Having relationship issues, need advice.

[Brenden Smith]

Me (M 19) and my girlfriend (20) have been dating for 3 years. I know we’re pretty young, but we have an apartment together in Los Angeles. I’m a Lutheran and conservative. She’s a pagan and liberal. We’ve known throughout our relationship that we have different views on religion and politics, but it never stopped us from having a healthy relationship. Well for about a month now I have been starting to think about the future and have started to become unhappy with certain things in our relationship. I told her this a day ago, which was our 3 year anniversary. I’m ashamed of bringing this up to her on that day, but I didn’t want to wait any longer. I’ve just been feeling like I don’t know if I’ll be truly happy knowing that she will never be a Christian. She got very upset with me saying this. She doesn’t know why this affects our relationship when we both respected each other’s views. She calls Christianity evil for turning us against each other. While morally we agree on almost everything, my morals stem from my faith. She doesn’t understand why it has to be that way. I try to word things the best I can to her on why it’s important to me that my morals come from God, but it’s something that’s hard to talk about. I understand her frustration. I do love her, but I don’t know if I’ll be truly happy knowing that she’ll never be a Christian, and that if we had a child way in the future they would not be able to be a Christian unless they sought it out themselves. Things are also made even more stressful knowing that our homes are in Michigan, so one of us couldn’t just pack up and go. It would be a big process. I’m really torn. I know I have my problems, but I’m just seeking any guidances you guys could give me. Anything helps. Thank you.
-Brenden

 

[Aussie Pete]

Me (M 19) and my girlfriend (20) have been dating for 3 years. I know we’re pretty young, but we have an apartment together in Los Angeles. I’m a Lutheran and conservative. She’s a pagan and liberal. We’ve known throughout our relationship that we have different views on religion and politics, but it never stopped us from having a healthy relationship. Well for about a month now I have been starting to think about the future and have started to become unhappy with certain things in our relationship. I told her this a day ago, which was our 3 year anniversary. I’m ashamed of bringing this up to her on that day, but I didn’t want to wait any longer. I’ve just been feeling like I don’t know if I’ll be truly happy knowing that she will never be a Christian. She got very upset with me saying this. She doesn’t know why this affects our relationship when we both respected each other’s views. She calls Christianity evil for turning us against each other. While morally we agree on almost everything, my morals stem from my faith. She doesn’t understand why it has to be that way. I try to word things the best I can to her on why it’s important to me that my morals come from God, but it’s something that’s hard to talk about. I understand her frustration. I do love her, but I don’t know if I’ll be truly happy knowing that she’ll never be a Christian, and that if we had a child way in the future they would not be able to be a Christian unless they sought it out themselves. Things are also made even more stressful knowing that our homes are in Michigan, so one of us couldn’t just pack up and go. It would be a big process. I’m really torn. I know I have my problems, but I’m just seeking any guidances you guys could give me. Anything helps. Thank you.
-Brenden

It's far better to resolve issues before you get married

"Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?" 2 Corinthians 6:14

 

[Hazelelponi]

Do conservative Lutherans believe it befitting the Covanent of God to live with someone outside of marriage? I find that shocking honestly.

Call me old fashioned, but I married a few years back, a second marriage for both of us (he widowed and I divorced prior to becoming Christian), and we didn't so much as hold hands before our wedding day...

The issue with marriage as a whole is that the marriage is a covenant, it's intended to reflect our covanent with Christ, and Christ is to be reflected in our actions one to another.

You can't be in a covenant the way God intends with a non-believer... like scripture says "For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" 2 Corinthians 6:14

It's one thing to become saved after a marriage, quite another for the saved to enter into a holy covanent with a pagan.

Your bringing children into this mess eventually, and your differences can only grow and become more apparent as time goes on.

Also, your not entering into this from a standpoint of trustworthiness. How can trust be built in the relationship when you weren't trustworthy to what you claim to believe and the God and covanent you claim to believe in? How can your future wife trust a man who doesn't hold true to his faith and his God?

It's either your faith, or it's not. And if it's your faith and you prove prior to marriage your word is not your bond, then how can trust be built on that foundation?

Walk away now while you still can!

Don't grieve God's Spirit, He's leading you, telling you this is wrong.. don't ignore that still small voice...

