Have you ever felt you just don’t fit?

[RBPerry]

You may love the church you attend, but feel something is missing. You may have studied different theological thinking, looked at other religions but then realized that Christianity is the only one that fits what you believe to be right.

However have you ever felt something was missing, or that the bible really hasn't told us the whole story? Have you ever looked outside the box (the bible) for other spiritual thinking?

I guess that’s where I am. No I don’t care to start a new religion, we already have too many, nor is my theological and spiritual knowledge developed enough to take on such an endeavor, only to be labeled a heretic. I was raised SDA and went to their schools, went to the Baptist, just didn't do it for me, then to Pentecostals, well I don’t speak in tongues, so I couldn't be a good Pentecostal. Then started a world religion study for a while, now that will really get one’s mind going, but usually in the wrong direction. Oh, then I wondered if psychology could help me with my thought process, what I learned was normal is just a setting on the dryer; well back to the basics. Also studied the Nag Hammabi scrolls, and Near death studies (they are fascinating).

So after all that, I can only come up with Christ is the Son of God, We are to love God with all our heart, and others as ourselves, and as Wesley once said, "all the rest is just commentary."

Has anyone else felt this way?

 

[RevelationTestament]

Yes, RBPerry. I am confident many have. I grew up basically Baptist. I have also had experience with SDA and my family had several SDA friends. I once attended an SDA "hospital" and felt a wonderful peace there. I also know some of the "historicist" interpretation of Revelation and Daniel adopted by the SDA church is correct, but this is by no means unique to the LDS church but was seen by such Protestants as Sir Isaac Newton and others far before the SDA church. I looked closer into the SDA church tho, and was forced to conclude that Ellen White plagiarized the majority of her writings and also made false prophecies.
When I was 12 I converted to the LDS church based on my testimony of the Bible, but later I decided I didn't understand the atonement so I later became inactive and over the next decade and a half or so attended various other churches. I also studied some Asian religions while in college. However, I did not find the spirit of God in other churches, and did not grow in them. Like the prodigal son, God eventually called me back to the truth.
However this does not mean that truth is not in other churches or religions. I have a respect for Buddhism but I don't believe Buddha had more inspiration about other worlds than Christ or in earthly reincarnation. However, as a framework in which to live a Christian life it makes some sense if it is tweeked. Here is how I would apply the framework:

The Noble Truths:

1. The Noble Truth of Dualism - The tree of the knowledge of good and evil has existed from the beginning. Buddhism acknowledges Dukkha - the existence of suffering - stress, unsatisfactoriness, suffering; In Buddhism the first truth is that life is suffering i.e., life includes pain, getting old, disease, and ultimately death. We also endure psychological suffering like loneliness, frustration, fear, embarrassment, disappointment and anger. It is realistic rather than pessimistic because pessimism is expecting things to be bad. lnstead, Buddhism explains how suffering can be avoided and how we can be truly happy. This is reflected in Jesus' statement that in the world we shall know persecution. However, the complete truth is a dualism - we cannot experience true joy without some suffering. For where there is joy, there is suffering. To eliminate suffering by escaping from the world is in essence a selfish goal. We can also avoid suffering by bringing joy to those around us. When we love much, we will experience pain and suffering. But we can minimize suffering by eliminating love of the things of the world for the true love of Christ. see Alma 42
2. The Noble Truth of the causal arising of Dukkha, which is grasping, clinging and wanting; the origin of suffering - The second truth is that suffering is caused by desire, craving and aversion. We will suffer if we expect other people to conform to our expectation, if we want others to like us, if we do not get something we want,etc. In other words, getting what you want does not guarantee happiness. Rather than constantly struggling to get what you want, try to modify your wanting to a preference but not an attachment. Wanting deprives us of contentment and happiness. The whole truth is tho that if we completely eliminate our desire, we eliminate our humanity and deaden our soul which desires to be happy, fulfilled, and content. In order to be happy we should desire the things of the spirit for all mankind while avoiding desire of worldly things for selfish reasons.
3.The Noble Truth of Eternal life and Paradise - Nirvana is the ending of Dukkha. Awakening, Enlightenment. "Mind like fire unbound"; the cessation of suffering. lf we give up useless craving and learn to live each day at a time (not dwelling in the past or the imagined future) then we can become happy and free. We then have more time and energy to help others. This is Nirvana. This will end life or reincarnation. But this arises out of the Hindu misconception that there is reincarnation in this world. However, the third truth is that suffering can be overcome and happiness can be attained; that true happiness and contentment are possible. The truth is not just an escape from suffering. The truth is overcoming suffering through love will bring true happiness. True enlightenment is to lead everyone else to enlightenment.
4. The Noble truth that God has a law for us if we are to follow Him. Buddha had not received the law.
5. The Noble Truth of the Path leading to Eternal life and Paradise. The path is not one of escape to non-suffering but one to happiness. We can follow Jesus on the path as He is the way. It can be related to an eightfold path

