Has anyone read David E. Taylor's book Face to Face Appearences from Jesus ?

[jamadan]

If you read his book, you will see that Jesus appears to him PERSONALLY, not in an outward flashy way as the scripture you referenced indicates of a false Jesus would do.

So has EVERYONE had this experience without exception? That's one of Taylor's promises/guarantees. All by itself, this claim puts him alongside famous snake oil salesmen the world over.

Remember, any deception will lead you AWAY from God or lead you to believe in a half-truth about God, or ADDS something to God that creates a burden. In fact, anything that does not focus on KNOWING God PERSONALLY is a deception.

Deception comes in many forms. If it leads you to think visions of Jesus are promised just by reading a book, it's far enough. And it doesn't have to add a burden, it might remove a burden called the cost of discipleship. It might try to claim that holiness is not important to God and lead to all manner of sin.

You claim deception is anything that does not focus on knowing God personally is a deception. I'm not even sure how to interpret that. Deception is anything that promotes beliefs that are not true, or not the whole truth (as in half-truths or omission) . . . like claiming to have had a vision, selling books about it, going around speaking everywhere talking about and taking up collections when it never happened - that's deception.

Going to church will not save you, reading the bible and memorizing it will not save you, praying will not save you, worshiping will not save you. Only a relationship with Jesus will save you. That is what David Taylor is promoting loud and clear in his book. Only those who KNOW him PERSONALLY AND INTIMATELY will go to heaven.

Jesus made it very simple. He said, 'If you love me, obey me'. He talked about the sheep who get to Heaven as those who fed the hungry, clothed the naked, provided drink to the thirsty . . . evidence or fruit that we love our neighbors as ourselves. So your definition of those who get to Heaven does not align with Jesus'. Guess which one I hold to be true?

You have to know God NOW before you get to heaven. So those who say they will wait to know or see God when you get to heaven, or ridicule a prophet of God, or use their own understanding to discredit someone who is not against God, may not make it to heaven.

Wow, you're pretty much all over the place here, aren't you? First its just about knowing God, but now if we don't visibly see God like Taylor claims now and say that's okay with us, we won't make it to Heaven? Isn't that 'adding to the burden" you previously said was a deception? What if we want to see Jesus and can't even after reading the book . . . Taylor's that is, not the Lord's. Are we still denied Heaven?

Your interesting claim comes in that final statement. Daring to speak against the 'prophet' . . . ah yes, the foundation of many cult figures. How dare we question or apply any discernment or test it against Scripture? If we call Taylor into question, we're rejected by God and can't get to Heaven according to you.

Well, let me be as plain as possible. In the authority of the Holy Spirit, I am telling you that David Taylor is lying and is a false prophet. Such statements can be found throughout Scripture and is commended by the Lord in Revelation when addressing the congregations who did not tolerate false prophets and apostles.

The biggest hindrance to communion with God is our perception of who He is. Basing our perception of God’s character on personal opinions, logic/reason or attitudes of others will skew our understanding of His nature. Intimacy develops as a result of close contact with someone over a period of time. Did you ever think about the fact that He is already waiting for you? What an awesome thought: The “Creator” of all that is or ever will be is waiting to talk with you and me FACE TO FACE. God has appeared to people even before David Taylor wrote his book. Now that its coming to the end times where he will pour out his spirit on all flesh and people will have dreams and visions (Acts 2:17), God has used David to tell us that now, people can see him face to face for those who are his children. Don't you long to experience deeper experience of Jesus in your life?

This is non-sense. The Spirit of God will come and dwell within us - that is the promise of the New Covenant in the blood of Christ. We have this Treasure in earthen vessels. There is no promise is Scripture that we will see Him face to face. Can it happen? Certainly. God can appear to people. My 8 year old son saw him in a dream last year. But making that a promise and basing salvation on the experience is extra-Scriptural. God never made that promise anywhere in Scripture and doesn't make that promise today.

Intimacy with the Lord is not validated with a face to face experience. Again, He's dwelling within, there is no greater intimacy than that. We already have it, we just need to appreciate what we have been given. There is not striving to achieve this.

One of Jesus' most intimate friends was Peter and he's not exactly a touchy-feelly kind of guy. He demonstrated his intimacy by leaving everything to follow Jesus, by his willingness to feed the sheep, by his willingness to die on the cross upside down for his Lord and Savior. He fulfilled Jesus' proof of 'if you love me, obey me" . . . THAT'S INTIMACY! It's not today's misapplied teachings about our feelings and love. Our love is commitment and willingness to surrender all.

I pray you read through this response and pause to pray about it. You've bought into some deceptions and I'd like to help steer you in the right direction.

 

[JakeRussel]

Originally Posted by JakeRussel 

If you read his book, you will see that Jesus appears to him PERSONALLY, not in an outward flashy way as the scripture you referenced indicates of a false Jesus would do.

JAMADEN's REBUTTAL:

So has EVERYONE had this experience without exception? That's one of Taylor's promises/guarantees. All by itself, this claim puts him alongside famous snake oil salesmen the world over.


