Have the locusts from Rev 9 already been loosed?

[TribulationSigns]

Based on Revelation 9:

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

If you would please go find a scorpion and let it sting you with its tail stinger, then you can tell us if it actually hurt.

I am thinking that the stings will be very painful, causing the body to go into a paralyzing coma, experiencing pain but unable to do anything about it, - but that is a guess. I really don't know.

I lean to thinking the scorpions being actual critters - but there are some other interpretations that John was actually describing attack helicopters. The sting in the tails maybe a chemical warfare spray. After about 5 months of damage, the aviation fuel runs out to account for the 5 months torment time. I copied and pasted this from a google search.

Typical today's modern theologians' imaginations run wild from everything from nuclear wars to attacking helicopters to implanting chips under the skins to be the mark, etc., etc. Never mind that NONE of this is actually ever seen in Scripture, they privately interpret Scripture to "mean" this even though it doesn't say this. This is what you are doing here. This is the DIFFERENCE between a private or personal interpretation and a Biblical interpretation. Between building a House upon solid Rock, and building a hound on a foundation of sand. An unsound hermeneutic, flawed system of interpretation necessarily negates understanding of God's word. In other words, if your system allows you to subjectively or arbitrarily assign a nuclear war to burnt-up trees, attack helicopters to locusts, and a particularly wicked man to the man of sin, then your system is fatally flawed. Because as righteous Joseph indeed illustrated, interpretations do belong to God, rather than man. And God speaks through circumspect consideration of His Word, not wild and unsubstantiated speculation like you are throwing around here.
You are right, you do NOT know because as you admitted it, it's your guess. You made up the options between literal critters or helicopters. Obviously, you did not compare Scripture with Scripture to find out exactly what God talks about. His interpretation is found within the book of His Word, not National Geographic or Popular Science.

What you need to do is to compare the scorpion in Revelation 9 with a scorpion in another book of the Bible to find God's interpretation. God is talking about men as locusts with the power of Satan (scorpion) that deceive many that cannot find death in Christ (salvation).

The little horn has the eyes of a man and a mouth. That man will have a tremendous amount of power.


Daniel 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Revelation 13:5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

That little horn will be a man. His number is 666, the number of a man.

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Daniel 7:8-9

• "I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
• I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire."

I do not believe that the thrones that were cast down were any more political thrones than the throne that was then established by the Ancient of Days sitting was! This was Christ and His throne Scripture prophesied about was not in a political nation of this earth. I believe that this prophecy of Daniel foretold of much more deadly rules than the political rule among nations, which deadly rule is the spiritual rule.

Verse 8 is talking about Satan, a spirit, being granted a short period of power, after being loosened by the bottomless pit. He is revealed through the false prophets and christs (eyes like the eyes of man) and speaks great things (false doctrines/lying signs and wonders). It is not hard to understand unless you have the spirit of Christ to discern and allow God's Word to interpret itself, instead of interpreting His Word with the world news.

 

[TribulationSigns]

That little horn will be a man. His number is 666, the number of a man.

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Dan 7:8
(8) I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

You misunderstood. The horn is power and being little means, well, little season. And "IN THIS HORN" were eyes like the eyes of man and a mouth speaking great things. God is talking about the power of Satan will have for a short season, being revealed through men with lyings signs and wonders. Satan will work through his army of false prophets and christs to deceive many for a little season (hence little horn). This is how the power is revealed, at least to the Elect, who can see.
2Th 2:3-4
(3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
(4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This is talking about the MANIFESTATION of the power of Satan in the lawlessness of man, revealed in the FALLING AWAY of the corporate church, as we are truly seeing this happening today! For example, Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyers, etc. I read NOTHING of the economic, political, and physical welfare or nations here. Apostasy is the name of Satan's game and it has everything to do with God's congregation all over the world. Satan works with the traitors, the perfidious, the unfaithful in the church! They are the antichrists that usurp the authority of Christ of the Bible to themselves and their leaders. In a phase, false christs seated in the Temple of God ruling "AS IF" they were God. This is the end-time scenario that the Dispensationalists miss in their zeal to follow in the footsteps of the fallen messenger of Israel in looking for an earthly kingdom and reign.
Oh, and do you realize that Scripture plainly says, "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of man," (Revelation 13:18). Please note through the transliteration in most Bibles may say "number of A man," that is NOT what the Scirpture actually says. The original reads the number of man, and no legitimate Bible scholar will deny that since there is no article "a" in the original manuscripts. It actually reads, "let hime that has understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of man." Of course, this agrees seamlessly with this imagery of the Beast being the kingdom of MANY unsaved man, not one man. Just as those who are servants of God receive the seal, mark or name of God scripturally writtenon them, those who are servants of Satan receive the mark as well. We don't read that we have the name of "a" god written upon us, and it shouldn't . It should be the same for it is the number of man, not of "a man." When we read we are the children of God, the text is the SAME greek construction. There shouldn't be children of a God:

Or again look to Revelation 12.
Rev 12:3
(3) And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

This Dragon is Satan, and note we see the same attributes as the Beast. And again, we see Satan is represented with 7 heads and 10 horns exactly as the beast was. This episode of the Dragon with 7 heads and 10 horns in Revelation chapter 12 starts taking place before Christ (the man child) was even born and continues after his death and resurrection. And so we can say unequivocally we understand that this beast with 7 heads and 10 horns represents the Kingdom of Satan as it exists throughout time and is not 7 individual physical kings on earth or one man. For example, it represents Satan and his carnal messengers who fight against Christ and His messengers, and he and his horns and heads have been around since before the first advent of Christ. Our understanding of this has to be based on comparing God's words with God's words and not on man's fancies of individual earthly kingdoms or one man. As Joseph rhetorically asked, "do not interpretations belong to God?" Indeed they do.