I know it's not easy, I know it sounds harsh, but God is trying to speak to you through these fears and negative feelings about the error of this relationship...

Can you go to your church and receive council? This might be a wise idea.

@redleghunter

 

[redleghunter]

Me (M 19) and my girlfriend (20) have been dating for 3 years. I know we’re pretty young, but we have an apartment together in Los Angeles. I’m a Lutheran and conservative. She’s a pagan and liberal. We’ve known throughout our relationship that we have different views on religion and politics, but it never stopped us from having a healthy relationship. Well for about a month now I have been starting to think about the future and have started to become unhappy with certain things in our relationship. I told her this a day ago, which was our 3 year anniversary. I’m ashamed of bringing this up to her on that day, but I didn’t want to wait any longer. I’ve just been feeling like I don’t know if I’ll be truly happy knowing that she will never be a Christian. She got very upset with me saying this. She doesn’t know why this affects our relationship when we both respected each other’s views. She calls Christianity evil for turning us against each other. While morally we agree on almost everything, my morals stem from my faith. She doesn’t understand why it has to be that way. I try to word things the best I can to her on why it’s important to me that my morals come from God, but it’s something that’s hard to talk about. I understand her frustration. I do love her, but I don’t know if I’ll be truly happy knowing that she’ll never be a Christian, and that if we had a child way in the future they would not be able to be a Christian unless they sought it out themselves. Things are also made even more stressful knowing that our homes are in Michigan, so one of us couldn’t just pack up and go. It would be a big process. I’m really torn. I know I have my problems, but I’m just seeking any guidances you guys could give me. Anything helps. Thank you.
-Brenden

Define a “healthy relationship” when she is a pagan.

I believe seeing your pastor about this relationship is in order.

 

[Josheb]

Me (M 19) and my girlfriend (20) have been dating for 3 years. I know we’re pretty young, but we have an apartment together in Los Angeles. I’m a Lutheran and conservative. She’s a pagan and liberal. We’ve known throughout our relationship that we have different views on religion and politics, but it never stopped us from having a healthy relationship. Well for about a month now I have been starting to think about the future and have started to become unhappy with certain things in our relationship. I told her this a day ago, which was our 3 year anniversary. I’m ashamed of bringing this up to her on that day, but I didn’t want to wait any longer. I’ve just been feeling like I don’t know if I’ll be truly happy knowing that she will never be a Christian. She got very upset with me saying this. She doesn’t know why this affects our relationship when we both respected each other’s views. She calls Christianity evil for turning us against each other. While morally we agree on almost everything, my morals stem from my faith. She doesn’t understand why it has to be that way. I try to word things the best I can to her on why it’s important to me that my morals come from God, but it’s something that’s hard to talk about. I understand her frustration. I do love her, but I don’t know if I’ll be truly happy knowing that she’ll never be a Christian, and that if we had a child way in the future they would not be able to be a Christian unless they sought it out themselves. Things are also made even more stressful knowing that our homes are in Michigan, so one of us couldn’t just pack up and go. It would be a big process. I’m really torn. I know I have my problems, but I’m just seeking any guidances you guys could give me. Anything helps. Thank you.
-Brenden

I encourage you to take this to the Christian Advice board. This board is for introductions, not in-depth discussion.

I will tell you this: Marrying her will mean there is a very large part of your life you will not be able to share with her, You will not be able to read scripture with your wife. You will not have a wife who prays with you and for you. If she thinks Christianity is evil then she necessarily thinks there is something about you that is evil. If she thinks Christianity is evil then she won't be giving to the body of Christ; she won't be giving monetarily, nor through time and talent. If she is serving in the community with you then it won't be for the furtherance of the gospel. She's going to resist you educating your children in your faith, which in a larger sense means she's going to resist you raising your children in your worldview, and you, Brendan, will be raising your children watching this disparity between mom and dad.

Those are just some of the practical applications. Scripture tells us darkness and light do not fellowship. This relationship may have some of the appearances of a "healthy relationship," as you say, but you've I'll wager religion and politics aren't the only differences. Remember marriage is supposed to be about two people becoming one, and in Christian marriage it is about two people becoming one with God!