RESPONSE:

David has never said these would have no exception, otherwise he WOULD be deceiving people. Only a few people in the Bible saw God/Jesus, also there are few who will enter heaven despite Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. There are exceptions everywhere and in all things, including gravity, and physics even though there are laws to these things. Also, comparing a man of God to a snake oil salesmen is very dangerous. David is promoting God, not selling something. (And no, he has to charge money for the book, he can't give it away free.)




Originally Posted by JakeRussel 

Remember, any deception will lead you AWAY from God or lead you to believe in a half-truth about God, or ADDS something to God that creates a burden. In fact, anything that does not focus on KNOWING God PERSONALLY is a deception.

JAMADEN's REBUTTAL:

1. Deception comes in many forms.
2. If it leads you to think visions of Jesus are promised just by reading a book, it's far enough. And it doesn't have to add a burden, it might remove a burden called the cost of discipleship.
3. It might try to claim that holiness is not important to God and lead to all manner of sin.
4. You claim deception is anything that does not focus on knowing God personally is a deception. I'm not even sure how to interpret that.
5. Deception is anything that promotes beliefs that are not true, or not the whole truth (as in half-truths or omission) . . . like claiming to have had a vision, selling books about it, going around speaking everywhere talking about and taking up collections when it never happened - that's deception.


RESPONSE:

1. Correct. Even what you currently believe can be a deception as well. How do you know you are not deceived?
2. Using the words, "might" means you are using your own definition of what is deceptive or not. As I have said, if you have a preconceived idea what you think God would or would not do, you are arguing your opinion and not truth.
3.You use "might" again. Your opinion is not fact. The word of God is fact. Your opinion about deception is at a moot point because how do you know you are not deceived? What criteria would you base that answer on? Why would that criteria not allow David's claims to not be a deception?
4. Exactly as I thought. If you KNOW God, you would understand this. Since you do not know God, you would not understand this. Deception is anything that puts a focus on anything but knowing God with your heart, soul and mind. Even "Christian" activities can be deceptive. [This can be further discussed separately in its own post]
5. Well then, "what is truth"? You must define what you mean by "truth" in order to validate this otherwise false definition of deception. I guess every preacher in America is deceived for the criteria you mentioned (selling books, speaking about "seeing God" at seminars, taking collections, etc.) Once again, very little of what you are saying is biblical, but rather a personal opinion.





Originally Posted by JakeRussel 

Going to church will not save you, reading the bible and memorizing it will not save you, praying will not save you, worshiping will not save you. Only a relationship with Jesus will save you. That is what David Taylor is promoting loud and clear in his book. Only those who KNOW him PERSONALLY AND INTIMATELY will go to heaven.

JAMADEN's REBUTTAL:

Jesus made it very simple. He said, 'If you love me, obey me'. He talked about the sheep who get to Heaven as those who fed the hungry, clothed the naked, provided drink to the thirsty . . . evidence or fruit that we love our neighbors as ourselves. So your definition of those who get to Heaven does not align with Jesus'. Guess which one I hold to be true?


RESPONSE:

You can know OF God, know about God, know what God’s Word says, but do you know God intimately? Mental knowledge is not knowledge from Heaven. Many people know of the things the One does but they do not personally know the One. A single experience with the face of God is enough to change a life. Those who have had an experience with God speak with precision about God.

1. Feeding the hungry, clothing the naked is meaningless if you do not have love. 1 Corinthians 13:2 If you don't have love, you don't have God. God is love.
2. Doing good deeds is worthless and is not fruit at all. Your goodness is filthy rags in God's eyes. God makes the fruit. You have none in you to produce. If you can make the fruit, you do not need the Holy Spirit. Its called the "frutit of the spirit" not the fruit of good works.
3. Have you read the what God has said about those who think they are going to heaven because they have followed all the "rules"? God determines who goes to heaven. Many will say " did I not do great works in your name" and God will say, I never knew you. Matthew 7:21-23 You must KNOW God to go to heaven. Any other critera is an insult to what God is asking you to do. God wants YOU, not your offerings. Hebrews 10:8







Originally Posted by JakeRussel

You have to know God NOW before you get to heaven. So those who say they will wait to know or see God when you get to heaven, or ridicule a prophet of God, or use their own understanding to discredit someone who is not against God, may not make it to heaven.

JAMADEN's REBUTTAL:

Wow, you're pretty much all over the place here, aren't you? First its just about knowing God, but now if we don't visibly see God like Taylor claims now and say that's okay with us, we won't make it to Heaven? Isn't that 'adding to the burden" you previously said was a deception? What if we want to see Jesus and can't even after reading the book . . . Taylor's that is, not the Lord's. Are we still denied Heaven?

Your interesting claim comes in that final statement. Daring to speak against the 'prophet' . . . ah yes, the foundation of many cult figures. How dare we question or apply any discernment or test it against Scripture? If we call Taylor into question, we're rejected by God and can't get to Heaven according to you.

Well, let me be as plain as possible. In the authority of the Holy Spirit, I am telling you that David Taylor is lying and is a false prophet. Such statements can be found throughout Scripture and is commended by the Lord in Revelation when addressing the congregations who did not tolerate false prophets and apostles.