 

[Douggg]

Dan 7:8
(8) I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

You misunderstood. The horn is power and being little means, well, little season.

The problem with your "horn" interpretation is that there are ten other horns. Since the term little seems to be in relation to the size of the other ten horns - little is not an indication of a little season.

If you wanted to say that being a horn implies that the person has power, I don't disagree with that. And if you want to say that the little horn person gets his power from Satan, I don't disagree with that either.

But to take away from the little horn being a man, and a specific man - that I disagree with.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Horns can represent a voice, in Da:7 the 10 men are 10 voices that are against what the two witnesses are promoting.

Heads can be 'rules', in this case, there are 7 points of Law in the Re:21 set that all fallen angels hate and break.

Satan is the beast.
Re:17:3:
So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness:
and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast,
full of names of blasphemy,
having seven heads and ten horns.

 

[tranquil]

Because it takes place not in Chronological order, there's no connecting clause of "and after these things", The Earthquake and resurrection mark it near the 6th seal, unless you believe there are multiple resurrections and raptures.

You cannot fit days of Noah or days of Lot into a traditional "post trib" (really post wrath) view.

Pretribulationists do it by splitting it into 2 events, a pretribulation poof rapture, and "the second coming" which somehow ignores all scripture connecting the two happening at the same time, so they say the days of Noah and days of Lot passage are talking about the rapture not the second coming, because it has to be normal life up to that point. Funnily enough, pretribulationists stumble over another aspect of what Jesus was teaching in Luke 17, because they think the rapture has to happen before anything bad happens, they don't see how the wrath of God starts right after Noah and Lot are taken to safety, so they have a "post rapture gap" of time before anything happens.

The pictures of Noah and Lot paint a multilayered image.
of both the types of sin going on in the world at that time, Jesus emphasizing that people lived normal lives with every day happening right up until the flood/sodom destroyed by the wrath of God, the righteous were persecuted and mocked when they tried to warn, and both Noah and Lot were taken to safety the same day as the wrath of God suddenly hit the rest.

if the rapture and second coming are the same event, then they have to happen during a time where wicked people are living normal lives, building things and planning weddings (so not during the wrath of God but before), but the righteous are persecuted, and the same day the righteous are taken to safety... the world gets hammered by the wrath of God.

it fits a 6th seal/prewrath view. It could fit a pretrib view if you want to ignore that the second coming happens prior to the resurrection (the Lord comes down from heaven in 1 Thessalonians 4, before the resurrection or rapture), and that the second coming happens after the tribulation of those days... it does not fit a post wrath/post trib view.

1) I do not believe in a 'whisked away' rapture - or, as you put it, a 'poof' rapture. There is being 'gathered'. People will gather to the beast or they will gather to God. The people of God who gather and are gathered are the 'living waters' of Zech 14:8 (the 144,000 and the 'great multitude'). The 'locusts' are the 'unliving waters'. There are 2 wraths: at the start of the 'day of the Lord's wrath' which starts at the Trumpets and the 2nd wrath at the 7th Trumpet which contains the bowls of wrath.

Because there is no 'poof' rapture, only being gathered, it really isn't a problem to say that people are gathered 2x.

Because it takes place not in Chronological order, there's no connecting clause of "and after these things", The Earthquake and resurrection mark it near the 6th seal, unless you believe there are multiple resurrections and raptures.

The connecting clause is Rev 10:11's 'you must prophesy again'. The 1st is describing God judging the temple of God - meaning the Christian church that goes apostate - this is the 'cutting off of the grain & wine offering' in Joel 1:9.

Surely you have seen the discussions on the board: amillenial vs. premillenial; Rome vs. Jerusalem etc. It is both. Amillenial in the sense that there is an unbroken millenium for faithful Christians. Premillenial for Jews and apostate Christians. The 1st prophesying was describing God not allowing Christians to blaspheme His holy name anymore - God will punish the church. After that the little horn will usher in the Jewish millenium and make the covenant and then break it. The breaking of the covenant of Dan 9:27 occurs in the Jewish millenium when Israel is living in the 'center of the land'/ 'navel of the world' (Ezek 38:12) meaning during the millenium/ messianic era. That is the 2nd prophesying - that is for Jews in the messianic era, which is why Jerusalem is described as being tainted with Egypt & Sodom in Rev 11:8.

That is the 2nd wrath, the 'again' of Rev 10:11 which occurs at the 7th Trumpet and causes the 7 bowls of wrath.

So again, 1st the church is judged, cutting off the grain & wine offerings (communion), then the Jews live in the messianic era and break the covenant of Dan 9:27 (which is about animal sacrifices, 'zebach') at the 7th Trumpet, causing the 2nd wrath of God.

Also, where does it say that there is only 1 earthquake that occurs? Are you really saying that the great earthquake of Rev 6:12 (at the 6th Seal), the earthquake of Rev 8:5 (at the start of the Trumpets), Rev 11:13's 'great earthquake' (at the end of the 2nd woe/ 6th Trumpet), and Rev 16:18's 'great earthquake' (at the 7th Bowl of wrath) are all the same earthquake?

There are not multiple resurrections and there is no 'poof' rapture - not even once.

