Anti-Christ European Have I found the framework for the Seven Year Covenant?(Agreement)

[iamlamad]

Let me reverse it then, you are close......

Here you went off the rails a wee bit because you confuse the book of Revelation. Its not in chronological order. Revelation 19 is a Vision all on its on just like Rev. 11 has the 2nd Woe (Rev.9) and the 3rd Woe (All Seven Vials which are in Rev. 16). So its duplicitous in many aspects.

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When I read nonsense like this, I really don't have to go any further. I know it is not me who lacks understanding of Revelation. Sorry, I am not confused about Revelation. I am well taught. Revelation IS in chronologically order, as much as is possible when there are 5 parallel paths going at the same time.

Axiom on Revelation:
ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology is immediatly suspect and WILL BE proven wrong.

Woes:
Rev. 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

So the three woes are trumpet's 5, 6 and 7. Is that difficult?

REv. 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded...
Rev 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
Rev. 9:13 13 And the sixth angel sounded...
Rev. 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev. 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded

How is it when John's chronology is perfect, you find fault with it?

Revelation 19 shows us a scene in heaven after the destruction of "Babylon" as shown in chapters 17 and 18. Everything is in perfect order.

Of course most people understand that the 7th trumpet in itself is not the woe. We might say, the 7th trumpet opens the door to the days of GT and the vials of God's wrath poured out.

 

[iamlamad]

I taught astronomy at one time and was a member of a local astronomy club.
I have actually gone out and watched a very bright moon turn to a dim red moon during the time span of a few hours.
This occurs because the earth gets in between the sun and the moon and blocks out almost all of the sun's light, which normally hits the moon during the full moon phase.

So the answer is.. Yes.

How many lunar eclipses have you observed by going outside and looking up at the moon with a telescope?

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Unbelievable! It went right over your head! Go back and read again in Matthew. Do you not understand that God is going to give earth TOTAL DARKNESS day after day after day. NO SUNLIGHT. NO MOONLIGHT. NO STAR LIGHT. That equals total darkness. It takes LIGHT to see something in total darkness, but in total darkness THERE IS NO LIGHT. The moon will not be visible. The sun will not be visible. No star will be visible.

The point is, the sign in Matthew 24 is NOT THE SAME SIGN.

 

[BABerean2]

Unbelievable! It went right over your head! Go back and read again in Matthew. Do you not understand that God is going to give earth TOTAL DARKNESS day after day after day. NO SUNLIGHT. NO MOONLIGHT. NO STAR LIGHT. That equals total darkness. It takes LIGHT to see something in total darkness, but in total darkness THERE IS NO LIGHT. The moon will not be visible. The sun will not be visible. No star will be visible.

The point is, the sign in Matthew 24 is NOT THE SAME SIGN.

See the link below for the Blood Moon that occurs tonight on the west coast of the U.S.

Maybe it will go "right over your head".

NASA Scientist's Tips to See the Super Blue Blood Moon Lunar Eclipse

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[iamlamad]

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Rev. ch. 13 starts at the Midway point, as does Rev. ch. 12. So both start at the First Seal or in Rev. ch. 6. Rev. chapter 16 says IT IS DONE and shows Jesus returning to the Mt. of Olives, defeats the Armies of Armageddon and destroys Babylon (the Worlds Governments).

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Sorry, but the exact midpoint is at the 7th trumpet. That trumpet will sound in heaven at the moment the man of sin enters the temple on earth and declares he is god. The daily sacrifices will cease on that day.

If you will notice, shortly after the 7th trumpet we see those in Judea fleeing - exactly what Jesus told them to do: Rev. 12:6. Therefore 12:6 will be only seconds after the "abomination of desolation" that Jesus spoke of.

Then we see the war in heaven. It probably will begin seconds after the 7th trumpet or at the same time as the fleeing begins. But John cannot write of two things that happen simultaneously: he must write of one, then the other.

God chose to show John (or tell John) about the fleeing, then about the war, and then about the Beast rising up out of the sea.