I hope this doesn't sound harsh but I'm a professional marriage counselor. What I've posted I have posted from both personal and professionally informed experience. Does all of the above mean you absolutely cannot have a successful marriage? Depends on what you mean by "success."

I have many questions based on this op. I'll post some of them if the op is posted in the advice board. If you've been dating for three years then you were 16 years old when you began dating this woman. For now I have only two questions, one of which is a fairly personal question so I will understand if you feel uncomfortable answering it here in the internet. Just say you'd prefer not to discuss it; no need to get angry, and I'll move on to the next inquiry.

Have you dated anyone else seriously?

Are the two of you sexually active?

 

[Tolworth John]

have an apartment together in Los Angeles. I’m a Lutheran and conservative. She’s a pagan and liberal. We’ve known throughout our relationship that we have different views on religion and politics, but it never stopped us from having a healthy relationship. Well

A healthy sexual relationship, but an hostile spiritual relationship.
The way out is to get a job somewhere else and move away.
Learn from this experience.
You need to sort it what you believe.
Is Christianity true? If it is follow it, including the moral teaching of honesty, no sex before marriage etc etc.

So move away with a new job and start being a Christian or start living as a Christian now and demonstrate to your girlfrien/lover that Christianity is worthy following.

 

[Brenden Smith]

Define a “healthy relationship” when she is a pagan.

I believe seeing your pastor about this relationship is in order.

I know it seems like it couldn’t happen, but ultimately she’s ok with me being a Christian. We follow similar morals of right and wrong. We have similar interests as well, and I do love her. She believes that religion is unique to each individual, Christianity might be what brings me peace and paganism brings her peace. I disagree with this but I respect her view. I do want to see a pastor about this for further guidance.

 

[Brenden Smith]

I encourage you to take this to the Christian Advice board. This board is for introductions, not in-depth discussion.

I will tell you this: Marrying her will mean there is a very large part of your life you will not be able to share with her, You will not be able to read scripture with your wife. You will not have a wife who prays with you and for you. If she thinks Christianity is evil then she necessarily thinks there is something about you that is evil. If she thinks Christianity is evil then she won't be giving to the body of Christ; she won't be giving monetarily, nor through time and talent. If she is serving in the community with you then it won't be for the furtherance of the gospel. She's going to resist you educating your children in your faith, which in a larger sense means she's going to resist you raising your children in your worldview, and you, Brendan, will be raising your children watching this disparity between mom and dad.

Those are just some of the practical applications. Scripture tells us darkness and light do not fellowship. This relationship may have some of the appearances of a "healthy relationship," as you say, but you've I'll wager religion and politics aren't the only differences. Remember marriage is supposed to be about two people becoming one, and in Christian marriage it is about two people becoming one with God!

I hope this doesn't sound harsh but I'm a professional marriage counselor. What I've posted I have posted from both personal and professionally informed experience. Does all of the above mean you absolutely cannot have a successful marriage? Depends on what you mean by "success."

I have many questions based on this op. I'll post some of them if the op is posted in the advice board. If you've been dating for three years then you were 16 years old when you began dating this woman. For now I have only two questions, one of which is a fairly personal question so I will understand if you feel uncomfortable answering it here in the internet. Just say you'd prefer not to discuss it; no need to get angry, and I'll move on to the next inquiry.

Have you dated anyone else seriously?

Are the two of you sexually active?

I encourage you to take this to the Christian Advice board. This board is for introductions, not in-depth discussion.

I will tell you this: Marrying her will mean there is a very large part of your life you will not be able to share with her, You will not be able to read scripture with your wife. You will not have a wife who prays with you and for you. If she thinks Christianity is evil then she necessarily thinks there is something about you that is evil. If she thinks Christianity is evil then she won't be giving to the body of Christ; she won't be giving monetarily, nor through time and talent. If she is serving in the community with you then it won't be for the furtherance of the gospel. She's going to resist you educating your children in your faith, which in a larger sense means she's going to resist you raising your children in your worldview, and you, Brendan, will be raising your children watching this disparity between mom and dad.

Those are just some of the practical applications. Scripture tells us darkness and light do not fellowship. This relationship may have some of the appearances of a "healthy relationship," as you say, but you've I'll wager religion and politics aren't the only differences. Remember marriage is supposed to be about two people becoming one, and in Christian marriage it is about two people becoming one with God!