The pictures of Noah and Lot paint a multilayered image.
of both the types of sin going on in the world at that time, Jesus emphasizing that people lived normal lives with every day happening right up until the flood/sodom destroyed by the wrath of God, the righteous were persecuted and mocked when they tried to warn, and both Noah and Lot were taken to safety the same day as the wrath of God suddenly hit the rest.

if the rapture and second coming are the same event, then they have to happen during a time where wicked people are living normal lives, building things and planning weddings (so not during the wrath of God but before), but the righteous are persecuted, and the same day the righteous are taken to safety... the world gets hammered by the wrath of God.

The wicked are living normal lives before the Trumpets

they don't repent at Rev 9:20-21 after the killing of a third of mankind

the wicked go back to living normal lives before the Bowls of wrath. They think they are in the millenium.

Also, I think you said that the great tribulation would be over at the 6th Seal, but the great tribulation either still is occurring at the 6th Trumpet or only occurs at the 6th Trumpet. If you look at the 4th Seal, this says that death is given dominion over a fourth of the earth. Then at the 6th Trumpet, this part during Rev 9:13-21, explicitly says that it kills a third of mankind.

Let's say that the 4th Seal kills a fourth of mankind. Let's say that the population is 8 billion, that kills off 2 billion, leaving 6 billion. Then at the 6th Trumpet, this kills off a third, which would be another 2 billion (6/3 = 2). 2 billion vs. 2 billion.

In other words, no matter what amount you input here, the quarter kill-off amount of the 4th Seal will always equal the kill-off amount of the 6th Trumpet. Meaning that the 'great tribulation' is still occurring during the Trumpets.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

This is how the people who have been alive for the 1,000 years get to New Jerusalem after God has melted this earth when He sends many fallen angels to the lake:
Isa:51:6:
Lift up your eyes to the heavens,
and look upon the earth beneath:
for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke,
and the earth shall wax old like a garment,
and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner:
but my salvation shall be for ever,
and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
Heb:12:22-23:
But ye are come unto mount Sion,
and unto the city of the living God,
the heavenly Jerusalem,
and to an innumerable company of angels,
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,
which are written in heaven,
and to God the Judge of all,
and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

This is how righteous people are able to survive all 7 trumps:
De:4:29-31:
But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God,
thou shalt find him,
if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
When thou art in tribulation,
and all these things are come upon thee,
even in the latter days,
if thou turn to the LORD thy God,
and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
(For the LORD thy God is a merciful God
he will not forsake thee,
neither destroy thee,
nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

1) I do not believe in a 'whisked away' rapture - or, as you put it, a 'poof' rapture. There is being 'gathered'. People will gather to the beast or they will gather to God. The people of God who gather and are gathered are the 'living waters' of Zech 14:8 (the 144,000 and the 'great multitude'). The 'locusts' are the 'unliving waters'. There are 2 wraths: at the start of the 'day of the Lord's wrath' which starts at the Trumpets and the 2nd wrath at the 7th Trumpet which contains the bowls of wrath.

Because there is no 'poof' rapture, only being gathered, it really isn't a problem to say that people are gathered 2x.



The connecting clause is Rev 10:11's 'you must prophesy again'. The 1st is describing God judging the temple of God - meaning the Christian church that goes apostate - this is the 'cutting off of the grain & wine offering' in Joel 1:9.

Surely you have seen the discussions on the board: amillenial vs. premillenial; Rome vs. Jerusalem etc. It is both. Amillenial in the sense that there is an unbroken millenium for faithful Christians. Premillenial for Jews and apostate Christians. The 1st prophesying was describing God not allowing Christians to blaspheme His holy name anymore - God will punish the church. After that the little horn will usher in the Jewish millenium and make the covenant and then break it. The breaking of the covenant of Dan 9:27 occurs in the Jewish millenium when Israel is living in the 'center of the land'/ 'navel of the world' (Ezek 38:12) meaning during the millenium/ messianic era. That is the 2nd prophesying - that is for Jews in the messianic era, which is why Jerusalem is described as being tainted with Egypt & Sodom in Rev 11:8.

That is the 2nd wrath, the 'again' of Rev 10:11 which occurs at the 7th Trumpet and causes the 7 bowls of wrath.

So again, 1st the church is judged, cutting off the grain & wine offerings (communion), then the Jews live in the messianic era and break the covenant of Dan 9:27 (which is about animal sacrifices, 'zebach') at the 7th Trumpet, causing the 2nd wrath of God.

Also, where does it say that there is only 1 earthquake that occurs? Are you really saying that the great earthquake of Rev 6:12 (at the 6th Seal), the earthquake of Rev 8:5 (at the start of the Trumpets), Rev 11:13's 'great earthquake' (at the end of the 2nd woe/ 6th Trumpet), and Rev 16:18's 'great earthquake' (at the 7th Bowl of wrath) are all the same earthquake?

There are not multiple resurrections and there is no 'poof' rapture - not even once.



The wicked are living normal lives before the Trumpets

they don't repent at Rev 9:20-21 after the killing of a third of mankind

the wicked go back to living normal lives before the Bowls of wrath. They think they are in the millenium.

Also, I think you said that the great tribulation would be over at the 6th Seal, but the great tribulation either still is occurring at the 6th Trumpet or only occurs at the 6th Trumpet. If you look at the 4th Seal, this says that death is given dominion over a fourth of the earth. Then at the 6th Trumpet, this part during Rev 9:13-21, explicitly says that it kills a third of mankind.

Let's say that the 4th Seal kills a fourth of mankind. Let's say that the population is 8 billion, that kills off 2 billion, leaving 6 billion. Then at the 6th Trumpet, this kills off a third, which would be another 2 billion (6/3 = 2). 2 billion vs. 2 billion.