The Eightfold Path(Dharma or the right way) reflects our concentration, wisdom, and ethical conduct. As our YHWH, Jesus perfectly embodied the way to the holiest of all. Hebrews 9:8
1. Right Concentration - to meditate; to unclutter one's mind, and see things not as others do but as they really are.
Morning prayer - This is the time of day when we are fresh, and least fettered by daily concerns. God often spoke to His prophets in the morning.
Jeremiah 26:5 To hearken to the words of my servants the prophets, whom I sent unto you, both rising up early, and sending them, but ye have not hearkened;
Family prayer - a time to be one in thanksgiving and in concern for our fellows
We should avoid prayer or meditation while in the state of one of the 5 hindrances: 1. desire,craving 2. aversion, anger, hatred 3. sleepiness, sloth. 4. restlessness 5. doubt
Meditation - the 7 points of posture - 1.legs, 2.arms, 3.back, 4.eyes, 5.jaws, 6.tongue, 7.head and shoulders
Meditation can include many different things. We can learn to control our bodies - heart rate, breathing, and energy level. We can learn to connect with what some call our chi or the energy of our soul.
Rather than just exploring one's own being and thought however, one should be open to receive answers from God through one's soul and be open to whatever answers one receives which are consistent with the scriptures and the way. One can seek to know God in spirit, and to see things as He sees them.

2. Right Mindfulness - be aware of the moment and undistracted; contemplation of one's state of mind, feelings, and body. We are mindful of the tiniest details of our experience. To become care-free.
Matt 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
We are mindful of the way we talk, the way we perform our jobs, our posture, our attitude toward our friends and family, every detail.
ex. to see how a fear is stopping us from doing something; The 6 Roots of Mind or Spirit(mind is always under influence of one) are: 1 Generosity 2 Love 3 wisdom 4 greed 5 hatred 6 delusion
3. Right Effort - to arouse and sustain wholesome states of attitude, enthusiasm and cheerful determination and to abandon and prevent unwholesome states; Wrong effort is struggle.
Matt 11: 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
The 4 Best Abodes are: 1.lovingkindness 2.compassion 3.sympathetic joy 4.equanimity;
4. Right View/Understanding - to see and understand things as they really are and not as you wish them to be nor as others see them. This involves looking beyond the interpretations of other men.
ex. to read the scriptures and contemplate and pray about them in order to interpret them as God intends them.
5. Right Intenion - commitment to ethical behavior for the good of the whole; what does my heart tell me to do?
ex. to decide to apply the word in our daily life; a commitment to live the beattitudes. Matt 6-7. To be merciful and forgiving. If we are forgiving, we are not clinging to feelings of anger, hate, and revenge. To be poor in spirit. To be meek and lowly of heart. A commitment not to put ourselves at the center of our lives but to love our Lord and His creation.
6. Right Speech - Once our intentions are pure, we no longer have to be embarrassed about our speech. Since we aren't trying to manipulate people, we don't have to be hesitant about what we say, nor do we need to try bluff our way through a conversation with any sort of phoney confidence. We say what needs to be said, very simply in a genuine way;.to abstain from harsh words that offend or hurt others and false speech; not to speak deceitfully; to abstain from slanderous speech and not speak maliciously against others; abstain from idle chatter. God is a God of His Word. As our mind is so is our speech.
7. Right Action - to honor our word; "consider others as you would consider yourself." Christ: "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and "resist not evil" and "do good to those who hate you"; Buddha: "hatreds do not ever cease in this world by hating but by love...overcome anger by love." to live the 5 precepts of ethical life which are 1.to abstain from killing or harming beings with souls 2.to abstain from taking what is not given including stealing, fraud and dishonesty; 3.to abstain from sexual misconduct. 4.to practice right speech and 5. avoid intoxicants which cloud the mind. 6. To repent of our trespasses against others and to God. This means to make others we have wronged as whole as possible - as if we had not wronged them at all. To also pray for forgiveness through our Savior Jesus Christ. To pray for guidance of God in our actions that we may live the embodiment of His will.
7. To treat others as we would want to be treated.
The 6 stages of Metta(expand circle of lovingkindness): 1yourself 2.a benefactor 3.a good friend 4.a neutral person 5. all sentient beings without exception
8. Right Livelihood - pursue a vocation you enjoy while avoiding these: dealing in weapons, living beings(slave trade, prostitution, etc) or intoxicants and addictive chemicals and poisons such as alcohol and drugs; The truth is, that we should be glad of our job, whatever it is, and be happy to contribute to our fellow man.

