Has God called some of us to be poor, sick, no arms or legs and persecuted???

Sunshine Locket

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:confused: How does this thread qualify for General Politics forum?

To answer the OP question. If we accept the scriptures that tell us God predestined everyone's life before they were born, and accept that he is omnipotent and omniscient and omnipresent, then yes. God created, not called, some of us to be poor, sick, no appendages, and persecuted. All as part of his divine plan and for his glory.
 
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andy b

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disability and being poor are only a problem in this world because we make to so.If mankind was decent we would share wealth and food and treat are fellow man with dignity and compassion.The reality is that i and the whole of mankind fails miserably.
 
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DennisTate

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:confused: How does this thread qualify for General Politics forum?

To answer the OP question. If we accept the scriptures that tell us God predestined everyone's life before they were born, and accept that he is omnipotent and omniscient and omnipresent, then yes. God created, not called, some of us to be poor, sick, no appendages, and persecuted. All as part of his divine plan and for his glory.


We could do a lot more to help the poor if we knew more about the economic history of our nations.


Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy

In 1972, the United States Treasury Department was asked to compute the amount of interest that would have been paid if that 400 million dollars would have been borrowed at interest instead of being issued by Abraham Lincoln. They did some computations, and a few weeks later, the United States Treasury Department said the United States Government saved 4 billion dollars in interest because Lincoln had created his own money. So you can about imagine how much the Government has paid and how much we owe solely on the basis of interest.(Melvin Sickler)
 
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FireDragon76

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disability and being poor are only a problem in this world because we make to so.If mankind was decent we would share wealth and food and treat are fellow man with dignity and compassion.The reality is that i and the whole of mankind fails miserably.

That's the real issue.
 
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DennisTate

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disability and being poor are only a problem in this world because we make to so.If mankind was decent we would share wealth and food and treat are fellow man with dignity and compassion.The reality is that i and the whole of mankind fails miserably.

So do I………. Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.


http://www.christianforums.com/t7701455/


North American churches should each have their own currency!
I am of the belief that each large church in North America should discuss the printing up of their own church currency unit such as has been done by a group of socially active citizens in Calgary, Canada with their CalgaryDollars.ca

Here is a good article on how important local currencies were during the Great Depression:


Whatcom Watch Online - Story Display
http://www.whatcomwatch.org/php/WW_open.php?id=717

City in Austria Printed Local Currency

Worgl, like many other European towns and cities, was hit hard by the Great Depression. There was mass unemployment; four of the five local factories had closed, and the people were starving in the streets. Nobody had any money to buy anything. One of the features of an economic depression is that there is not enough money in circulation to ensure that people can meet their basic needs, and in the 1930s, the shortage of currency in many countries of the world became catastrophic.

The mayor of Worgl, together with local businessmen, decided to try to break this economic impasse by creating their own local currency. They printed and issued 60,000 Austrian shillings worth of local currency. These shillings could only be spent in Worgl, so they remained in the local community and were exchanged over and over again.

The positive impact was immediate and surprising to everyone. In only six weeks, unemployment disappeared, all the factories had reopened and everyone had food. For the inhabitants of Worgl, the economic depression was gone. This dramatic transformation became known as the “miracle of Worgl.” Surrounding towns, inspired by the success of Worgl, immediately started printing their own local currencies.

Sadly, the miracle did not last long. When the Austrian Central Bank heard about Worgl’s local currency, they initiated legal proceedings against the mayor and local businessmen. According to Austrian banking law, it was illegal for anyone except the Austrian Central Bank to issue money. The bank won the court case, and the mayor was ordered to shut down the local currency, which he did, under threat of imprisonment. The town then returned to the devastating economic depression of the 1930s, with all the human pain and suffering associated with this catastrophe. Factories closed, and once again, the people starved.

Alternative Currency in the U.S.

Irving Fisher, an American professor of economics at Yale University, visited Worgl before the local currency was suppressed and witnessed the ‘miracle’ firsthand. When he returned to the United States, Fisher spread the word by traveling and lecturing across the country, advocating the use of the Worgl ‘scrip’ everywhere. Inspired by his vision, hundreds of communities began issuing their own currency, and by 1934 there were over 1,000 local communities using ‘scrip’ throughout the U.S.