In other words, no matter what amount you input here, the quarter kill-off amount of the 4th Seal will always equal the kill-off amount of the 6th Trumpet. Meaning that the 'great tribulation' is still occurring during the Trumpets.

The 1/4 associated with the 4th seal is the part of the whole earth that Satan and the Beast control from the start of the 42 month period. 1/4 of the earth is all the dry land. The two witnesses prevent them from controlling Jerusalem, except for the 3 1/2 says they are dead.
The 7 seals are prophecies about the events the trumps detail. Da:2 is a prophecy, the later chapters explain the reality part of that vision and explanation.
'As in the days of Noah' means the fallen angels recreate the earth to look like it was in Ge:6.

 

[Derf]

The Book of Acts is not written in spiritual language...
Daniel's prophecies and Revelation prophecies were.

We must understand the CONTEXT of a passage before we can discern the meaning.
And we must ensure our doctrine harmonizes with ALL RELATED passages.
That is the ONLY measure of Biblical Truth until He Returns.





Why would I be offended by YOU not accepting harmony of Scripture?
Why would I be offended by YOU denying what the Bible teaches?


I have given you the events represented by the passages in view.
I have harmonized passages from several different Books to support that view.


You did not try to REFUTE anything I said... because you cannot.
WHY would you DENY what you cannot REFUTE?
Can't believe someone knows the Truth?


The Bible PROMISES the Truth about Daniel's Beasts (the current issue) would remain "closed-up" and "sealed"
to all the Saints (even Daniel did not understand - Dan 12:8) until the Last Saints "shall understand"
and a period NAMED the "Time-of-the-End".


Dan 12:8-10
And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the TIME-OF-THE-END.
Many [Last Saints] shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly:
and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise [Last Saints] SHALL UNDERSTAND.


Dan 12:4
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the TIME-OF-THE-END:
many [Last Saints] shall run to and fro, and knowledge [of Daniel's Beasts] SHALL BE INCREASED. [to the Last Saints]


The Truth about Daniel's Beasts (and the Ten "Kings/Horns/Virgins") of the Great Tribulation and Revelation Beast
is not "sealed" forever... the Last Saints "shall understand" the Truth and they will PREACH the Truth
as the Seventh Trumpet "begins to sound" [Rev 1o:7-11]. In fact, the Last Saints preaching
that Truth is itself, one of the last "signs" before He Returns.


Make no mistake:
When the Lord Returns, the Last Saints are NOT preaching the Gospel of the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom
and they are NOT preaching the Gospel of the (3rd) Christian Kingdom and they are NOT preaching
the Gospel of the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]


Instead, when the Lord Returns the Last Saints are preaching the historical fulfillment of Great Tribulation prophecies
that JESUS PROMISED they "shall see ALL these things" [Mat 24:33] and they are preaching
what GOD PROMISED they "shall understand" about Daniel's prophecies.
You need to consider that reality... does it "fit" your Gospel?


Jim

Ok, that's fine.

And I like what you said about the stars reprsenting people supposedly from within Christ's church falling from their place of speaking His truth to speaking lies. I think that ties in with the ubiquitous warnings about false prophets in the gospels and epistles.

Now, do you think that whatever the locusts represent, that they have already been loosed, or is it a future thing still?

 

[tranquil]

The 1/4 associated with the 4th seal is the part of the whole earth that Satan and the Beast control from the start of the 42 month period. 1/4 of the earth is all the dry land. The two witnesses prevent them from controlling Jerusalem, except for the 3 1/2 says they are dead.
The 7 seals are prophecies about the events the trumps detail. Da:2 is a prophecy, the later chapters explain the reality part of that vision and explanation.
'As in the days of Noah' means the fallen angels recreate the earth to look like it was in Ge:6.

I am aware of this interpretation, it is literally the only one that people seem to want to understand - and I strongly disagree with it. And you didn't respond to any point I made in that post.

The 2 witnesses die just before the 7th Trumpet. The 2 witnesses are during the 6th Trumpet which is the 2nd woe. It sounds like you aren't able to count, just like Doug. The 5th Trumpet occurs, then the 6th, then the 7th.

Even at a generous interpretation, the 42 months of the beast would still be 5 months off - the 5 months of the 5th Trumpet has to occur before the 1260 days of the 2 witnesses.

The days of Noah and Nephilim idea is pure garbage and not scriptural in the least. It is probably a stealth manner of promoting the 'serpent seed' heresy.

 

[DavidPT]

Even at a generous interpretation, the 42 months of the beast would still be 5 months off - the 5 months of the 5th Trumpet has to occur before the 1260 days of the 2 witnesses.

Why can't it occur during that time? After all, there is this.

Revelation 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.


And surely the locusts are involving plagues since that is one thing locusts are sometime noted for, plagues. Which could mean the 2Ws are connected with what the 5th trumpet is involving, the fact the locusts only torment those that have not the seal of God in their forehead. That doesn't sound like something satan nor the beast would be doing, commanding these locusts to not torment saints, but to instead torment the lost. Keeping in mind, it is saints, not the lost, the beast makes war with. IMO, when the 2Ws begin prophesying, it could be meaning that this 1260 days begin as far back as the first trumpet, since these trumpets all involve plagues, and that Revelation 11:6 indicates the 2Ws have power to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

I am aware of this interpretation, it is literally the only one that people seem to want to understand - and I strongly disagree with it. And you didn't respond to any point I made in that post.

The 2 witnesses die just before the 7th Trumpet. The 2 witnesses are during the 6th Trumpet which is the 2nd woe. It sounds like you aren't able to count, just like Doug. The 5th Trumpet occurs, then the 6th, then the 7th.