RESPONSE:

You are adding words to what I am saying. Seeing God is not the criteria for heaven nor is it what David is saying. Also, how is knowing someone face to face a burden. Would you say that to a loved one you know? Only the pure in heart will see God. Matthew 5:8 You must know God to be purified. Simply saying a prayer does not do anything if you do not know the one whom you pray to. Knowing about God is not knowing God intimately. You must pursue him with ALL your heart. You must repent of ALL your sins, you must humble yourselves fully. You must give God ALL of you. Anyone who relies on anything but God and God alone is on shaky ground. All ground not in Christ is shaking and subject to deception. Even the Bible can be used to deceive you if you do not know God. Even Satan quoted scripture to Jesus to tempt him.






Originally Posted by JakeRussel 

The biggest hindrance to communion with God is our perception of who He is. Basing our perception of God’s character on personal opinions, logic/reason or attitudes of others will skew our understanding of His nature. Intimacy develops as a result of close contact with someone over a period of time. Did you ever think about the fact that He is already waiting for you? What an awesome thought: The “Creator” of all that is or ever will be is waiting to talk with you and me FACE TO FACE. God has appeared to people even before David Taylor wrote his book. Now that its coming to the end times where he will pour out his spirit on all flesh and people will have dreams and visions (Acts 2:17), God has used David to tell us that now, people can see him face to face for those who are his children. Don't you long to experience deeper experience of Jesus in your life?


JAMADEN's REBUTTAL:

This is non-sense. The Spirit of God will come and dwell within us - that is the promise of the New Covenant in the blood of Christ. We have this Treasure in earthen vessels. There is no promise is Scripture that we will see Him face to face. Can it happen? Certainly. God can appear to people. My 8 year old son saw him in a dream last year. But making that a promise and basing salvation on the experience is extra-Scriptural. God never made that promise anywhere in Scripture and doesn't make that promise today.

Intimacy with the Lord is not validated with a face to face experience. Again, He's dwelling within, there is no greater intimacy than that. We already have it, we just need to appreciate what we have been given. There is not striving to achieve this.

One of Jesus' most intimate friends was Peter and he's not exactly a touchy-feelly kind of guy. He demonstrated his intimacy by leaving everything to follow Jesus, by his willingness to feed the sheep, by his willingness to die on the cross upside down for his Lord and Savior. He fulfilled Jesus' proof of 'if you love me, obey me" . . . THAT'S INTIMACY! It's not today's misapplied teachings about our feelings and love. Our love is commitment and willingness to surrender all.



RESPONSE:

I repeat, seeing God is not a criteria at all. However, if you want to know God more deeply, you would want to go deeper and David tells you how. God allows us to do this since God said in the last days he will pour out his spirit on all flesh Joel 2:28. Why would this be so strange if God said it in his word, and has told a prophet of God that you can do it? Are you NOT wanting this to be true? You would have to stretch whatever biblical reference you can find to TRY to disprove what David and I have said about seeing Jesus.

Since you refer to seeing Jesus as a possible deception, is your 8 year old child deceived from dreaming about him? I'm very sure he's not.

Remember, Peter doubted Jesus and was not nearly as close to him as when he started his ministry, AFTER Jesus left. Obedience alone is not intimacy. Otherwise, the Pharisees would not have been so scalded by Jesus for relying on the law to save them. We are free from the law and we serve in the spirit. Romans 7:6 Following the law of God is not obedience. The law condemns. Only love is obedience. This is intimacy. Anything else will get in the way of intimacy which removes love, which removes obedience, which removes salvation. Salvation is by faith, of course, but Faith is more than positive thinking. Positive thinking will NOT produce faith. Faith is trust in God, and the only way to develop trust is to learn to KNOW God.



JAMADEN's REBUTTAL:

I pray you read through this response and pause to pray about it. You've bought into some deceptions and I'd like to help steer you in the right direction.


JAKE's SUMMARY:

Thanks. I never refuse anyone to pray for me. I too will pray for you. You must understand that deception (even Biblical information) can masquerade as truth when viewed in the wrong way, or if every part of the word is not addressed. In the end times, even the elect can fall away, if that seems impossible to believe. So you should not be closed minded and assume you hold THE truth. Otherwise that would be a catch 22 situation. I would be glad to discuss this a little further.

I don't want this to be an argument, because this is not what God would want, brothers arguing over doctrine. I leave that to debating atheists on a wide range of subjects, sometimes for 2 months straight of back and forth weekly emails, (which I have done twice, and I'm worn out of doing). So please approach this as an exchange of info. We will both learn from this because we both want to do this for the Glory of God.

 

[Alive_Again]

So has EVERYONE had this experience without exception? That's one of Taylor's promises/guarantees. All by itself, this claim puts him alongside famous snake oil salesmen the world over.

You'll find that he says that "Jesus" made the promise, not David Taylor. David can't "conjure" up Jesus at will. Jesus can, for those who hear the Word and receive it, grant a visitation (by whatever form He chooses).

You claim David makes this claim, but he is only being obedient to say what Jesus told him. Pretty gusty I'd say, since the like of "brothers" like you step up and bring him into disrepute. Something you do readily and on MANY occasions. If one were to go back over your posts, you'd not doubt see a pattern of behavior that is the fruit from a tree that reproduces after its own kind.