The 8 Vicissitudes(what we will experience thoughout our lives despite our intentions and actions) - 1 pleasure and 2 pain; 3 gain and 4 loss; 5 praise and 6 blame; 7 fame and 8 disrepute. These embody the noble truth of the duality of our existence: We cannot know gain without knowing loss. As a man Jesus too was subject to and experienced all these vicissitudes.

I am still working on these so don't put them in stone. I would invite your input tho.

 

[RBPerry]

Right Concentration - to meditate; to unclutter one's mind, and see things not as others do but as they really are.

Meditation is a critical aspect if anyone want to grow spiritually, however we as humans all see thing a little differently, (Your truth may not be my truth). We can easily get sidetracked by are own logic and beliefs if we aren't careful. I do believe God is still
talking to his people today, most just aren't listening.

Right Mindfulness - be aware of the moment and undistracted; contemplation of one's state of mind, feelings, and body. We are mindful of the tiniest details of our experience.

Good point as long as we don't step into a self centered self absorbed state of mind.
As for right efforts, intentions, and speech I agree in the most part.

Right actions & livelihood, now we head into legalism and works based thinking. Not that I disagree with most of behaviors we should strive for. Lets take alcohol, no sin there, since Jesus turned the water into wine seems He didn't have a problem with it. At Pentecost when Peter was accused of being drunk, he replied that is was only 9AM, too early to be drunk. Now I know I'm picking on a bad one, but this is the kind of legalism that drives me nuts.
Lets take polygamy, now the LDS chickened out on that one, it was ok until the US band the practice in 1860 I believe, then Brigham Young decided it was a sin, that must have really screwed up a bunch of Poly families at the time. Most aren't aware the Luther even decided it was ok and married King Richard to his second wife. Personally I think it is a bad idea, but definitely not a sin.
Lets take, sex next, read Lev 18 and tell us what is sinful and what isn't, most pastors don't even want to go there. Now I believe in a monogamous one wife marriage, because that's what works in our society, not because of religious tradition.
The puritan movement made up a bunch of rules that really had little or nothing to do with holiness.

 

[Shempster]

To me, figuring out the meaning of everything is an exciting journey.
However, after a very radical experience in "self-deliverance" I finally feel like I am at peace with what I know at the moment and my relationship to the Lord. I believe that humans were meant to be like the herbivores of the fields. Peacefully mulling around going about their lives. No killing. No violence. No fear of evil.

So to answer your question: YES I have been there, but I got out and stepped into the real Kingdom of God. The almighty wants you to get beyond that. To get to a place where sin and temptation are mild distractions rather than clenching controllers.

 

[RBPerry]

To get to a place where sin and temptation are mild distractions rather than clenching controllers.

That is not difficult to achieve, it is understanding the difference between made made rules and what God expects from each of us. Depending on who's club you join the definitions of sin changes, now how crazy is that, we all read the same Bible and come up with a multitude of differing beliefs, and then add rules to those beliefs. That is a recipe for crazy making.

 

[RevelationTestament]

Meditation is a critical aspect if anyone want to grow spiritually, however we as humans all see thing a little differently, (Your truth may not be my truth). We can easily get sidetracked by are own logic and beliefs if we aren't careful. I do believe God is still talking to his people today, most just aren't listening.

Yes, we all see things a little differently. That is part of the human condition. When we read what someone is trying to teach us, the more detailed it is, the more likely we will each understand it differently. Hence, we all understand the scriptures a little differently, which is why it is important to ponder them and seek understanding from the Lord. He certainly knows what He intended.

Good point as long as we don't step into a self centered self absorbed state of mind.

Can't take credit for that - the Buddha speaking actually.

As for right efforts, intentions, and speech I agree in the most part.