Even at a generous interpretation, the 42 months of the beast would still be 5 months off - the 5 months of the 5th Trumpet has to occur before the 1260 days of the 2 witnesses.

The days of Noah and Nephilim idea is pure garbage and not scriptural in the least. It is probably a stealth manner of promoting the 'serpent seed' heresy.

There is nothing wrong with my math skills.

Jesus returns with the resurrection of the two witnesses. The 7th trump sounds an hour later. They begin their ministry on the day trump #1 sounds, 1260 days later the Beast from the Pit kills them, 4 days later they are resurrected. The Beast that kills them is sent to the lake as part of the 7 vials, which is the 3rd woe, that is the last day of their 42 months that begins when the 5th trump sounds. Since 42 months and 1260 days are equal in length, that means the two witnesses are in Jerusalem before the 5th trump sounds. The math points to the time they are dead as being the length of time it takes for the 1st 4 trumps to sounds, 4 days, which is 1 trump per day.

Re:8:2-6:
And I saw the seven angels which stood before God;
and to them were given seven trumpets.
And another angel came and stood at the altar,
having a golden censer;
and there was given unto him much incense,
that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
And the smoke of the incense,
which came with the prayers of the saints,
ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
And the angel took the censer,
and filled it with fire of the altar,
and cast it into the earth:
and there were voices,
and thunderings,
and lightnings, and an earthquake.
And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Re:7:1-3:
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth,
holding the four winds of the earth,
that the wind should not blow on the earth,
nor on the sea,
nor on any tree.
And I saw another angel ascending from the east,
having the seal of the living God:
and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels,
to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Saying,
Hurt not the earth,
neither the sea,
nor the trees,
till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

The 144,000 are sealed, the believers in the Re:11 temple (Re:4 temple) and the two witnesses are all sealed before any trump sounds. This shows the Beast cannot harm any of them:
Re:9:3-4:
And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth:
and unto them was given power,
as the scorpions of the earth have power.
And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth,
neither any green thing,
neither any tree;
but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Re:8:12-13:
And the fourth angel sounded,
and the third part of the sun was smitten,
and the third part of the moon,
and the third part of the stars;
so as the third part of them was darkened,
and the day shone not for a third part of it,
and the night likewise.
And I beheld,
and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven,
saying with a loud voice,
Woe,
woe,
woe,
to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels,
which are yet to sound!

5th trump sounds, 42 months begin, 1st woe uses up 5 months, 2nd woe begins and is over the day the two witnesses are resurrected, that gives 37 months (1110 days) to the 2nd woe.

Re:11:13-15:
And the same hour was there a great earthquake,
and the tenth part of the city fell,
and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand:
and the remnant were affrighted,
and gave glory to the God of heaven.
The second woe is past;
and,
behold,
the third woe cometh quickly.
And the seventh angel sounded;
and there were great voices in heaven,
saying,
The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord,
and of his Christ;
and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Re:18:8:
Therefore shall her plagues come in one day,
death,
and mourning,
and famine;
and she shall be utterly burned with fire:
for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

Re:16:1-2:
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels,
Go your ways,
and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
And the first went,
and poured out his vial upon the earth;
and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast,
and upon them which worshipped his image.
.
.
Re:16:10-11:
And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast;
and his kingdom was full of darkness;
and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores,
and repented not of their deeds.
.
.
Re:16:13-21:
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon,
and out of the mouth of the beast,
and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
For they are the spirits of devils,
working miracles,
which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world,
to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Behold,
I come as a thief.
Blessed is he that watcheth,
and keepeth his garments,
lest he walk naked,
and they see his shame.
And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air;
and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven,
from the throne,
saying,
It is done.
And there were voices,
and thunders,
and lightnings;
and there was a great earthquake,
such as was not since men were upon the earth,
so mighty an earthquake,
and so great.
And the great city was divided into three parts,
and the cities of the nations fell:
and great Babylon came in remembrance before God,
to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
And every island fled away,
and the mountains were not found.
And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven,
every stone about the weight of a talent:
and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail;
for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

I never shy away from questions about some part of the Bible, perhaps you can list the question I did not reply to, so I can do just that.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Why can't it occur during that time? After all, there is this.

Revelation 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.


And surely the locusts are involving plagues since that is one thing locusts are sometime noted for, plagues. Which could mean the 2Ws are connected with what the 5th trumpet is involving, the fact the locusts only torment those that have not the seal of God in their forehead. That doesn't sound like something satan nor the beast would be doing, commanding these locusts to not torment saints, but to instead torment the lost. Keeping in mind, it is saints, not the lost, the beast makes war with. IMO, when the 2Ws begin prophesying, it could be meaning that this 1260 days begin as far back as the first trumpet, since these trumpets all involve plagues, and that Revelation 11:6 indicates the 2Ws have power to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

The remnant mentioned are the two witnesses alone. Zec:4 also references them if you are interested in adding more verses to the topic.

Re:12:13-17:
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth,
he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle,
that she might fly into the wilderness,
into her place, where she is nourished for a time,
and times,
and half a time,
from the face of the serpent.
And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman,
that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
And the earth helped the woman,
and the earth opened her mouth,
and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
And the dragon was wroth with the woman,
and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
which keep the commandments of God,
and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[tranquil]

There is nothing wrong with my math skills.