Every one of these communities experienced a tremendous rejuvenation of their local economies. They thrived while others suffered. Fisher then met with President Franklin D. Roosevelt, proposing the implementation of government-sanctioned local ‘scrip’ in every community in America. When FDR consulted with his top financial advisors and bankers, however, he was advised to shut all the ‘scrip’ systems down, which he did. Instead, he borrowed large amounts of money from bankers, at interest, and used it to pay for the Reconstruction Finance Corporation and the other work-creation projects, which collectively came to be known as the ‘New Deal.’ So ended the last widespread use of a local currency within the U.S.

Surely everybody who reads this article would agree that we have many advantages over the people who lived in Worgl, Austria during the Great Depression?!

If they can do it....why can't we?

Here in Canada the only problem that we have to watch out for is that we must pay the same rate of taxation if we earn Calgary Dollars as if we had earned Canadian dollars....so we have to keep our level of bartering at the point where our tax bill doesn't get to high.....but if we volunteered our time and our church earned a local currency from another church....it could be amazing where this could lead!
 
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DennisTate

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seems like there's a misunderstanding of God's purpose for his creation, a misplacement of values, and a misunderstanding of suffering. the two latter things steming from the former.


My belief is that God is sharing consciousness…….. the ability to think and feel and learn with more and more and more life forms………


Dannion Brinkley was shown during one of his two near death experiences that only the most courageous and philosophically advanced angels would volunteer to take the body of a child destined to be born physically or mentally handicapped???!!!
 
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Hetta

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disability and being poor are only a problem in this world because we make to so.If mankind was decent we would share wealth and food and treat are fellow man with dignity and compassion.The reality is that i and the whole of mankind fails miserably.

This. Yes.

God doesn't make people poor - it's this society that creates an underclass and keeps that underclass right where it is. And it is people who persecute.

Those who don't have arms and legs are unfortunate. Nothing more or less.
 
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DennisTate

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This. Yes.

God doesn't make people poor - it's this society that creates an underclass and keeps that underclass right where it is. And it is people who persecute.

Those who don't have arms and legs are unfortunate. Nothing more or less.

Yes……….. this society is geared toward a monetary policy that keeps people in debt…… partly because the people who formulated our monetary policy felt that this was the only way to keep us ignorant masses working hard because we would be too lazy to work if we were not virtually forced to do so!
 
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DennisTate

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Whatever happened to free will? Why does God have to inflict suffering to get what he wants? Is he incapable of doing anything else? Medical science has come a long way since 30 AD - are doctors interfering with God's work? Should we shut down the hospitals?

It seems extreme, but there seems to be no other conclusion possible.

I am of the belief that Christian scriptures take two forms.... yes.... the written Bible is important but Messiah Yeshua - Jesus spent much of his time illustrating how every phenomena in nature teaches us valuable lessons........ if we have ears to hear.

We humans have freedom of choice.... and our choices can play a huge role in making ninety percent or more of cases like Nick Vujic's or Angelos homelessness unnecessary and something only read about in history books!


Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience | Saved from Hell By Jesus Christ | Prophecies of the Future


The image of the future that they gave me then, and it was their image, not one that I created, surprised me. My image had previously been sort of like Star Wars, where everything was space age, plastics, and technology.

The future that they showed me was almost no technology at all. What everybody, absolutely everybody, in this euphoric future spent most of their time doing was raising children. The chief concern of people was children, and everybody considered children to be the most precious commodity in the world.

And when a person became an adult, there was no sense of anxiety, nor hatred, nor competition.

There was this enormous sense of trust and mutual respect. If a person, in this view of the future, became disturbed, then the community of people all cared about the disturbed person falling away from the harmony of the group. Spiritually, through prayer and love, the others would elevate the afflicted person.

What people did with the rest of their time was that they gardened, with almost no physical effort. They showed me that plants, with prayer, would produce huge fruits and vegetables.
 
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DennisTate

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That is a call I would hesitate to answer!