Or, we could look at it this way: In chapter 12, Jesus introduces John to the Dragon. He is mentioned 32 times in chapter 12, if memory serves me. In chapter 13, Jesus introduces John to the Beast that the dragon will possess and control.

In other words, the chronology is perfect.

Rev. ch. 13 starts at the Midway point, as does Rev. ch. 12. So both start at the First Seal or in Rev. ch. 6.
Wow! This is just lack of understanding gone to seed. Please, my friend, allow me to assist you. "Book" back in that day were scrolls. What John saw in the hand of the Father was a scroll sealed with seven seals. A scroll contains writing. If it is written on both sides, some of the outside could be read without opening a seal. Probably that was about WHO could open these seals.

JESUS became worthy to open these seals, and as soon as He ascended into heaven, He got the scroll from the Father's right hand and began opening the seals.

The seals are important, but not as important as what is INSIDE the rolled up scroll. What is inside CANNOT be seen (except by vision) until all 7 seals are opened so that the scroll itself can be unrolled to reveal what is written inside. All this has gone right over your head.

The point is, ALL 7 SEALS must be opened before any trumpet can sound! Did you not read?

Rev, 8:
1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

Do you see it? NO angel will be given any trumpets to sound UNTIL ALL SEVEN SEALS ARE OPENED.

What John is telling us is that the scroll is now being unrolled and the first thing that is written is that 7 angels get seven trumpets.

This could not be any more accurate in chronology. The truth is, from chapter 8 onward we see what is written INSIDE that scroll. Therefore when someone links something in chapter 11 or 12 or 13 back to a seal, I know they lack understanding of what John is showing us.

Rev. chapter 16 says IT IS DONE...

WHAT "is done?" The 70th week of Daniel is finished.

 

[iamlamad]

See the link below for the Blood Moon that occurs tonight on the west coast of the U.S.

Maybe it will go "right over your head".

NASA Scientist's Tips to See the Super Blue Blood Moon Lunar Eclipse

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All you know how to do is side step. I have seen blood red moons. But again you IGNORE the obvious: if the moon is not giving any light, it is invisible. When God tells us the moon is not giving her light, He is not speaking of an eclipse! He is talking about TOTAL DARKNESS. Try being deep in a coal mine at midnight on a cloudy night. Can you see your hand?


Revelation 16:10
And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

Isaiah 13:10
10 For the stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light;
11 the sun will be dark at its rising, and the moon will not shed its light.

So what happens if the sun is not giving light, nor the moon, nor the stars? What is this telling us? DARKNESS!

 

[Douggg]

Rev. 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. 2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. {The Anti-Christ goes forth to Conquer at the Midway Point (Dan. 9:27) and yet you have to Two-Witnesses dying at this point in time, even though there is 6 more Seals to be opened and 6 Trumpet have to be sounded before they die. Now there is only 21 Judgments in Revelation, and 13 Judgments pass before the Two-witnesses die, yet you would have us believe they die on the VERY FIRST DAY when the Anti-Christ comes forth to Conquer even though we know they die at the 6th Trumpet or 2nd Woe. The 3.5 year period of Gods Wrath is the Seals, Trumpets and Vials and thus there is a perfect symmetry to this time period. The FIRST SEAL is not where the Two-Witnesses die, your time-frame is warped/off-center brother.

If I were going to place when the two witnesses are killed in relation to the seals - I would put their deaths at the second seal the rider of the red horse.

The reason is the two witnesses battle with the beast in Revelation 11. The person in Revelation 11 is no longer the Antichrist but the beast. So the person as the white horse rider is over by the time the two witnesses are battling with the beast in Revelation 11.

Part of becoming the beast, the person has to have been killed and brought back to life. So going back to Ezekiel 28:1-10, God brings strangers to kill him, which would be persons outside of Israel. God has the person killed for sitting in the seat of God claiming to be God. A referral to the 2thessalonians2:4 act.

Which when the Antichrist claims to be God - that is going to set off a lot of reaction in the other nations - who will be aware of what's coming. So apparently some countries will go to war over it, some against the Antichrist's claim, other in support of it. Which translates to the rider on the red horse. War breaking out everywhere.