Jesus returns with the resurrection of the two witnesses. The 7th trump sounds an hour later. They begin their ministry on the day trump #1 sounds, 1260 days later the Beast from the Pit kills them, 4 days later they are resurrected. The Beast that kills them is sent to the lake as part of the 7 vials, which is the 3rd woe, that is the last day of their 42 months that begins when the 5th trump sounds. Since 42 months and 1260 days are equal in length, that means the two witnesses are in Jerusalem before the 5th trump sounds. The math points to the time they are dead as being the length of time it takes for the 1st 4 trumps to sounds, 4 days, which is 1 trump per day.

Re:8:2-6:
And I saw the seven angels which stood before God;
and to them were given seven trumpets.
And another angel came and stood at the altar,
having a golden censer;
and there was given unto him much incense,
that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
And the smoke of the incense,
which came with the prayers of the saints,
ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
And the angel took the censer,
and filled it with fire of the altar,
and cast it into the earth:
and there were voices,
and thunderings,
and lightnings, and an earthquake.
And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Re:7:1-3:
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth,
holding the four winds of the earth,
that the wind should not blow on the earth,
nor on the sea,
nor on any tree.
And I saw another angel ascending from the east,
having the seal of the living God:
and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels,
to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Saying,
Hurt not the earth,
neither the sea,
nor the trees,
till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

The 144,000 are sealed, the believers in the Re:11 temple (Re:4 temple) and the two witnesses are all sealed before any trump sounds. This shows the Beast cannot harm any of them:
Re:9:3-4:
And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth:
and unto them was given power,
as the scorpions of the earth have power.
And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth,
neither any green thing,
neither any tree;
but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Re:8:12-13:
And the fourth angel sounded,
and the third part of the sun was smitten,
and the third part of the moon,
and the third part of the stars;
so as the third part of them was darkened,
and the day shone not for a third part of it,
and the night likewise.
And I beheld,
and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven,
saying with a loud voice,
Woe,
woe,
woe,
to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels,
which are yet to sound!

5th trump sounds, 42 months begin, 1st woe uses up 5 months, 2nd woe begins and is over the day the two witnesses are resurrected, that gives 37 months (1110 days) to the 2nd woe.

Re:11:13-15:
And the same hour was there a great earthquake,
and the tenth part of the city fell,
and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand:
and the remnant were affrighted,
and gave glory to the God of heaven.
The second woe is past;
and,
behold,
the third woe cometh quickly.
And the seventh angel sounded;
and there were great voices in heaven,
saying,
The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord,
and of his Christ;
and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Re:18:8:
Therefore shall her plagues come in one day,
death,
and mourning,
and famine;
and she shall be utterly burned with fire:
for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

Re:16:1-2:
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels,
Go your ways,
and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
And the first went,
and poured out his vial upon the earth;
and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast,
and upon them which worshipped his image.
.
.
Re:16:10-11:
And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast;
and his kingdom was full of darkness;
and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores,
and repented not of their deeds.
.
.
Re:16:13-21:
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon,
and out of the mouth of the beast,
and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
For they are the spirits of devils,
working miracles,
which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world,
to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Behold,
I come as a thief.
Blessed is he that watcheth,
and keepeth his garments,
lest he walk naked,
and they see his shame.
And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air;
and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven,
from the throne,
saying,
It is done.
And there were voices,
and thunders,
and lightnings;
and there was a great earthquake,
such as was not since men were upon the earth,
so mighty an earthquake,
and so great.
And the great city was divided into three parts,
and the cities of the nations fell:
and great Babylon came in remembrance before God,
to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
And every island fled away,
and the mountains were not found.
And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven,
every stone about the weight of a talent:
and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail;
for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

I never shy away from questions about some part of the Bible, perhaps you can list the question I did not reply to, so I can do just that.

5th trump sounds, 42 months begin, 1st woe uses up 5 months, 2nd woe begins and is over the day the two witnesses are resurrected, that gives 37 months (1110 days) to the 2nd woe.

The 2nd woe is the 6th Trumpet.

Rev 8

13Then I looked, and I heard an eagle crying with a loud voice as it flew directly overhead, “Woe, woe, woe to those who dwell on the earth, at the blasts of the other trumpets that the three angels are about to blow!”​

​

You are putting the start of the 5th Trumpet at the same time as the start of the 6th Trumpet.

Rev 9

12The first woe has passed; behold, two woes are still to come.​

​

13Then the sixth angel blew his trumpet, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar before God, 14saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.”​

The text goes out of its way to say that the 1st woe occurs then the 2nd woe occurs. The 5th Trumpet, then the 6th Trumpet.

I know that you have a very clear narrative in your mind, but it just doesn't match up to Revelation.

Until you address this problem, I am not sure we can go further.

As I've stated before, what is occurring at these 2 points (the 1st & 2nd woe) is Zech 14:8

​

1 Behold, a day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided in your presence. 2For I will gather all the nations for battle against Jerusalem, and the city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women ravished. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.​

​

8 And on that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it toward the Eastern Sea and the other half toward the Western Sea, in summer and winter alike.​

That 'day' that is being referenced is Zech 14:16's Feast of Tabernacles. This is the holiday being referenced in Rev 7:14-17. The 'great tribulation' in Rev 7:14 is the 'plague going out' in Zech 14:12-19. God's 'shelter in Rev 7:15 is the tabernacle of Leviticus 23:39-43.

The 'living waters' are the 144,000 and 'great multitude' that are worshiping God and thus don't receive the plagues/ they 'come out of the great tribulation'. When Zech 14:8 says the living waters flow in the summer and winter it is referencing this Feast of Tabernacles ('summer') and 5 months later at the start of the 6th Trumpet (the 'winter'). There is no 'whisked away' rapture.

 

[tranquil]

Why can't it occur during that time? After all, there is this.

Revelation 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.