You can change your mind at any time and change your destination and your behavior with your own free will.

Deception comes in many forms. If it leads you to think visions of Jesus are promised just by reading a book, it's far enough. And it doesn't have to add a burden, it might remove a burden called the cost of discipleship. It might try to claim that holiness is not important to God and lead to all manner of sin.

The simple truth is that you apparently have not read the book and so you're not qualified to comment on it. You don't understand the setting or context that it is given, so you can only do what so many do, and that is to take what is said out of context and make it into a (false) doctrine. I wish I had my copy, I'd love to quote some of it to you and you'd see that what you're saying is outrageous.

Deception is anything that promotes beliefs that are not true, or not the whole truth (as in half-truths or omission) . . . like claiming to have had a vision, selling books about it, going around speaking everywhere talking about and taking up collections when it never happened - that's deception.

You're promoting a take on this without reading the book. Like others, you accuse Taylor of doing this to sell books. What is so utterly outlandish is the fact that David is a godly man, living and pursuing holiness. He is fulfilling his ministry with wonderful fruits. You should be able to pick up on that right off the bat, without any controversy. Why go on about taking up collections and selling books?

Originally Posted by JakeRussel View Post
You have to know God NOW before you get to heaven. So those who say they will wait to know or see God when you get to heaven, or ridicule a prophet of God, or use their own understanding to discredit someone who is not against God, may not make it to heaven.

Wow, you're pretty much all over the place here, aren't you? First its just about knowing God, but now if we don't visibly see God like Taylor claims now and say that's okay with us, we won't make it to Heaven?

I don't believe that is what he was saying. You have to know God. The biggest point in my view, is that if you go knocking the family of God, coming against a display of the anointing, making accusation, you can miss Heaven.

Your interesting claim comes in that final statement. Daring to speak against the 'prophet' . . . ah yes, the foundation of many cult figures. How dare we question or apply any discernment or test it against Scripture?

Again, it's not a blanket "don't question the prophet!" statement, because their are many false prophets and apostles. It's when "you" show up (meaning your flesh), and "speaking against" (the anointing), that is the unwise part.

Well, let me be as plain as possible. In the authority of the Holy Spirit, I am telling you that David Taylor is lying and is a false prophet.

You speak judgment against yourself! You have no authority whatsoever to make a statement like that. You're COMMANDED' to love him and not run him through the mud.

...and is commended by the Lord in Revelation when addressing the congregations who did not tolerate false prophets and apostles.

Why do we tolerate those who violate scripture brazenly by making fleshly judgments full of condemnation? Ravening wolves on the inside. You talk about not needing feelings of love and all this. Although we don't walk by feelings, you DO have them, and we're supposed to go to places like revivals and seek out these greater experiences. It's supposed to be like your first love, and let me tell you, there were a LOT of feelings involved (more often than not).

People like David are given experiences like that to go back to the body and light the fires of hope and faith and cause you to rise up and believe. Dare to believe that John 14 isn't just a small measure of the presence of the Lord.

There is no promise is Scripture that we will see Him face to face. Can it happen? Certainly. God can appear to people.

John 14 says that He'll manifest Himself to the one who loves Him. Their are degrees of love, fervency, and even obedience. They are rewarded by Him (He is the prize!) So if the church accepts a lessor manifestation, and the Lord sends someone along to tell us to expect more! Love more! Believe! What is the harm in that?

I pray you read through this response and pause to pray about it. You've bought into some deceptions and I'd like to help steer you in the right direction.

I hope everyone who would looks carefully at the fruits. Dangerous judgments against the body! Read the book and compare the two behaviors and draw your own conclusions.

You can turn about and cease your judgments against the Lord's body (actually discern it). You're only allowed to speak about what is said (and that with love), not against the person. You absolutely terrify me with the ease you utter words of damnation. Tell us about your authority.

 

[Yitzchak]

So has EVERYONE had this experience without exception? That's one of Taylor's promises/guarantees. All by itself, this claim puts him alongside famous snake oil salesmen the world over.



Deception comes in many forms. If it leads you to think visions of Jesus are promised just by reading a book, it's far enough. And it doesn't have to add a burden, it might remove a burden called the cost of discipleship. It might try to claim that holiness is not important to God and lead to all manner of sin.

You claim deception is anything that does not focus on knowing God personally is a deception. I'm not even sure how to interpret that. Deception is anything that promotes beliefs that are not true, or not the whole truth (as in half-truths or omission) . . . like claiming to have had a vision, selling books about it, going around speaking everywhere talking about and taking up collections when it never happened - that's deception.



Jesus made it very simple. He said, 'If you love me, obey me'. He talked about the sheep who get to Heaven as those who fed the hungry, clothed the naked, provided drink to the thirsty . . . evidence or fruit that we love our neighbors as ourselves. So your definition of those who get to Heaven does not align with Jesus'. Guess which one I hold to be true?



Wow, you're pretty much all over the place here, aren't you? First its just about knowing God, but now if we don't visibly see God like Taylor claims now and say that's okay with us, we won't make it to Heaven? Isn't that 'adding to the burden" you previously said was a deception? What if we want to see Jesus and can't even after reading the book . . . Taylor's that is, not the Lord's. Are we still denied Heaven?