I hope this doesn't sound harsh but I'm a professional marriage counselor. What I've posted I have posted from both personal and professionally informed experience. Does all of the above mean you absolutely cannot have a successful marriage? Depends on what you mean by "success."

I have many questions based on this op. I'll post some of them if the op is posted in the advice board. If you've been dating for three years then you were 16 years old when you began dating this woman. For now I have only two questions, one of which is a fairly personal question so I will understand if you feel uncomfortable answering it here in the internet. Just say you'd prefer not to discuss it; no need to get angry, and I'll move on to the next inquiry.

Have you dated anyone else seriously?

Are the two of you sexually active?

Thank you for the reply. I’m still getting used to this site. I do understand in Christian we should become one with God. That’s what makes this hard. The problem that we run into is that she thinks it shouldn’t matter if she’s a Christian or not as long as we share the same morals. She cites several periods throughout history when Christians have oppressed people and done horrible things. She thinks Christianity turns otherwise morally good people into people who come into conflict with others (Christians saying it’s not enough to just be morally good). I have had one relationship prior to this one but this is both of ours’ longest and most serious relationship. We are sexually active, however since the past couple of weeks I haven’t been initiated because of these thoughts going through my mind.

 

[redleghunter]

I know it seems like it couldn’t happen, but ultimately she’s ok with me being a Christian. We follow similar morals of right and wrong. We have similar interests as well, and I do love her. She believes that religion is unique to each individual, Christianity might be what brings me peace and paganism brings her peace. I disagree with this but I respect her view. I do want to see a pastor about this for further guidance.

Yes I believe your pastor at your church would be able to provide sage advice. Are you a member of a Lutheran church?

 

[Brenden Smith]

Do conservative Lutherans believe it befitting the Covanent of God to live with someone outside of marriage? I find that shocking honestly.

Call me old fashioned, but I married a few years back, a second marriage for both of us (he widowed and I divorced prior to becoming Christian), and we didn't so much as hold hands before our wedding day...

The issue with marriage as a whole is that the marriage is a covenant, it's intended to reflect our covanent with Christ, and Christ is to be reflected in our actions one to another.

You can't be in a covenant the way God intends with a non-believer... like scripture says "For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" 2 Corinthians 6:14

It's one thing to become saved after a marriage, quite another for the saved to enter into a holy covanent with a pagan.

Your bringing children into this mess eventually, and your differences can only grow and become more apparent as time goes on.

Also, your not entering into this from a standpoint of trustworthiness. How can trust be built in the relationship when you weren't trustworthy to what you claim to believe and the God and covanent you claim to believe in? How can your future wife trust a man who doesn't hold true to his faith and his God?

It's either your faith, or it's not. And if it's your faith and you prove prior to marriage your word is not your bond, then how can trust be built on that foundation?

Walk away now while you still can!

Don't grieve God's Spirit, He's leading you, telling you this is wrong.. don't ignore that still small voice...

I know it's not easy, I know it sounds harsh, but God is trying to speak to you through these fears and negative feelings about the error of this relationship...

Can you go to your church and receive council? This might be a wise idea.

@redleghunter

Thank you for the reply. I do go through the dilemma a lot, that a marriage with her would not be reflecting my covenant with Christ, and that if we had a child, the child would have to find Christ through their own choice. However i don’t believe it is wrong to live with your significant other before. I think that a lot of growth happens in that time. You get to know them very well so that you can be more confident that you will have a happy marriage and that it will be long lasting. We have very similar morals regarding right and wrong. I don’t believe calling unbelievers wicked puts a good taste in their mouth. I believe this only pushes them further away from Christ. I do really love her. Soon I will seek out a therapist and a pastor to also help me through this.

 

[Brenden Smith]

Yes I believe your pastor at your church would be able to provide sage advice. Are you a member of a Lutheran church?

Yes I am. I will look further into contacting one of my pastors.

 

[Josheb]

Thank you for the reply. I’m still getting used to this site. I do understand in Christian we should become one with God. That’s what makes this hard. The problem that we run into is that she thinks it shouldn’t matter if she’s a Christian or not as long as we share the same morals.

