come to Christ just because they were predestined to hell, then why'd Jesus say this?

"How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God?" (John 5:44 NKJV)

Implies they could seek the honor that comes from God?

Actually I don't think it does. Answer me this, why weren't they willing? Why don't they seek?

You might want to look at the next chapter: John 6:37-44 and then at John 15. Coming back full circle from the OP, what about 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12?

 

[Avid]

Matthew 5:48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

--- etc.---

... I dont count myself "born again" either...and that reason is because I cannot find a loophole around these verses.

As we have discussed before: Do not accept a counterfeit. It is your very soul that is in the balances. The Judge will come shortly.

Never rest in convictions till they end in conversion. This is that wherein most men miscarry; they rest in their convictions, and take them for conversion, as if sin seen were therefore forgiven, as if a sight of the want of grace were the truth of the work of grace.
Matthew Mead (1629−1699)

It is hard for a man to let go a hope of heaven, on which he hath once allowed himself to lay hold, and which he hath retained for a considerable time. True conversion is a rare thing; but that men should be brought off from a false hope of conversion, after they are once settled and established in it, and have continued in it for some time, is much more rare.
Jonathan Edwards (1703−1758)
​

John Bunyan had a verse come to him in his heart when he was at the time of deepest concern for his own soul, and at the deepest need for encouragement. He said the following verse gave him comfort that he was doing the right thing by seeking the truth from God, and that the deliverance he sought would come.

Habakkuk 2
3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.
​

I, too, took encouragement in this as I was seeking the things the LORD had shown me from His word, and was determined not to accept a counterfeit religion as I had before. As a child, and a number of times as a youth, I had exercised faith in the things the LORD had set before me, though the people who were teaching me may not have had those things working in their own lives. That part is not my concern - I had to be faithful myself.

It was made imperative to my heart that I seek these things, and not let up. I trust you will do the same.

Deliverances, my friend, are the grand evidences to look to. No other evidences will satisfy a needy, naked soul, and they are what a wise man will chiefly look to in estimating others. He will not, indeed, pass by, or think lightly of the sighing of the prisoner, but he will consider the knocking−off the fettered captive's chains a better evidence than his lying in the dungeon. And whatever some may think about the most searching ministry being that which deals chiefly with dark evidences, I have not the least doubt that that ministry will be the most cutting, and at the same time the most establishing, which deals most in deliverances.
J. C. Philpot (1802−1869)
​

.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Read Romans 7, here from the NASB:

"14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold [m]into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

21 I find then the [n]principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God [o]in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in [p]the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner [q]of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from [r]the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin."

You think Paul was saved at the point he wrote this?

 

[Jonathan95]

Actually I don't think it does. Answer me this, why weren't they willing? Why don't they seek?

You might want to look at the next chapter: John 6:37-44 and then at John 15. Coming back full circle from the OP, what about 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12?

Doesn't imply that the ones that the Father haven't given Jesus aren't given because they were already predestined to hell. It doesn't say that they were given to Jesus before they were born or similar either.

 

[Avid]

...You think Paul was saved at the point he wrote this?

Whether "Saved" or not, the context must be considered to include Romans 6 and Romans 8. Read all three together, and the worldly view that is so prevalent is not plausible.

One of the early proponents of the "Carnal Christian Theory" was Rev. C.I. Scofield, D.D., of the popular Scofield Reference Bible, © 1909, etc. In the notes for Romans Chapter 7, we have:

"Just when the apostle passed through the experience of Rom. 7. 7-25 we are not told. Perhaps during the days of physical blindness at Damascus (Acts 9. 9); perhaps in Arabia (Gal. 1. 17)."
​

As Paul was considering the things he would suffer for Christ's name in those three days being blind in Damascus, he definitely would have experienced this, as anyone who faces the truth about their fallen human nature will. If this took longer than that, he would have felt this way while the depth of God's holy truth was revealed to him as he was three years separated for the purpose in Arabia. Nevertheless, the apostle asks the question, "Who shall deliver me from this body of death? I thank God through Jesus Christ..."

Any who wish to be delivered from what was described in those verses should seek the LORD Jesus Christ as did the Apostle Paul.

Romans 6
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 8
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
​

A new religion has been built around the idea that (not the author, but) the writer of the bulk of the New Testament did not have victory over sin, nor was pleasing to God?!? Somehow this, taken out of its proper context, is THE DEFINING CHAPTER of Paul's life.

How would he then write in the next chapter that this is NOT the life of one in whom the Holy Spirit of God dwells? If we do not have the Holy Spirit of God dwelling in our heart, we are NONE OF HIS. Jesus will not know us at the great day of judgment.

There are some really smart people who believe that idea, though, and it is widespread in its influence. It doesn't go back much more than a hundred years, but it has grown like wildfire. There is a lot of company on that road, and very prominent company at that.

.

 

[98cwitr]

Doesn't imply that the ones that the Father haven't given Jesus aren't given because they were already predestined to hell. It doesn't say that they were given to Jesus before they were born or similar either.

Why does God create people who He knows will never believe then? Doesn't He know that Person A is going to Hell prior to their creation, and yet He decides to create them anyway?

 

[Jonathan95]

Double post, sorry.

 

[Jonathan95]

Why does God create people who He knows will never believe then? Doesn't He know that Person A is going to Hell prior to their creation, and yet He decides to create them anyway?

I don't know. However, even if He knew, it still doesn't mean the Calvinistic view is right.

 

[Hammster]

I don't know. However, even if He knew, it still doesn't mean the Calvinistic view is right.

Does He love those He sends to hell as much as those He brings to heaven?

 

[98cwitr]

I don't know. However, even if He knew, it still doesn't mean the Calvinistic view is right.

OK...so what does it mean then? Give it some real thought...and post back when you have come to a solid conclusion that actually answers the question.

 

[FredVB]

We are not in the Creator's position. There is confusion of perceiving God knows which of those who are created will perish and go to hell with whether we all have opportunity or not. Yahweh does know all things, but all people are created with a purpose to be in relationship with God, and the opportunity for each is still real. Though God knows the whole process and result in every case, it is not God determining everything, but each individual is making choices with their own responsibility. God gives enough grace for all, not wanting any to perish. I personally think that means that for any that would be cut off early, they get a time in some way afterward, even possibly in further life, for having the opportunity, but all must have that, it is God's own work that will have salvation happen accordingly.

 

[Andrew12]

To simplify a very complex idea, God gave us free will, therefore we have the ability to make choices that affect the course of our lives. God sees all the potential choices and outcomes, therefore He creates persons with the ability to choose salvation if they so desire, but the choice is theirs to make. In a perfect world we'd all choose salvation, but because of sin and man's carnal nature some men choose otherwise blinded by sin and the flesh.

Andrew, Voice in the Wilderness Ministries

 

[Hammster]

To simplify a very complex idea, God gave us free will, therefore we have the ability to make choices that affect the course of our lives. God sees all the potential choices and outcomes, therefore He creates persons with the ability to choose salvation if they so desire, but the choice is theirs to make. In a perfect world we'd all choose salvation, but because of sin and man's carnal nature some men choose otherwise blinded by sin and the flesh.

Andrew, Voice in the Wilderness Ministries

So what make you different from those who don't choose to repent and obey?