Buddhists see it a little differently. Some don't want to create too much good Karma less they "get stuck." But by removing the false notion of earthly reincarnation, it becomes a good system

Right actions & livelihood, now we head into legalism and works based thinking. Not that I disagree with most of behaviors we should strive for. Lets take alcohol, no sin there, since Jesus turned the water into wine seems He didn't have a problem with it. At Pentecost when Peter was accused of being drunk, he replied that is was only 9AM, too early to be drunk. Now I know I'm picking on a bad one, but this is the kind of legalism that drives me nuts.

Actually, the Bible speaks negatively of getting or being drunk.

Lets take polygamy, now the LDS chickened out on that one, it was ok until the US band the practice in 1860 I believe, then Brigham Young decided it was a sin, that must have really screwed up a bunch of Poly families at the time.

Well, I don't think you have LDS history quite right. Brigham Young never said polygamy was a sin. No church president has ever said that either. Later a manifesto was issued discontinuing the practice - not because it was sinful - but because it was deemed necessary to prevent destruction of the church by the government. The day may come when the Lord allows it again. However, I don't personally share the apparent opinion of early church leaders that the temporal practice of polygamy is exalting or necessary for exaltation.

Most aren't aware the Luther even decided it was ok and married King Richard to his second wife. Personally I think it is a bad idea, but definitely not a sin.

Ok. I wasn't aware of that either... <chuckle>

Lets take, sex next, read Lev 18 and tell us what is sinful and what isn't, most pastors don't even want to go there. Now I believe in a monogamous one wife marriage, because that's what works in our society, not because of religious tradition.
The puritan movement made up a bunch of rules that really had little or nothing to do with holiness.

Outside of fornication, adultery, homosexuality and inappropriate behavior with animals, the Lord really hasn't given us any guidelines that I know of, other than to treat others with love. So whatever we do with our spouses should be out of love - not something harmful. This may vary somewhat from person to person. The Savior taught that the sinful acts start in the mind, so to keep them out of our minds - as to lust after another woman is to sin against her ie to start the sin of fornication or adultery.

Well, thanks for your input. Don't really see anything to change yet, but I will keep tweeking it LOL. I am just intending it to be a daily guide. Maybe one day Buddhists will find it useful in understanding God. I wish you well on your journey and pray that God will speak to the righteous desires of your heart. Just thought I'd let you know that yes, I have felt as Moses - as a stranger in a strange land, and if all truth be told, still do. I am just more content with the fact that the Lord is with me. The lamb walketh the winepress of God alone till the end.

 

[parsley]

Within the framework of Christianity, I enjoy challenging statements that don't make sense -- looking up original Hebrew and Greek, or historical framework -- and I am frequently surprised at how different the interpretations have been.

I tend to be introspective, so that seems to protect me from some of the social pulls in different directions. Grounded in myself and what I conclude, and adaptable to slight changes in beliefs.

after all that, I can only come up with Christ is the Son of God, We are to love God with all our heart, and others as ourselves, and as Wesley once said, "all the rest is just commentary."

Jesus explained things with the heart of the law in mind: justice, fair practices, mercy, thoughtfulness, sacrifice for larger goals.

I suspect that Moses was pleading with God for an answer on how to manage millions of strong-willed people, and God downloaded a set of laws that would keep people cohesive and fair-minded.

If they stuck to these principles as a community, then they would live long in the land. Arrest the thief. Stop incest. Use accurate measurements when doing business. Don't cough in someone's face. Don't make employees work on your day off, as though they are lesser human beings. Hold yourself to a Sabbath rest so you don't die of a heart attack.

Many of the standards in the Bible might seem restrictive but are common sense, if you're going to live in community.

But the intervention of God -- that is the big thing that so many people miss. There is a reality to this that blows the mind.

 

[Rajni]

Okay, the quote feature isn't working right, so for the record
this post is in response to the OP.

Yes, I feel as though I just don't fit in.

And I do look outside the box (bible) for other spiritual
thinking; the Bhagavad Gita has been a great inspiration
for me (it's become my new old testament... or maybe I
should call it an Older Testament... or something).

Anyway, even though I've settled back into the religion of
my upbringing (Catholicism), I still don't really fit.
I figure it wouldn't matter what religion I joined, give
me two weeks and I'll be a heretic in that religion.
I can't just blindly accept my marching orders and
fall in line with them.

I recently (and finally) watched the movie, Divergent,
and discovered that it serves as a superb metaphor for
how I feel with regards to stuffing myself into any one
particular religion (Faction!), and the potential heartburn
inherent in others within that Faction finding out I
don't fit.

I simply can't fit. I'm Divergent (likewise, I don't think
God fits into any one religion, either, so there's also
that ).


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