It was reported you do not share the same politics.

Does that mean you agree or disagree on the free expression of religion?
Does that mean you agree or disagree on role of limited government?
Does that mean you agree or disagree on abortion?
Does that mean you agree or disagree on personal property rights?
Does this mean you agree or disagree on the influence any given minority (like LGBT+ should have over the majority?​

These are each and all moral issues.

.

She cites several periods throughout history when Christians have oppressed people and done horrible things....

Yes, and I could cite scores of examples in history when liberals and secularists did worse (like the French Revolution). This is what's known as a "false-cause fallacy": Because some Christians did bad things previously all Christianity is evil. Would she agree with the statement, "Because Communists have done horrible things all socialism is evil?"

False-cause arguments are not a particularly liberal position. It is an irrational position. You are marrying someone who thinks this way and then thinks it's okay to think that way.

FYI: Christians may have it good here in the west but worldwide Christians are among the most persecuted of any group. A Pew study last year found Christians the most persecuted group and what has happened in parts of he middle east can correctly be called genocide.

She thinks Christianity turns otherwise morally good people into people who come into conflict with others (Christians saying it’s not enough to just be morally good).

And yet there were few atheists helping out in Louisiana after Katrina. The churches in my area are opening their doors as we speak to store food and clothing to be distributed in a socially distant manner (small groups) because the normal means of mass distribution are currently unviable. The churches in China and all around the globe are doing the same kinds of things to help those the government cannot or will not help.

I happen to have been a criminal in my past. Christ (not Christianity) turned me into a good person and there are scores of people here in this forum who will bear the same testimony. Forgive me for being blunt but your girlfriend's ideas are full of dross.

And I wonder what kind of influence you have had on her if you've been dating three years and she still holds these misguided thoughts and ways of thinking.

I have had one relationship prior to this one but this is both of ours’ longest and most serious relationship.

Did you think you loved the other person at that time?

We are sexually active, however since the past couple of weeks I haven’t been initiated because of these thoughts going through my mind.

Good. Stay abstinent and see how that effects the relationship. If the relationship is good then it will withstand and take some delight in the other aspects of the relationship. A relationship cannot be built on sex alone. Currently you don't share God, you don't share politics, you may not share morals, and you don't share sex.

See how that works out.

If it works then maybe you've got something to build upon. If not then now is the time to walk away. It'll hurt but not like divorce hurts.

Either way you will have learned something about love. You'll also have learned something about yourself.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8
"Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away."​

In his first epistle the apostle John stated "God is love."

""God is patient, God is kind and is not jealous; God does not brag and is not arrogant, He does not act unbecomingly; he does not seek His own, He is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; God bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. God never fails...."​

Is this the God you know? Your girlfriend does not know this God. This is the standard to which you (and I and everyone else here) have been called.

""Brenden is patient, Brenden is kind and is not jealous; Brenden does not brag and he s not arrogant, he does not act unbecomingly; he does not seek his own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; Brenden bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Brenden never fails..."​

How are you doing with that standard, Brenden. We all fail. The Christian life is the pursuit of ideals like this humbly knowing we are imperfect and will not achieve these goals this side of the grave but with every breath you take until your last you will be pledging to love the woman you marry by these and other standards.

If you marry this woman then you're going to be doing the above with a woman who thinks Christianity is evil and turns good people in to conflict people. You're going to be trying to live by the above standard with a woman who will not read the Bible with you, pray with you, share faith with you, serve and give with you nor with the same motive if and where she does serve. You're going to have to do this while she resists having your children brought up in Christ.

Christianity is the hardest thing known to humanity. We cannot do it apart from God's own Spirit helping and she doesn't believe such a thing exists. Marriage is the second hardest thing known to humanity. Half of them fail. Painfully. It is challenging when two people from different alien species (males and females ) share a lot in common spiritually, politically, etc. The difficulties are made worse when those similarities do not exist. Opposites do not attract in marriage.

Marriage takes a lifetime. A marriage isn't successful until one of you dies. With God's blessing that happens when you are old and gray .

You two need to get some things squared away. My counsel to you is to not get married until that happens.

 

[JesseBassett]

I will be praying for your situation, but welcome to CF anyways!