___________________________________________________________________________

For the 42 months of the beast reign in Revelation 13, the beast will rule unimpeded by the two witnesses who will have left the earth.

 

[iamlamad]

If I were going to place when the two witnesses are killed in relation to the seals - I would put their deaths at the second seal the rider of the red horse.

The reason is the two witnesses battle with the beast in Revelation 11. The person in Revelation 11 is no longer the Antichrist but the beast. So the person as the white horse rider is over by the time the two witnesses are battling with the beast in Revelation 11.

Part of becoming the beast, the person has to have been killed and brought back to life. So going back to Ezekiel 28:1-10, God brings strangers to kill him, which would be persons outside of Israel. God has the person killed for sitting in the seat of God claiming to be God. A referral to the 2thessalonians2:4 act.

Which when the Antichrist claims to be God - that is going to set off a lot of reaction in the other nations - who will be aware of what's coming. So apparently some countries will go to war over it, some against the Antichrist's claim, other in support of it. Which translates to the rider on the red horse. War breaking out everywhere.

___________________________________________________________________________

For the 42 months of the beast reign in Revelation 13, the beast will rule unimpeded by the two witnesses who will have left the earth.

I have a simple question:

The "book" as shown in Revelation is a scroll, because that is the "books" they had back then. This scroll is sealed with 7 seals.

So my question: how in the world are you going to have an event that is written INSIDE the scroll, take place before all 7 seals are opened so that the scroll can be opened?

What John has written is proof: NO TRUMPET will sound until all 7 seals are opened, and NO VIAL will be poured out until all 7 trumpets have sounded.

 

[BABerean2]

When God tells us the moon is not giving her light, He is not speaking of an eclipse! He is talking about TOTAL DARKNESS.

I went to South Carolina to observe the total solar eclipse a few months ago.

During totality the dim light of the sun's corona is still visible, even though it was dark and the streetlights came on.

When are you going to acknowledge the New Covenant of Christ, or are you going to ignore it and attempt to pretend that it does not exist?

Are you going to try and keep the New Covenant in "TOTAL DARKNESS"?
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[Douggg]

I have a simple question:

The "book" as shown in Revelation is a scroll, because that is the "books" they had back then. This scroll is sealed with 7 seals.

So my question: how in the world are you going to have an event that is written INSIDE the scroll, take place before all 7 seals are opened so that the scroll can be opened?

What John has written is proof: NO TRUMPET will sound until all 7 seals are opened, and NO VIAL will be poured out until all 7 trumpets have sounded.

I don't understand your question. John wrote the book of Revelation after he was shown everything.

All of the seals have been opened or else John could not have recorded what he was shown.

 

[BABerean2]

All of the seals have been opened or else John could not have recorded what he was shown.

You are correct.

Rev_6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

Rev_6:3 And l,when he had opened the second sea I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

Rev_6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

Rev_6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

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[David Kent]

How much of the gospel was known and understood by laymen in the days of Martin Luther?

Ever heard of "the dark ages?"

True Christians always knew the gospel. Martin Luther's teaching ended the dark ages during which bible reading was forbidden and a capital offence. During the dark ages the gospel was well known amongst true Christians. During the dark ages many priests could not read, but the children of the'heretics' such as the Waldensians could read. They would have to, they needed to because they had to know the bible.

The 'Heretics' knew their bible so they could defend themselves from the bishops, The gospel spread during the dark ages amongst the true believers. Over 50 million believers were killed by the RCC in the inquisition and other crusades against believers. .

 

[jgr]

True. It would be useful if they knew the history of apocalyptic interpretation and who started the Jesuit futurist teaching.