This reminds me of the story from John 9.

"...As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
3 “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world...”

I think that perhaps God has allowed for some of us to be poor, sick, no arms or legs and legs, and persecuted so that others would answer the call to service and minister to them.

Theofane....... I have read a powerful article by a man from Uganda that a modern Cyrus type of Christian political leader is coming along who will set in motion a massive outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7681942/

Do you believe a massive Holy Spirit tsunami is coming?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally I love the idea put forward by a pastor in Uganda that when we Christians support and respect the Jewish people more as they play their role in bringing back Messiah, the Holy Spirit will be poured out unlike ever before in history!

That makes a lot of sense to me!




Eporu Ronald Alfred

Kakira Deliverance Church,
P.O. Box 3191, Kakira, Jinja, Uganda

......

Dear brethren,
I salute you in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ!

RE: SHARING NEW DISCOVERIES OF THE TRUTH IN BIBLE PROPHECY CONCERNING THE IMMINENT HEALING AND UNITY OF THE CHURCH

I am mesmerized by the truth in bible prophecy that the Spirit of God has been revealing over the recent years. Secret things belong to God and those that are revealed belong to us and our children... (Deut 29: 29).

1. King Cyrus the great ruled his country 555 years Before Christ i.e. from 576 BC to 530 BC and authorised the rebuilding of the second temple in Jerusalem. Cyrus of the Old Testament is hence associated with the number 555 and is the shadow figure of incoming Cyrus II of the New Testament. You may learn more about his history from the internet and scriptures. This new truth enables us to identify the leadership of the world that will rebuild the temple in Jerusalem as prophesied in book of Isaiah before the rise of antichrist. Cyrus II is coming to revive the evangelical/Pentecostal church in Jerusalem and restore the headquarters of the church in same city where the church was born. He is set to strip Babylon of the vessels of the temple and the name of the Lord God and transfer that crown back to Jerusalem thus leaving Babylon naked. Cyrus will rebuild the temple in Jerusalem in fulfilment of the prophecy of Jesus as written in the book of John 2:18-23 and the prophecy of Isaiah as written in chapters 40, 41, 45 and 47 of the book of Isaiah. Jesus regarded the temple as the symbol of his own body while saying that he had the power to lay it down on the first day (1st millennium) and rebuild or raise it up on the 3rd day (3rd millennium). Remember that one day in the eyes of God is the same as one thousand years (millennium) as stated in book of 2 Peter 3:8. Rebuilding of the temple is thus associated with unification of the church.

Cyrus II will rebuild the temple in honour of our lord Jesus Christ. The temple will be the unifying (rallying) point of the world wide evangelical church as the original headquarters of the church. Psalms133 denotes that there is such a powerful anointing that comes along with unity among brethren. Unification of the whole body of Jesus Christ will make the church so powerful that she will overrun the world within a short time before the return of our lord Jesus Christ. A divided church is a powerless church whereas a united church is a powerful church. The church can only be able to fulfil her ultimate mission of revealing Jesus to the world once we get united as one body of Jesus Christ following his last prayer for his disciples as written in John 17:20-23.

Cyrus II will erase that false image of Jesus that the counterfeit and Idolatrous state church of Babylon has been projecting around the world and revive the original church that projects the true brilliant image of Jesus Christ. Haggai 2:9 says that the glory of the latter church (temple) will be greater than the glory of the former church (temple).The rise of Cyrus will also usher in the ultimate fulfilment of the prophecy of Joel 2:28 where God intends to pour out His Spirit on all flesh in these last days. The era of Cyrus brings the gentile period of grace to its close and leads to the restoration of the Jewish period of grace and salvation.




2. King Manasseh was the shadow figure (forerunner) of the antichrist in the Old Testament who ruled over Jerusalem exactly 666 years Before Christ i.e. from 697 BC to 642 BC. (2 chronicle 33: 1-2 and 2 kings 21: 1-17). Antichrist is associated with the number 666 as written in the book of Revelation 13:18. Manasseh was the most evil king to have ever ruled over the city of Jerusalem and kingdom of Judah.