 

[Amittai]

Your both sharing an apartment together isn't dating!
She undoubtedly has noticed you wouldn't care if she became homeless (a home is no longer a designer accessory as in the boom years) but you would make a difference to yourself as well as her if you would start respecting no. 1 - i.e not at her expense.
Her perhaps relatively civilised version of "paganism" might not compare in some ways badly with your version of Luterhanism.
Unless she got thrown out by cruel parents or something!

 

[Brenden Smith]

It was reported you do not share the same politics.

Does that mean you agree or disagree on the free expression of religion?
Does that mean you agree or disagree on role of limited government?
Does that mean you agree or disagree on abortion?
Does that mean you agree or disagree on personal property rights?
Does this mean you agree or disagree on the influence any given minority (like LGBT+ should have over the majority?​

These are each and all moral issues.

.

Yes, and I could cite scores of examples in history when liberals and secularists did worse (like the French Revolution). This is what's known as a "false-cause fallacy": Because some Christians did bad things previously all Christianity is evil. Would she agree with the statement, "Because Communists have done horrible things all socialism is evil?"

False-cause arguments are not a particularly liberal position. It is an irrational position. You are marrying someone who thinks this way and then thinks it's okay to think that way.

And yet there were few atheists helping out in Louisiana after Katrina. The churches in my area are opening their doors as we speak to store food and clothing to be distributed in a socially distant manner (small groups) because the normal means of mass distribution are currently unviable. The churches in China and all around the globe are doing the same kinds of things to help those the government cannot or will not help.

I happen to have been a criminal in my past. Christ (not Christianity) turned me into a good person and there are scores of people here in this forum who will bear the same testimony. Forgive me for being blunt but your girlfriend's ideas are full of dross.

And I wonder what kind of influence you have had on her if you've been dating three years and she still holds these misguided thoughts and ways of thinking.

Did you think you loved the other person at that time?

Good. Stay abstinent and see how that effects the relationship. If the relationship is good then it will withstand and take some delight in the other aspects of the relationship. A relationship cannot be built on sex alone. Currently you don't share God, you don't share politics, you may not share morals, and you don't share sex.

See how that works out.

If it works then maybe you've got something to build upon. If not then now is the time to walk away. It'll hurt but not like divorce hurts.

Either way you will have learned something about love. You'll also have learned something about yourself.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8
"Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away."​

In his first epistle the apostle John stated "God is love."

""God is patient, God is kind and is not jealous; God does not brag and is not arrogant, He does not act unbecomingly; he does not seek His own, He is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; God bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. God never fails...."​

Is this the God you know? Your girlfriend does not know this God. This is the standard to which you (and I and everyone else here) have been called.

""Brenden is patient, Brenden is kind and is not jealous; Brenden does not brag and he s not arrogant, he does not act unbecomingly; he does not seek his own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; Brenden bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Brenden never fails..."​

How are you doing with that standard, Brenden. We all fail. The Christian life is the pursuit of ideals like this humbly knowing we are imperfect and will not achieve these goals this side of the grave but with every breath you take until your last you will be pledging to love the woman you marry by these and other standards.

If you marry this woman then you're going to be doing the above with a woman who thinks Christianity is evil and turns good people in to conflict people. You're going to be trying to live by the above standard with a woman who will not read the Bible with you, pray with you, share faith with you, serve and give with you nor with the same motive if and where she does serve. You're going to have to do this while she resists having your children brought up in Christ.

Christianity is the hardest thing known to humanity. We cannot do it apart from God's own Spirit helping and she doesn't believe such a thing exists. Marriage is the second hardest thing known to humanity. Half of them fail. Painfully. It is challenging when two people from different alien species (males and females ) share a lot in common spiritually, politically, etc. The difficulties are made worse when those similarities do not exist. Opposites do not attract in marriage.

Marriage takes a lifetime. A marriage isn't successful until one of you dies. With God's blessing that happens when you are old and gray .

You two need to get some things squared away. My counsel to you is to not get married until that happens.

Thank you, I appreciate the in depth response. I will talk to my local pastors, family, and girlfriend more for guidance.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Hi; good to see you.

Amos 3.3 has a useful principle.

 

[Josheb]

Thank you, I appreciate the in depth response. I will talk to my local pastors, family, and girlfriend more for guidance.