Your interesting claim comes in that final statement. Daring to speak against the 'prophet' . . . ah yes, the foundation of many cult figures. How dare we question or apply any discernment or test it against Scripture? If we call Taylor into question, we're rejected by God and can't get to Heaven according to you.

Well, let me be as plain as possible. In the authority of the Holy Spirit, I am telling you that David Taylor is lying and is a false prophet. Such statements can be found throughout Scripture and is commended by the Lord in Revelation when addressing the congregations who did not tolerate false prophets and apostles.



This is non-sense. The Spirit of God will come and dwell within us - that is the promise of the New Covenant in the blood of Christ. We have this Treasure in earthen vessels. There is no promise is Scripture that we will see Him face to face. Can it happen? Certainly. God can appear to people. My 8 year old son saw him in a dream last year. But making that a promise and basing salvation on the experience is extra-Scriptural. God never made that promise anywhere in Scripture and doesn't make that promise today.

Intimacy with the Lord is not validated with a face to face experience. Again, He's dwelling within, there is no greater intimacy than that. We already have it, we just need to appreciate what we have been given. There is not striving to achieve this.

One of Jesus' most intimate friends was Peter and he's not exactly a touchy-feelly kind of guy. He demonstrated his intimacy by leaving everything to follow Jesus, by his willingness to feed the sheep, by his willingness to die on the cross upside down for his Lord and Savior. He fulfilled Jesus' proof of 'if you love me, obey me" . . . THAT'S INTIMACY! It's not today's misapplied teachings about our feelings and love. Our love is commitment and willingness to surrender all.

I pray you read through this response and pause to pray about it. You've bought into some deceptions and I'd like to help steer you in the right direction.

I have never read the book. I have also never had a vision or appearance of any kind involving Jesus....I do have a relationship with God and believe that I have had experiences with the Holy Spirit.

 

[JakeRussel]

For an even deeper revelation from a Prophetess of God, read these letters dictated from God to warn his people that his return is extremely soon coming. If you were moved by David Taylor's book, you will be overwhelmed at this. It has changed my life after reading it:

I AM COMING! Volume 1, Parts 1 to 32, As eBook (pdf format):
http ://www . smashwords .com/books/download/62292/1/latest/0/0/i-am-coming-volume-1.pdf

I AM COMING! Volume 2, Parts 33 to 52, As eBook (pdf format):
http ://www . smashwords. com/books/download/62298/1/latest/0/0/i-am-coming-volume-2.pdf

I AM COMING! Volume 3, Parts 53 to 73, As eBook (pdf format):
http ://www . smash words. com/books/download/72624/1/latest/0/0/i-am-coming-volume-3.pdf

Also, visit the web site where Susan has more prophecies. Many people are joining in to spread these prophecies to everyone online to warn the church that Jesus is coming very very very soon, like at any moment and few are ready, and many many Christians will be left behind because they are not ready.

http ://end-times-prophecy. com/blog/

 

[Alive_Again]

So has EVERYONE had this experience without exception? That's one of Taylor's promises/guarantees. All by itself, this claim puts him alongside famous snake oil salesmen the world over.

You'll find that he says that "Jesus" made the promise, not David Taylor. David can't "conjure" up Jesus at will. Jesus can, for those who hear the Word and receive it, grant a visitation (by whatever form He chooses).

You claim David makes this claim, but he is only being obedient to say what Jesus told him. Pretty gusty I'd say, since the like of "brothers" like you step up and bring him into disrepute. Something you do readily and on MANY occasions. If one were to go back over your posts, you'd not doubt see a pattern of behavior that is the fruit from a tree that reproduces after its own kind.

You can change your mind at any time and change your destination and your behavior with your own free will.

Deception comes in many forms. If it leads you to think visions of Jesus are promised just by reading a book, it's far enough. And it doesn't have to add a burden, it might remove a burden called the cost of discipleship. It might try to claim that holiness is not important to God and lead to all manner of sin.

The simple truth is that you apparently have not read the book and so you're not qualified to comment on it. You don't understand the setting or context that it is given, so you can only do what so many do, and that is to take what is said out of context and make it into a (false) doctrine. I wish I had my copy, I'd love to quote some of it to you and you'd see that what you're saying is outrageous.

Deception is anything that promotes beliefs that are not true, or not the whole truth (as in half-truths or omission) . . . like claiming to have had a vision, selling books about it, going around speaking everywhere talking about and taking up collections when it never happened - that's deception.

You're promoting a take on this without reading the book. Like others, you accuse Taylor of doing this to sell books. What is so utterly outlandish is the fact that David is a godly man, living and pursuing holiness. He is fulfilling his ministry with wonderful fruits. You should be able to pick up on that right off the bat, without any controversy. Why go on about taking up collections and selling books?

Originally Posted by JakeRussel View Post
You have to know God NOW before you get to heaven. So those who say they will wait to know or see God when you get to heaven, or ridicule a prophet of God, or use their own understanding to discredit someone who is not against God, may not make it to heaven.