Although futurists general deny Jesuit input, Dispesantionalist Clarence Larkin in his book, Dispensational Truth said

"The "Futurist School" interprets the language of the Apocalypse "literally, " except such symbols as are named as such, and holds that the whole of the Book, from the end of the third chapter, is yet "future" and unfulfilled, and that the greater part of the Book, from the beginning of chapter six to the end of chapter nineteen, describes what shall come to pass during the last week of "Daniel's Seventy Weeks." This view, while it dates in modern times only from the close of the Sixteenth Century, is really the most ancient of the three. It was held in many of its prominent features by the primitive Fathers of the Church, and is one of the early interpretations of scripture truth that sunk into oblivion with the growth of Papacy, and that has been restored to the Church in these last times. In its present form it may be said to have originated at the end of the Sixteenth Century, with the Jesuit Ribera, who, actuated by the same motive as the Jesuit Alcazar, sought to rid the Papacy of the stigma of being called the "Antichrist, " and so referred the prophecies of the Apocalypse to the distant future. This view was accepted by the Roman Catholic Church and was for a long time confined to it, but, strange to say, it has wonderfully revived since the beginning of the Nineteenth Century, and that among Protestants. It is the most largely accepted of the three views., It has been charged with ignoring the Papal and Mohammedan systems, but this is far from the truth, for it looks upon them as foreshadowed in the scriptures, and sees in them the "Type" of those great "Anti-Types" yet future, the "-Beast" and the "False Prophet." The "Futurist" interpretation of scripture is the one employed in this book."

The great error of Larkin in his outline of history, is that the early church taught no such thing. They taught that the let and hindrance in 2 Thess 2 was the Emperor and the Empire and also that the Temple in Revelation referred to the church and the 144,000 were christian martyrs. All directly opposed to futurism, but in line with historicism.

Thanks; very revealing admission, of which I was unaware, by Larkin. No dispen today would touch that one with a ten-foot (or any-foot) pole.

 

[Revealing Times]

Why don't you try looking up the definition of "woe" on the internet and see if it says "timeframe".

You look it up, every event in our life has a time-frame. We live in a cause and effect universe.

 

[Douggg]

You look it up, every event in our life has a time-frame. We live in a cause and effect universe.

Having a timeframe and being a timeframe are two different things. A woe is not a timeframe. The three woes happen within timeframes; and at certain points on the timeline.

The three woes are announced by the last three trumpets.

Differently, the two witnesses' testimony time, being killed, and ascending are not announced by any of the three trumpets. And is not itself one of the three woes.

The angel telling John about the two witnesses is tied to John having ate the little book.

Their 1260 days on the timeline is tied to the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 which takes place before the war in heaven. After the war in heaven is the time, times, half times.

Which would put the 1260 days in the first half of the 7 years.
And the time, times, half times in the second half of the 7 years.

________________________________________________________

The 42 months of the Gentiles treading Jerusalem for 42 months is tied to the 42 months that the beast rules in Revelation 13:5 without being impeded by the two witnesses who will be gone from the earth.

__________________________________________________________

The time, times, half times in Daniel 12:7 is tied to Revelation 12:14 when Satan will be cast down, having great wrath, who persecutes the remanent of the woman for the time, times, half times.

Which also the time, times, half times of Daniel 7:25 is tied to that same period of Daniel 12:7 and Revelation 12:14.

 

[Douggg]

This is how you have been confused. Go together? In a way, they do, but they are about different events that cover the same period of time.

While the city is being trampled, the Beast will have his authority.
While the two witnesses are testifying, those in Judea will flee.

The two witnesses' 1260 days on the timeline is tied to the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 which takes place before the war in heaven. After the war in heaven is the time, times, half times.

Which would put the 1260 days in the first half of the 7 years.
And the time, times, half times in the second half of the 7 years.

________________________________________________________

The 42 months of the Gentiles treading Jerusalem for 42 months is tied to the 42 months that the beast rules in Revelation 13:5 without being impeded by the two witnesses who will be gone from the earth.

__________________________________________________________

The time, times, half times in Daniel 12:7 is tied to Revelation 12:14 when Satan will be cast down, having great wrath, who persecutes the remanent of the woman for the time, times, half times.

Which also the time, times, half times of Daniel 7:25 is tied to that same period of Daniel 12:7 and Revelation 12:14.