Let me see if I can't explore some of the potential positives lest I be considered overly-critical.

How have you loved your girlfriend this week?
What kinds of things make her feel especially loved?
How has she loved you?

What does conflict look like?

• How often do you argue? (frequency)
• How often do you the two of you resolve the actual conflict and not just reach a temporary peace?
  
• When the two of your argue do either of you yell?
• Use profanity?
• Call the other person names?
• Label the other person's behavior?
• Make attributions where one person explains to the other person what the other person is doing? Common examples would be "You only say that because (and then she explains you to you) ________," and "You're just trying to make me (and, again, she explains to you what you're trying to do) ________."

The two of you are contemplating marriage. How much agreement do you have on...

...how many children to have and how to raise them?
...how to save money and for what?
...where to live?
...how mutual leisure time will spent together?
...where you hope to be in three to five years?
...where you two hope to be in ten years? ...twenty?

I know that last one is challenging for 20 years olds but adult successfully married not only think about these things, the discuss them and come to a consensus.

There are five levels of intimacy:

• Cliches and superficiality: Facts about the world and events of life. Like news reporting.
• Facts about self and each other: we can speak of ourselves and the other person, but it's still fact- and circumstance-based, not truly self-disclosing.
  
• Ideas and opinions: Each partner is able to disclose what they believe and think and how events being validated and without being criticized but emotional content is minimal.
• Values and emotional inclusion: We can do all of the above including expressing what we feel about ourselves, each other, and the circumstances of out life past, present, and future.
• Empathy and honesty: We identify with each other's emotional states and are forthcoming with disclosure in inviting and connecting ways.

The five levels of intimacy are: Physical, emotional, intellectual, experiential and spiritual (in that order).

Some of this comes only with age, but otherwise, how do you think the two of you are doing?

 

[Deade]

Hello Brenden,
welcome to CF.

I hope you'll enjoy your stay here.

 

[Brenden Smith]

Let me see if I can't explore some of the potential positives lest I be considered overly-critical.

How have you loved your girlfriend this week?
What kinds of things make her feel especially loved?
How has she loved you?

What does conflict look like?

• How often do you argue? (frequency)
• How often do you the two of you resolve the actual conflict and not just reach a temporary peace?
  
• When the two of your argue do either of you yell?
• Use profanity?
• Call the other person names?
• Label the other person's behavior?
• Make attributions where one person explains to the other person what the other person is doing? Common examples would be "You only say that because (and then she explains you to you) ________," and "You're just trying to make me (and, again, she explains to you what you're trying to do) ________."

The two of you are contemplating marriage. How much agreement do you have on...

...how many children to have and how to raise them?
...how to save money and for what?
...where to live?
...how mutual leisure time will spent together?
...where you hope to be in three to five years?
...where you two hope to be in ten years? ...twenty?

I know that last one is challenging for 20 years olds but adult successfully married not only think about these things, the discuss them and come to a consensus.

There are five levels of intimacy:

• Cliches and superficiality: Facts about the world and events of life. Like news reporting.
• Facts about self and each other: we can speak of ourselves and the other person, but it's still fact- and circumstance-based, not truly self-disclosing.
  
• Ideas and opinions: Each partner is able to disclose what they believe and think and how events being validated and without being criticized but emotional content is minimal.
• Values and emotional inclusion: We can do all of the above including expressing what we feel about ourselves, each other, and the circumstances of out life past, present, and future.
• Empathy and honesty: We identify with each other's emotional states and are forthcoming with disclosure in inviting and connecting ways.

The five levels of intimacy are: Physical, emotional, intellectual, experiential and spiritual (in that order).

Some of this comes only with age, but otherwise, how do you think the two of you are doing?

Let me see if I can't explore some of the potential positives lest I be considered overly-critical.

How have you loved your girlfriend this week?
What kinds of things make her feel especially loved?
How has she loved you?

What does conflict look like?

• How often do you argue? (frequency)
• How often do you the two of you resolve the actual conflict and not just reach a temporary peace?
  
• When the two of your argue do either of you yell?
• Use profanity?
• Call the other person names?
• Label the other person's behavior?
• Make attributions where one person explains to the other person what the other person is doing? Common examples would be "You only say that because (and then she explains you to you) ________," and "You're just trying to make me (and, again, she explains to you what you're trying to do) ________."