And surely the locusts are involving plagues since that is one thing locusts are sometime noted for, plagues. Which could mean the 2Ws are connected with what the 5th trumpet is involving, the fact the locusts only torment those that have not the seal of God in their forehead. That doesn't sound like something satan nor the beast would be doing, commanding these locusts to not torment saints, but to instead torment the lost. Keeping in mind, it is saints, not the lost, the beast makes war with. IMO, when the 2Ws begin prophesying, it could be meaning that this 1260 days begin as far back as the first trumpet, since these trumpets all involve plagues, and that Revelation 11:6 indicates the 2Ws have power to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

I addressed most this in my response #74 to Wayne.

The locusts are plagues upon the unfaithful sent by God. They are a punishment for disobedience from Deut 28.

I don't exactly disagree with your point, except to say that specifically the 144,000 & great multitude go out at the Feast of Tabernacles, 15 Tishri (the 'summer living waters' of Zech 14:8). The 2 witnesses 1260 days would be the 'winter living waters' (that would potentially start 5 months later at 15 Adar.

Again, Revelation goes out of its way to say that the 1st woe occurs, then the 2nd occurs.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

The 2nd woe is the 6th Trumpet.

Rev 8

13Then I looked, and I heard an eagle crying with a loud voice as it flew directly overhead, “Woe, woe, woe to those who dwell on the earth, at the blasts of the other trumpets that the three angels are about to blow!”​

​

You are putting the start of the 5th Trumpet at the same time as the start of the 6th Trumpet.

Rev 9

12The first woe has passed; behold, two woes are still to come.​

​

When the 5th trumps sounds, that is day1 of the beast's 42 months (that is also day5 of the two witnesses 1260 day ministry) , 5 months later the 1st woe is over, that leaves 37 months (1110 days when a month is 30 days long) The day the two witnesses are resurrected is the last day of that 42 month reign. The 7 vials are poured out in a few hours as soon as the 7th trump sounds. The Beast and False Prophet are in the fiery lake and Satan is in the Pit when they are finished. The Re:20:4 resurrection will have been completed by 6PM of that same day.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The problem with your "horn" interpretation is that there are ten other horns.

Now a problem at all.

The number 10 signifies "fullness" and the horns signify "power," and thus it is illustrating the fullness of time these kings of the earth have the power to rule in bringing the church to desolation/ruin. These are the unfaithful ones who will make her spiritually naked (symbolizing her being without the clothing of the righteousness of Christ). In other words, they no longer will be bringing the gospel of salvation as she is naked in trespass and sin. These kings are being ruled over by the "destroyer" Satan, which will devastate this congregation.

The number ten in Scirpture means fullness of whatever is in view, so the ten horns mean fullness of power with the beast. Selah.

Ten horns = fullness of power.

Since the term little seems to be in relation to the size of the other ten horns - little is not an indication of a little season.

Read Scripture please and consider the context:

Rev 17:12-18
(12) And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
(13) These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
(14) These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
(15) And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
(16) And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
(17) For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
(18) And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Dan 7:8
(8) I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Do you realize that the number three in Scripture signifies the God's purpose or will?! God is telling us that the little horn will pluck the three horns to signify that it is God's will and to agree and give his kingdom to the beast with the power for a little season (little horn)!! Selah!

This is why it is important for us to compare Scripture with Scripture.

If you wanted to say that being a horn implies that the person has power, I don't disagree with that.

I did not say "person!" The horn implies power. The little horn means just that, the power for a short time! Selah!

And if you want to say that the little horn person gets his power from Satan, I don't disagree with that either.

I did not say this either. I can see that you were trying to insert "person" so that the little horn must be a human. Sorry, you are wrong on this one too.

But to take away from the little horn being a man, and a specific man - that I disagree with.

Sorry, that is NOT God's interpretation. He NEVER applied the symbolism of horns to specific physical kings. That is your private interpretation. Please do some scripture study yourself first to find out what horn means to GOD, not you. Not me.

For example, in Psalms 8:21 or 2nd Samuel 22:3, saying "horn of my salvation" is the same as God declaring His Power of salvation because the horn is the symbol in the Bible of "Power". We can see why simply by looking at the natural world. The horns of a bull are his power, those objects that men are most afraid of. The horns of an animal are looked upon as their power even today. God used horns symbolically this way, which is why there were horns on the Altar of Israel. The altar is for the administration of the strength of sacrifice, which represented Christ. In understanding this we can readily see why God says "Horn of my Salvation," because all throughout the Bible we see it does illustrate they are used as a "figure" or symbol of the power or strength of whatever is in view.

Psalms 89:17
For thou art the glory of their strength: and in thy favour our horn shall be exalted."

People don't literally have a horn to be lifted up of course, but the horn is used here to convey the sense of believers being exalted in the glory of "His strength." We are lifted up in His strength (Psalms 46:1; 81:1) rather than our own. e.g.:

Lamentations 2:3

• "He hath cut off in his fierce anger all the horn of Israel: he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy, and he burned against Jacob like a flaming fire, which devoureth round about."

To cut off the horn of Israel is to break their "power" so that they will be defeated. Again, this illustrates that their horn is a symbol of their strength and power.

Deuteronomy 33:17

• "His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh."

Here again, the horn is used to symbolize the object of power and strength of the Bull that enables him to push against the people.

Lamentations 2:17

• "The LORD hath done that which he had devised; he hath fulfilled his word that he had commanded in the days of old: he hath thrown down, and hath not pitied: and he hath caused thine enemy to rejoice over thee, he hath set up the horn of thine adversaries."