 

[Revealing Times]

When I read nonsense like this, I really don't have to go any further. I know it is not me who lacks understanding of Revelation. Sorry, I am not confused about Revelation. I am well taught. Revelation IS in chronologically order, as much as is possible when there are 5 parallel paths going at the same time.

You not understanding Revelation is pretty telling.

Woes:
Rev. 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

So the three woes are trumpet's 5, 6 and 7. Is that difficult?

REv. 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded...
Rev 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
Rev. 9:13 13 And the sixth angel sounded...
Rev. 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev. 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded

Now the whole point you missed it seems.

Rev. 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

So the THREE TRUMPETS yet to sound ARE THE THREE WOES that is left !!

Rev. 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.


Rev. 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded (2nd Woe), and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts. {This ENDS the 2nd Woe right here, Woes are JUDGMENTS against mankind, the Two-Witnesses die at this time, this JUDGMENT does not kill the two-witnesses however, a Demon named Apollyon does.}

Rev. 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

{So this chapter PROVES MY POINT, this is about the 42 Month period the Gentiles will tread under foot Jerusalem and about the Two-witnesses prophesying for 1260 days !! Now tell me how this is ONLY ABOUT the 2nd and 3rd Woe !! Its not, this is a vision that FILLS IN TH GAPS about the Two-witnesses, how long they prophecy, and when they die. The 2nd Woe is OVER in Rev. chapter 9, this chapter telling us when the Two-witnesses die will NATURALLY MENTION Woe #2 and Woe #3. But no effects on mankind via Woe # 2 or Woe #3 are spoken of here. Like I stated this is all about the Two-witnesses deaths. It gives us an OVERVIEW of the last two Woes so as to let us know when they die.}

Rev. 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

Chapter 15 is kind of like chapter 11, its not really the 3rd Woe either, its just announcing they are about to come forth.

Rev. 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth (2nd Woe here, ALL SEVEN VIALS of God's Wrath).

2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth;..............

Rev. 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded (Trumps Sound)

Rev. 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

I am here to tell you, the book of Revelation does not need to have Rev. ch. 11 to tell us about the 2nd Woe and 3rd Woe, that's in Rev. chapter 9 and Rev. chapter 16. Rev. chapter 11 is ALL ABOUT the Two-witnesses !!

Its not the SEVENTH VIAL, its the SEVENTH TRUMP you are pointing towards, thus the 3rd Woe is the Seventh Trumpet which is ALL SEVEN VIALS rolled into one.

How is it when John's chronology is perfect, you find fault with it?

Revelation 19 shows us a scene in heaven after the destruction of "Babylon" as shown in chapters 17 and 18. Everything is in perfect order.

Of course most people understand that the 7th trumpet in itself is not the woe. We might say, the 7th trumpet opens the door to the days of GT and the vials of God's wrath poured out.

I can't help you understand that Revelation is not in Chronological order.

 

[Marilyn C]

YouTube has a lot of make-believe junk on it. The old city of Babylon still lays barren and a waste, just like God said it would.

Babylon looks very much getting rebuilt!!!

 

[David Kent]

Thanks; very revealing admission, of which I was unaware, by Larkin. No dispen today would touch that one with a ten-foot (or any-foot) pole.

I am not sure whether you were referring to Larkin himself or to his comments.
Just in case it was the former, you may like to look at this forum
Clarence Larkin - The Spirit World

Or this

Clarence Larkin - Revelation

If you find anyone disagreeing with Alan there it is probably me.

 

[jgr]

I am not sure whether you were referring to Larkin himself or to his comments.
Just in case it was the former, you may like to look at this forum
Clarence Larkin - The Spirit World

Or this

Clarence Larkin - Revelation

If you find anyone disagreeing with Alan there it is probably me.

I was referring to Larkin's admission of Ribera's influence.

 

[David Kent]

Yes I got banned for a while on another forum for saying that futurists taught Jesuit doctrines. Even though at the time there was a futurist who continually stated that preterists were teaching Jesuit teachings.