The two of you are contemplating marriage. How much agreement do you have on...

...how many children to have and how to raise them?
...how to save money and for what?
...where to live?
...how mutual leisure time will spent together?
...where you hope to be in three to five years?
...where you two hope to be in ten years? ...twenty?

I know that last one is challenging for 20 years olds but adult successfully married not only think about these things, the discuss them and come to a consensus.

There are five levels of intimacy:

• Cliches and superficiality: Facts about the world and events of life. Like news reporting.
• Facts about self and each other: we can speak of ourselves and the other person, but it's still fact- and circumstance-based, not truly self-disclosing.
  
• Ideas and opinions: Each partner is able to disclose what they believe and think and how events being validated and without being criticized but emotional content is minimal.
• Values and emotional inclusion: We can do all of the above including expressing what we feel about ourselves, each other, and the circumstances of out life past, present, and future.
• Empathy and honesty: We identify with each other's emotional states and are forthcoming with disclosure in inviting and connecting ways.

The five levels of intimacy are: Physical, emotional, intellectual, experiential and spiritual (in that order).

Some of this comes only with age, but otherwise, how do you think the two of you are doing?

Rarely do we argue. We’ve only ever had two big arguments. One was this one and one was about two years back when our political differences were colliding. I’ve never screamed at her in an argument. My voice has definitely gotten louder in an argument but I try as much as I can to keep that to a minimum. Sometimes there is some attribution thrown around. My girlfriend has yelled sometimes but it is rare. She calls me names sometimes but that’s also rare. We resolved our first big argument well by coming to the conclusion that we can both talk about our ideological stances freely without the other saying that they aren’t allowed to think those things. While we have had few big arguments she can be quick to anger about various inconvenient things that pile up in her life.

We each have things we do to show that we love each other. I may watch a show with her that I’m not super interested in but I’ll watch anyways because I know that show makes her happy. She says she appreciates me a lot which makes me happy. We walk around outside together often (we can’t now, but we used to). She gets me thoughtful and unique gifts and I try to do the same.

We both definitely agree on marriage being something in the far future. We’re both college students studying for our bachelors degrees so that’s one of the biggest things on our minds right now. We both couldn’t really see ourselves having more than one child. We’re both going into entertainment fields (her acting, me music), so we know we will have to be very smart financially to be able to sustain ourselves. If both our careers pop off we will have little time for leisure, so we will try to spend as much of it as we can doing something we both enjoy or something that relieves our busy days.

It is hard to see where we will be in 20 years, but I understand it’s necessary to think about. I definitely have to sort things out in my mind and with her going that far in the future.

 

[NeverL0ved]

Me (M 19) and my girlfriend (20) have been dating for 3 years. I know we’re pretty young, but we have an apartment together in Los Angeles. I’m a Lutheran and conservative. She’s a pagan and liberal. We’ve known throughout our relationship that we have different views on religion and politics, but it never stopped us from having a healthy relationship. Well for about a month now I have been starting to think about the future and have started to become unhappy with certain things in our relationship. I told her this a day ago, which was our 3 year anniversary. I’m ashamed of bringing this up to her on that day, but I didn’t want to wait any longer. I’ve just been feeling like I don’t know if I’ll be truly happy knowing that she will never be a Christian. She got very upset with me saying this. She doesn’t know why this affects our relationship when we both respected each other’s views. She calls Christianity evil for turning us against each other. While morally we agree on almost everything, my morals stem from my faith. She doesn’t understand why it has to be that way. I try to word things the best I can to her on why it’s important to me that my morals come from God, but it’s something that’s hard to talk about. I understand her frustration. I do love her, but I don’t know if I’ll be truly happy knowing that she’ll never be a Christian, and that if we had a child way in the future they would not be able to be a Christian unless they sought it out themselves. Things are also made even more stressful knowing that our homes are in Michigan, so one of us couldn’t just pack up and go. It would be a big process. I’m really torn. I know I have my problems, but I’m just seeking any guidances you guys could give me. Anything helps. Thank you.
-Brenden

Drop all your beliefs, and you'll see the walls disappear.