In this passage, God uses the horn to signify that he has taken away the strength or power of Israel as judgment, and has exalted the horn (or Power) of their adversaries to overcome them. In other words, while (verse 3) cutting off the horn of Israel means they no longer had the power to stand against their enemies, setting up the horn of their adversaries (verse 17) means that the enemies now had the Power to conquer Israel. Clearly the horns there signify Power or strength. We see that when a horn is broken or cut off, it is symbolism that one's power has been broken or cut off. Whether used in conjunction with a crown, where it's man's ability to rule (as a king), or for something to be unable to stand or have strength before an enemy, that signified the cutting off of power. E.g.:

Daniel 8:7

• "And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand."

When the horn was broken, there was no more "power" in him to stand before the he-goat. This is what those broken "horns" symbolized!!! And the same with the power of evil when it was broken.

Daniel 8:8

• "Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven."

The great horn allowed him to push with power so that the Ram could not stand before him. For example, it 'symbolized' his great power. And likewise, when his horn was broken, it symbolizes his power being broken or taken away! Selah!

Likewise in Revelation chapter 17 where we see that the dragon had ten horns. Remember the number ten signifies fullness and the horns signify power. So this imagery is to illustrate the fullness of time these kings have "power" to rule along with the Beast.

Revelation 17:12

• "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive Power as kings one hour with the beast."

The horns signify the "power" they had to rule with the beast for this short period.

1st Kings 22:11

• "And Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah made him horns of iron: and he said, Thus saith the LORD, With these shalt thou push the Syrians, until thou have consumed them."

Here God uses the imagery of horns of iron to illustrate the great power of them by which they could push the Syrians and defeat them. The recurring theme of horns is that they symbolize the power of whatever is in view. Likewise, if you will read about the lamb of Revelation 5:6 has seven horns depicting its power. The number seven illustrates the completeness or totality of whatever is in view, and thus this represents complete power! Selah! This signifies the lamb which was slain, was the appointed sacrifice and had complete or total power. Even as Christ illustrated Himself.

Matthew 28:18

• "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."

1st Peter 3:22

• "Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him."

So the Lamb with 7 horns signifies Jesus Christ, the complete power of God in the atonement. This of course is also witnessed by God speaking of the power of the sacrifice in the imagery of the 4 or universal horns of the altar.

Leviticus 4:7

• "And the priest shall put some of the blood upon the horns of the altar of sweet incense before the LORD, which is in the tabernacle of the congregation; and shall pour all the blood of the bullock at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation."

Or in breaking the power of idolatry in breaking off the horns of the altar.

Amos 3:14

• "That in the day that I shall visit the transgressions of Israel upon him I will also visit the altars of Bethel: and the horns of the altar shall be cut off, and fall to the ground."

By this God is illustrating that he is taking away its power or strength.

The horns of the Dragon and the horns of the Lamb have related only in the sense that the Dragon is the substitute Christ or "Anti-christ" which mimics the true. The spirit of Satan the antithesis of the Spirit of Christ. He is truly the Pseudo christ. e.g.,

Revelation 13:11

• "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

Horns "like" a lamb. This is the substitute or Pseudo Christ who mimics the Lamb of God, but is truly the Antichrist. He comes looking like the "Power" of Christ, but his words are what gives him away!! . For they are not the words of God, they are the words of men, the words of nullification, compromise, and lawlessness. The word of God is what the man of God will come with, but the words of Antichrist is what the man of lawlessness (sin) would come with. Satan's greatest deception is that he comes "looking like" the power of God and as a minister of righteousness (2nd Corinthians 11:14-15). He comes saying Peace, Peace, he comes with healings, he comes saying God loves you, because he is the great deceiver. This is his M.O. or Modus Operandi. In this sense that horns represent power. It is power no matter whose it is (Satan's or Christ's).

As I show you, God has already defined the horn as power. Not man! Selah!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Horns can represent a voice, in Da:7 the 10 men are 10 voices that are against what the two witnesses are promoting.

Where in Scripture did God has interpreted the horns as the "voices" or even "men"? Show me the Scripture.

 

[StephenDisraeli]

I believe v6 is the key.

The torture of the locusts consists of the fact that they deliver DESPAIR (a spiritual ailment, the reverse of Faith, which is why the "sealed" church are immune from it). "Wanting to die and not being able to die" is depicting the ultimate level of DESPAIR, as already described by Job; "who long for death, but it comes not" (Job ch3 v21). That trumpet is about the world undergoing a collective "Job" experience. That is the sign we need to be looking for. It follows on, apparently, from the total devastation of the world environment seen in the previous chapter.

I would like to recommend this book; Silence in Heaven: A Survey of the Book of Revelation: Disraeli, Stephen: 9781597556736: Amazon.com: Books
Yes, it's my own.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Where in Scripture did God has interpreted the horns as the "voices" or even "men"? Show me the Scripture.

Da:7:8:
I considered the horns,
and,
behold,
there came up among them another little horn,
before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots:
and,
behold,
in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man,
and a mouth speaking great things.

 

[tranquil]

When the 5th trumps sounds, that is day1 of the beast's 42 months (that is also day5 of the two witnesses 1260 day ministry) , 5 months later the 1st woe is over, that leaves 37 months (1110 days when a month is 30 days long) The day the two witnesses are resurrected is the last day of that 42 month reign. The 7 vials are poured out in a few hours as soon as the 7th trump sounds. The Beast and False Prophet are in the fiery lake and Satan is in the Pit when they are finished. The Re:20:4 resurrection will have been completed by 6PM of that same day.

I literally just showed you that this isn't true, and then you just restate the same argument.