Manasseh is reported to have killed so many innocent people in Jerusalem that the streets of Jerusalem were flowing with blood; he worshiped pagan idols and stars; he built pagan alters for idols and stars in the very courtyards of the temple; he sacrificed his sons to idols; he consulted diviners and mediums; he even set up an abominable pagan image at the temple that causes desolation just as the incoming antichrist will do. It was on that basis that God decided to have that first temple destroyed completely since Manasseh had desecrated it.



3. Prophet Jonah was the shadow figure (forerunner) of Jesus Christ in the Old Testament who undertook his prophetic ministry around 777 B.C. Prophet Jonah is hence associated with the number 777. He arose from the shadow and demise of Prophet Elisha. His preaching radiated such great power and authority that turned the city of Nineveh as the rising super power of that time up side down within 3 days only (read the book of Jonah). Jonah was the prophetic force behind the restoration of the lost territories of Israel in the reign of King Jeroboam II of Israel between 782 BC and 741 BC as written in II Kings 14:25. Jonah related with God more or less as his own father and God loved him more or less as His own son. He volunteered to die save occupants of the ship and was raised to life after three days just like Jesus Christ. Jesus compared himself with Jonah as his forerunner in the Old Testament as far as his earthly ministry, death and resurrection was concerned in Mathew 12; 38-41, Luke 11; 29-32. Jesus will also oversee the restoration of the lost territories of Israel just like prophet Jonah when he comes to rule as the king of kings and Lord of Lords. We can therefore correctly associate Jesus Christ with the number 777 just like Jonah as our commander-in-chief, Lord of the Sabbath and fountain of life.

The more we know where we came from the more we know where we are going. You are cordially invited to visit my face book home page for more information and messages. Feel free to share this truth with other brethren just as I received it free of charge from God.

Your brother in Christ

Eporu Ronald
Scientist & Minister of Bible Prophecy

I believe the key for the releasing of this wealth to the Bride of Messiah is for treasurers in each congregation to be willing to hire people like Angelo to do something more worthwhile than merely collect bottles in order to buy apples in order to survive!!!!!!!!!

Just as ancient King Cyrus of Persia gave freedom of religion to the 127 provinces in the Medo-Persian Empire...... the Bride of Messiah....... who will hire the Angelos........... could well have 127 TRILLION dollars released to her..... so that she can back up/ insure the USA dollar from a massive devaluation......... and accomplish an astonishing amount of good all at the same time........
 
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DennisTate

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Now the Angelos of this world....... are not all that picky......... their expectations are somewhat low........ and they might be extremely willing to work for Franklin Graham Dollars and/or Volunteerism Hours or ...... something along that line........


http://www.christianforums.com/t7701455/

North American churches should each have their own currency!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am of the belief that each large church in North America should discuss the printing up of their own church currency unit such as has been done by a group of socially active citizens in Calgary, Canada with their CalgaryDollars.ca

Here is a good article on how important local currencies were during the Great Depression:


Whatcom Watch Online - Story Display


......

Alternative Currency in the U.S.

Irving Fisher, an American professor of economics at Yale University, visited Worgl before the local currency was suppressed and witnessed the ‘miracle’ firsthand. When he returned to the United States, Fisher spread the word by traveling and lecturing across the country, advocating the use of the Worgl ‘scrip’ everywhere. Inspired by his vision, hundreds of communities began issuing their own currency, and by 1934 there were over 1,000 local communities using ‘scrip’ throughout the U.S.

Every one of these communities experienced a tremendous rejuvenation of their local economies. They thrived while others suffered. Fisher then met with President Franklin D. Roosevelt, proposing the implementation of government-sanctioned local ‘scrip’ in every community in America. When FDR consulted with his top financial advisors and bankers, however, he was advised to shut all the ‘scrip’ systems down, which he did. Instead, he borrowed large amounts of money from bankers, at interest, and used it to pay for the Reconstruction Finance Corporation and the other work-creation projects, which collectively came to be known as the ‘New Deal.’ So ended the last widespread use of a local currency within the U.S.

Whatcom Watch Online - The Truth About Money: The Money System—Isn’t There a Better Way?