Wow, you're pretty much all over the place here, aren't you? First its just about knowing God, but now if we don't visibly see God like Taylor claims now and say that's okay with us, we won't make it to Heaven?

I don't believe that is what he was saying. You have to know God. The biggest point in my view, is that if you go knocking the family of God, coming against a display of the anointing, making accusation, you can miss Heaven.

Your interesting claim comes in that final statement. Daring to speak against the 'prophet' . . . ah yes, the foundation of many cult figures. How dare we question or apply any discernment or test it against Scripture?

Again, it's not a blanket "don't question the prophet!" statement, because their are many false prophets and apostles. It's when "you" show up (meaning your flesh), and "speaking against" (the anointing), that is the unwise part.

Well, let me be as plain as possible. In the authority of the Holy Spirit, I am telling you that David Taylor is lying and is a false prophet.

You speak judgment against yourself! You have no authority whatsoever to make a statement like that. You're COMMANDED' to love him and not run him through the mud.

...and is commended by the Lord in Revelation when addressing the congregations who did not tolerate false prophets and apostles.

Why do we tolerate those who violate scripture brazenly by making fleshly judgments full of condemnation? Ravening wolves on the inside. You talk about not needing feelings of love and all this. Although we don't walk by feelings, you DO have them, and we're supposed to go to places like revivals and seek out these greater experiences. It's supposed to be like your first love, and let me tell you, there were a LOT of feelings involved (more often than not).

People like David are given experiences like that to go back to the body and light the fires of hope and faith and cause you to rise up and believe. Dare to believe that John 14 isn't just a small measure of the presence of the Lord.

There is no promise is Scripture that we will see Him face to face. Can it happen? Certainly. God can appear to people.

John 14 says that He'll manifest Himself to the one who loves Him. Their are degrees of love, fervency, and even obedience. They are rewarded by Him (He is the prize!) So if the church accepts a lessor manifestation, and the Lord sends someone along to tell us to expect more! Love more! Believe! What is the harm in that?

I pray you read through this response and pause to pray about it. You've bought into some deceptions and I'd like to help steer you in the right direction.

I hope everyone who would looks carefully at the fruits. Dangerous judgments against the body! Read the book and compare the two behaviors and draw your own conclusions.

You can turn about and cease your judgments against the Lord's body (actually discern it). You're only allowed to speak about what is said (and that with love), not against the person. You absolutely terrify me with the ease you utter words of damnation. Tell us about your authority.

 

[jamadan]

I have never read the book. I have also never had a vision or appearance of any kind involving Jesus....I do have a relationship with God and believe that I have had experiences with the Holy Spirit.

Exactly. In the New Covenant, we are given the Holy Spirit to dwell within us so we have intimacy and knowledge of God. Jesus promised to send us the Spirit, which He did on Pentecost, and when we get filled with the Spirit, we have Him forever.

Jesus never promised to visit us in person face to face. He has appeared to some in dreams and visions, but His indwelling Spirit is a far better gift as He can remain with us, leading and guiding us every day. This whole thing is based on Taylor's false interpretation of John 14 stating that Jesus promised to visibly show himself ('manifest') to those that believe and buy his book. Of course, we know He was speaking of the Holy Spirit, but Taylor doesn't recognize that and is basing his deception on those who similarly don't know the Word and are easily deceived.

 

[jamadan]

Here's just one example of the kind of teachings Taylor puts out there that are just plain unScriptural.

"Like most Christians, David Taylor, had always believed Hosea 6:3 that reads “he shall come unto us as rain” for “he” to mean Jesus. Until one day he had a conversation with a 7 year old boy who had been taken to Heaven by Jesus and had a message for David, from Jesus.

Having been to Heaven himself, David asked the boy questions about what he saw there, confirming to him that he, too, had been to Heaven and seen Jesus. The boy goes on to tell David that Jesus was beside him, walking and talking throughout the visitation.

One of the places the boy had visited in Heaven that he described in full detail was the Throne Room of the Father, a place where David has also seen and visited in Heaven. David asks the young boy if he seen the Father and he replied he had not.

David then asks the young boy why the Father’s Throne Room was empty and the young boy replied, “Because He was on earth working with you. Jesus told me to give you a message. He said to tell David that I am pleased with what he preaches because he doesn’t just preach what people want to hear, he preaches what I want to hear.”

The visitation the young boy had corrected something that David had preached wrong for years. In Hosea 6:3 where it says “He shall come unto us as the latter and former rain to the earth” was not Jesus, but the Father Himself! The Father will come off His throne and come to earth in this last dispensation for the move of God!"


So according to Taylor, the Father is no longer on the throne but left it in order to come down to 'work with Taylor" for this end times move of God. There's a number of nonsensical things like this, but this one had me laughing so hard I had to post it for the few here who have the ears of the Spirit of God, Who is actually the One here on the earth working with us, the entire Church.

This guy has all the makings of a major cult figure folks. He calls himself 'America's Moses'. The more I read, the more ridiculous it gets.

 

[Tobias]

1Cor 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.


I'm having a hard time equating a "face to face encounter with Jesus" with simply having a relationship with God. Most Bible-Believing Evangelical Christians place relationship over religion. Many even claim they have no denomination and/or no religion, because all they have is relationship. Granted, when we talk to some of them they may sound like the only relationship they have is with their beloved Bible, but still... the goal of their faith is technically a relationship with Jesus.

I think some of us are literally judging this book by it's cover. I know I am. I have had dozens of spiritual encounters with notable figures; and can just imagine how this book could lay the groundwork for people to experience a false christ. It's how the system works for making connections with pagan gods. A few testimonies and some teaching on how it's ok, and how just about anybody can do it; and pretty soon you're making contact with Apollo, Odin, Hecate, or the Morrigan.


JakeRussel seems to think though that rejecting this book is the same as rejecting any sort of real, interactive relationship with God. To be honest, that is a twist I never expected! I guess it all depends on how the teachings are presented in the book -- which I haven't read.

 

[jamadan]

So here's the photo that Taylor claims was God's face appearing over Canada demonstrating that he was telling the truth about God appearing to them face to face. Many of his faithful followers place quite a bit of stock in this. Looking at it myself, I couldn't help but to see there are really two faces in the clouds . . . on the surface is one and in the shadow underneath is a second. You decide . . . does this prove anything? Doesn't prove anything to me other than we can see things in any cloud.

 

[JakeRussel]

Here's just one example of the kind of teachings Taylor puts out there that are just plain unScriptural.

"Like most Christians, David Taylor, had always believed Hosea 6:3 that reads “he shall come unto us as rain” for “he” to mean Jesus. Until one day he had a conversation with a 7 year old boy who had been taken to Heaven by Jesus and had a message for David, from Jesus.

Having been to Heaven himself, David asked the boy questions about what he saw there, confirming to him that he, too, had been to Heaven and seen Jesus. The boy goes on to tell David that Jesus was beside him, walking and talking throughout the visitation.

One of the places the boy had visited in Heaven that he described in full detail was the Throne Room of the Father, a place where David has also seen and visited in Heaven. David asks the young boy if he seen the Father and he replied he had not.

David then asks the young boy why the Father’s Throne Room was empty and the young boy replied, “Because He was on earth working with you. Jesus told me to give you a message. He said to tell David that I am pleased with what he preaches because he doesn’t just preach what people want to hear, he preaches what I want to hear.”

The visitation the young boy had corrected something that David had preached wrong for years. In Hosea 6:3 where it says “He shall come unto us as the latter and former rain to the earth” was not Jesus, but the Father Himself! The Father will come off His throne and come to earth in this last dispensation for the move of God!"


So according to Taylor, the Father is no longer on the throne but left it in order to come down to 'work with Taylor" for this end times move of God. There's a number of nonsensical things like this, but this one had me laughing so hard I had to post it for the few here who have the ears of the Spirit of God, Who is actually the One here on the earth working with us, the entire Church.

This guy has all the makings of a major cult figure folks. He calls himself 'America's Moses'. The more I read, the more ridiculous it gets.

Where did you get this from?

 

[jamadan]

it's from a summary from 1 of his followers. It's also on his own website all you have to do is Google David Taylor and God the Father come to earth. I think it's the first link that will appear. I'm answering from my cellphone and cutting and pasting links does not work sorry.

 

[Biblicist]

Where did you get this from?

That link is http://www.joshuamediaministries.org/facetoface/thefather

About the only question we can have regarding this very odd character is did he start his ‘ministry’ while he was going through some emotional disturbance or did he simply realise that there are a few quick dollars to be made within some areas of todays church. It could even be that as he has been telling so many lies for so long and that there are so many who are willing to soak it all up that by now he might even believe his own lies.

The following is a sample of this mans madness:

“This is the Father. Do you understand what we have entered into? I have prayed for nine years that the Father would come and perform His covenant to work with me on earth and to manifest Himself to all the people. I have prayed that sinners and saints alike would see Him like Moses saw Him; like in Jesus’ time on the Mount of Transfiguration.”

 

[jamadan]

So Taylor claims the Father made a new and unique covenant with him that's different than the New Covenant Christ established? And that covenant involves not the Spirit of God, but God the Father, having to leave His Throne in Heaven and come down so everyone can see Him? No wonder he claims he's the new Moses. Okay, so I'm reclassifying him from simple lying profiteer (along the lines of say of a Robert Tilton), to a full blown cult-figure. He's fake in every way, like Tilton, knowingly taking advantage of easily fooled and manipulated disciples, but he's now positioned himself as the new covenant maker, like Moses and Jesus, which is the stuff of cults. The question really is, how much of this is staged versus actual madness. I'd prefer to think it's staged so as not to fear a future covenant fulfillment meeting where his disciples toast the appearance of the Father with koolaid.

As to his believing that Moses' actually 'saw' God, the Father, on the mountain or in the burning bush or in the tent of meeting, as opposed to encountering the Holy Spirit, or that Jesus saw the Father on the Mount of Transfiguration, well, I suppose his lack of education is matched by his disciples, meaning they don't care and would never know the difference. In reading through his website, it appears Taylor has no real understanding of the Holy Spirit or the Trinity.

 

[Alive_Again]

So Taylor claims the Father made a new and unique covenant with him that's different than the New Covenant Christ established?

You're jumping to conclusions.