.....

One of the most obvious ways to use a church currency would be to give an offer to homeless people in your area....to become actors who play the role of homeless people being assisted by your church to address their specific situation!

People with a drug or alcohol problem...could be come actors playing the role of themselves....and they could be paid in church dollars for the time that they put into your film project?!

http://www.christianforums.com/t7681433/

Concepts for reality, semi-reality and documentary films that address social issues!
I am firmly convinced that it is possible for Christians to use films to address specific problems in our modern world in such a way that many lives are changed and Christianity itself comes to be viewed in a much more positive way!
 
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DennisTate

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This. Yes.

God doesn't make people poor - it's this society that creates an underclass and keeps that underclass right where it is. And it is people who persecute.

Those who don't have arms and legs are unfortunate. Nothing more or less.

I would love to get your reaction to post #91 that I just posted Hetta?

Do you think that a significant percentage of homeless people in America would be interested in working for Franklin Graham dollars and/or Franklin Graham Volunteerism Hours.... similar to the Ithaca Hour?

Ithaca Hours - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



The Ithaca HOUR is a local currency used in Ithaca, New York and is the oldest and largest local currency system in the United States that is still operating.[1][not in citation given] It has inspired other similar systems in Madison, Wisconsin; Corvallis, Oregon;[2] and a proposed system in the Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania.[3] One Ithaca HOUR is valued at US$10 and is generally recommended to be used as payment for one hour's work, although the rate is negotiable.
 
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DennisTate

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This. Yes.

God doesn't make people poor - it's this society that creates an underclass and keeps that underclass right where it is. And it is people who persecute.

Those who don't have arms and legs are unfortunate. Nothing more or less.

Pastor Shane Warren had a visionary dream of a hurricane of money that he perceived as a massive devaluation of the USA dollar. His reaction was fear........ but...… obviously the fulfillment of this is one part of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus taking over in the affairs of mankind!


Shane Warren - America | Sid Roth - It's Supernatural

Guest: Shane Warren
July 9-15, 2012

We are seeing Bible prophecy fulfilled everyday on TV newscasts and in our newspapers! Wars & rumors of wars. The shaking of the global economy. The threat of Muslim extremism. Find the outpouring of God's blessing in your life as America comes under judgment. Don't be SURPRISED this comes before the Rapture. Learn how to thrive even in trying times!
 
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DennisTate

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Revelation 11:15
"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."
 
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DennisTate

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While his story is certainly inspiring, there seems to be a paradox in his approach: he uses his own disability to inspire others with disability. But those with disability were created so by God... if God wants to help people with disabilities, why not just stop creating them with their handicaps? That seems far more expedient, and wouldn't cause a man to be born with no arms or legs.

Again, he's an inspiration, he truly is, but theologically speaking he seems... contradictory.
From what I have read of visions of the future as given to near death experiencers this will happen within two to three centuries.
 
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That is a call I would hesitate to answer!

This reminds me of the story from John 9.

"...As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
3 “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world...”

I think that perhaps God has allowed for some of us to be poor, sick, no arms or legs and legs, and persecuted so that others would answer the call to service and minister to them.


Once we meet the Ancient of Days the FAther and get to know Him.......
I believe that we would be willing to take on almost any burden to
attempt to bring joy to the Father.... which happens best when we assist
somebody to turn to God.
 
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DennisTate

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While his story is certainly inspiring, there seems to be a paradox in his approach: he uses his own disability to inspire others with disability. But those with disability were created so by God... if God wants to help people with disabilities, why not just stop creating them with their handicaps? That seems far more expedient, and wouldn't cause a man to be born with no arms or legs.

Again, he's an inspiration, he truly is, but theologically speaking he seems... contradictory.

I remember reading in one of the two books on the near death experience of Dannion Brinkley that we humans....... .were viewed as heroes and pioneers from the point of view of heaven.

This was especially true when a spiritual being volunteered to play out the role of a child destined to have cancer or some other serious illness.

What Dannion wrote helps to explain why so many very sick or handicapped children have such a wonderful and altruistic view toward life and everybody around them.
 
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