And that covenant involves not the Spirit of God, but God the Father, having to leave His Throne in Heaven and come down so everyone can see Him?

It's possible that the website info is supplied by his webperson and not David.

Everyone's covenant includes God the Father. In fact, both He and Jesus make their abode with us (with the Holy Spirit). According to Kat Kerr (whom you readily trod on), the Father is not glued to the main Throne Room. Also there are different throne rooms. She says that He has appeared on the earth (unseen, except in the Spirit) on a throne at various times to observe and to hear prayer. In fact, as He is a God who can be everywhere at the same time, this should not be too hard to accomplish.

No wonder he claims he's the new Moses.

This sounds pretty unlikely. Where did you come with this? Someone's "run through the mud website?" Those are usually hot items to those who rejoice in such things. It reminds me of a dog that follows the backside of another dog waiting... These types of websites should be avoided.

Okay, so I'm reclassifying him from simple lying profiteer (along the lines of say of a Robert Tilton), to a full blown cult-figure. He's fake in every way, like Tilton, knowingly taking advantage of easily fooled and manipulated disciples, but he's now positioned himself as the new covenant maker, like Moses and Jesus, which is the stuff of cults.

Pick up a piece, roll it around! Smell the aroma! You really are blind to what it is?

Every last judgment you have made has not only been imputed, you have become that very judgment. Do you not fear? You continue to describe facets of that incarnation. Why don't you do yourself a huge favor and rescind your poisonous and sinful judgments! We are supposed to hate sin. Why continue to flaunt it? You would do well not to insult God's family and repent of those unworthy judgments.

...I suppose his lack of education is matched by his disciples, meaning they don't care and would never know the difference. In reading through his website, it appears Taylor has no real understanding of the Holy Spirit or the Trinity.

You know a number of people stopped following the Lord when He spoke of eating His flesh. He didn't offer an explanation. You have to hear with the heart to get the understanding in your spirit that eludes your natural mind. You see people as deluded and easily deceived. The Pharisees felt the same way about Jesus' followers. I'm sure they criticized Jesus' knowledge of the scripture. I'm sure it created quite a buzz to know that Jesus said that the temple would be destroyed and he would raise it up in 3 days! They gathered around and agreed that He was insane and a self-appointed Messiah. If they had websites, I'm sure that earlier weblink provided would have ran after that knowledge and "exposed" it.

I suppose that I am glad that the book has a few things in it that are hard to understand (on the surface) (outside of the context). It is below the surface that real understanding is found. Anyway, it keeps out certain people who choose to be unworthy of the blessing it might entail.

Ok, so you've made your opinion known and you've cast your judgment on the individual instead of the revelation. Why not then leave this thread to the ones who would consider what Jesus said in it. Leave it to those who would with an honest and good heart inquire prayerfully as they read the book? If you actually read the book you'd know that everything that is said is about being a radical follower with the reward of knowing Jesus in a greater way. He'll actually respond to your quest for more of Him.

Stop warding of those who otherwise be blessed, since you yourself refuse to go in. Do not impede others in their enrichment. You should still employ the same discernment as you would reading any other book (Let's not confuse judgment against the body as that kind of judgment.). There's no need to fear other spirits because Jesus already gave us instruction and we judge by the fruits. No need to erect any fences around the blessing. The Shepherd is already there.

 

[Alive_Again]

Incidentally, Kat Kerr said that when the Lord first told her about going to Heaven, He appeared right through the kitchen wall. We know He is also at the right hand of the Father, all while making the rounds in Heaven. However you might decide to "slice it", Jesus can appear to you here on earth, and it is just as real as anyone else coming to you.

Instead of the body eating each other up, why not just examine what is said and comment on that with the scripture. No one here fully understands the Word anyway, and if people keep saying things like "period!" "End of story!" -- growth in understanding will stop right there. It indicates an unteachableness that has pride attached to it.

 

[jamadan]

I suggest that you do your own homework and read his website for yourself. All of that information is there. What you're dealing with is spiritual warfare. You need to tear down the strongholds in your mind that have you inexplicitly defending and apologizing forvthese deceptive false prophets which have exalted themselves against the true knowledge of God. Until you repent, you will remain in the bondage of deceiving spirits squandering God's call on your life.

 

[Alive_Again]

That is the utter ridiculousness of what you have been and are saying...

I have surely known the leading of the Holy Spirit in ALL of these people you've been putting down. I've been greatly edified and the voice of a stranger I will not follow.

 

[Biblicist]

I have surely known the leading of the Holy Spirit in ALL of these people you've been putting down. I've been greatly edified and the voice of a stranger I will not follow.

Yep…I know what you mean! When it comes to the likes of Kerr and Taylor I would have to say that their ramblings are indeed strange, to the point where I am confident with saying that their ‘teachings’ are more aligned with the gnostic and mystery religions.

 

[Life Warrior]

May I suggest for all those part of this discussion to meditate (think upon prayerfully, not eastern meditation) on John chapter 14. The line which David picks out to use is 18b "I will come to you." -Jesus speaking.

I have been reading that verse in context of the passage, and am starting to come to an understanding. If some of you could do that as well, then post your thoughts, it would be good to hear.