Harry Potter

[woobadooba]

In this secular world we live in give me an example of one good recreation our kids can do without subjecting themselves to one form of evil or another. If we were to lock them up in a round rubber room and just throw biblical literature in with them, I assure you they'd turn out much worse than if they read a HP book. If we were to take out all evil(impossible) influence than we most assuredly could not work out our salvation with fear and trembling. There are worse things to keep our kids away from in this world, and as Christian parents we must give and take the good with the bad. I'll be worried if my kids start hanging up Marilyn Manson posters.Thanks for your worries, but they are truly unfounded.
canadiancatholic

We can be tempted to do wrong wherever we go in this world. The key however, is to not subject ourselves to things that will influence us to think in a worldly way.

This is why Paul said, "Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things." Phil. 4:8

Paul meant for this passage to be a guide for us, to safeguard ourselves from things that are impure. And HP obviously does not fall into this category, so why would you subject yourself to it, or encourage children to read these books when such stories are not what Paul describes as being "true", "noble", "right", "pure", "lovely", "admirable", and "praiseworthy"?

Now you can argue that HP is all of these things, and you probably will, but that will only go to show those of us who know better that you are going through the process described in post #26.

In fact, I am utterly convinced that if God were to raise up a prophet today who thus spoke against such things, you would probably tell him that he is off his rocker, and needs to relax more. In other words, you wouldn't accept his message.

Right before Jesus returns the message of salvation will go out to all the world like never before. The world will be in a moral crisis far worse than it is today. By then people (this includes Christians) will be so morally desensitised by the media, that they will laugh at those who preach the truth. In fact, they will even persecute them.

All of these things: HP, D&D, violent video games, PG-13 movies which really ought to be rated R, etc..., are paving the way for a moral decline that will bring the lives of many people to ruins.

"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." 2Tim. 4:3

Satan is more clever than you think he is. His tactics are much more subtle than you think they are. This is why the Bible says, "And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light." 2Cor. 11:14

And from what you said above, it is evident that you are falling right into his snare.

Get out of it while you can!

 

[DarkCloud]

There is no need to insult me with the 'strawman' retorts.

Are you a Christian? If so, act like one. If not, you shouldn't be posting in here.

Well, you did rephrase my post and distorted it, thereby commiting strawman. Not an insult, just a fact.

Yes I'm Christian.

Now then, the scriptures are too advanced for children?

That's odd, because when Paul addressed Timothy he said,

"and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus." 2Tim. 3:15

The word 'infancy' here suggests a very young age. Thus when Timothy was at an age wherein he could understand human language, his journey to God began as he was given instruction from the Holy Scriptures.

So if he was able to understand what is written in the word of God, why do you feel that this isn't possible today, that the Bible is too advanced for children?

Because it uses words that are probably not in the average 2nd grader's vocabulary. It is written with metephors and requires some historical context.

By the way, a well versed teacher would be able to disclose the meaning behind those so-called advanced passages. And he could do this in a way that even little children could understand what they mean.

You make this assumption, without proving it. Nevertheless, I was just reading to kids, I don't claim to be a minister or anything.

More insults? Yes, I can read. In fact, if you go back to my post you will see that I edited it before you posted your response to it.

Sorry, but I posted two big quotes you "did not see," so it was frustrating because I got the feeling you weren't really reading my posts, but just skimming them for things to attack.

In other words, do you believe that just because some good can be found in something, or that some good might result from something that really isn't good, that the source from which it came is therefore good simply because something good came out of it?

Well the problem here is that I don't think HP "really isn't good". So from my perspective your question doesn't make sense. I don't see how any reasonable person could use HP to become a devil worshipper. If such a person existed, I would think they were a time bomb waiting to go off and almost anything would turn them to devil worship.

I already explained this to you.

No you didn't. You failed to prove that a Ouiji board "is a pathway into the realm of demons." anymore than a candy bar is. I asked you to *explain* the physics of why a Ouiji board has magical properties that a candy bar doesn't. Oh and an example about your friend is not proof. It simply makes no sense that a piece of cardboard raises demons but a candy bar cannot.

 

[AutumnAnne]

Because nobody asks a candy bar to answer questions-and contact spirits! If they did- the candy bar would be in the same boat.

Am I crazy?

 

[NeoScribe]

Tell us exactly why HP is so evil. Give us examples to review. Why boycott HP and not books the schools make us read. They have no moral value and were not written by Christians and seem bent on convincing us the world is a rotten pool of death.

 

[PaladinValer]

Neither, because "No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it." 1Cor. 10:13

Sorry, but you are not correct.

You are forced to either take a life or commit suicide. If you do nothing, the other's life is forfeit.

What is your choice? Which evil shall you choose?

I hate to say this, but you are not realistic here.

Therefore, we ought to choose God.

What would God then do in that situation?

Read post #26. You will see what I'm really saying there, I hope.

The post is flawed and utterly defeated by my above.

Is that so? Perhaps you can show me in the Bible where any one of the Bible authors demarcates the difference, and thus condemns one, but permits the other.

It is implicit. All what was considered magic back then always had to do with religious service and devotion. The idea of magic that had nothing to do with religion is a foreign concept that was beyond their imagination.

My evidence is historical sociology, which is undefeatable and irrefutable, try as anyone might.

The Pro-Potters win hands down again.

 

[woobadooba]

At this point I feel that I've said what God willed for me to say. I'm no prophet, but I am one who is experienced, and aware of what is really happening through the media.

People will either accept what has been said, or they will reject it. But there is no sense in arguing about it. I can only warn people of the impending danger that lies ahead of the path that they've chosen to tread, but I can't convince them to take another course.

With that said, I just hope that we will be ready to receive Christ when He comes, and that our fate will not be that which is described in Matt. 7:21.

 

[AutumnAnne]

Amen

 

[PaladinValer]

At this point I feel that I've said what God willed for me to say. I'm no prophet, but I am one who is experienced, and aware of what is really happening through the media.

People will either accept what has been said, or they will reject it. But there is no sense in arguing about it. I can only warn people of the impending danger that lies ahead of the path that they've chosen to tread, but I can't convince them to take another course.

With that said, I just hope that we will be ready to receive Christ when He comes, and that our fate will not be that which is described in Matt. 7:21.

In other words, you would do nothing and the life is forfeit?

 

[NeoScribe]

I am confused! I should stop reading everything altogether!

 

[Loukuss]

They teach good Christian values like...nationalism.

Christian value?

And I suppose Ouji boards lead to the occult to.

Actually, they do.

The whole thing with the occult and voodoo magic is just there because it makes good media coverage, but it doesn't actually go on.

You are obviously quite uneducated in this field. You really shouldnt talk about things you know little about.

Also the devil has bigger fish to fry than our kids.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!!? Our children are exactly who the devil goes after. He wants to corrupt them while they are young, before they come to know Jesus Christ. DarkCloud, you are very wrong.

He caused a war in Iraq for instance in which REAL people are dying and REAL people are getting their legs blown off.

Ephesians 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

Our war against Satan is a spiritual war. Not everything is in the physicaly realm.

Educated yourself before you jump the gun.

Shalom,

Lucas

 

[PaladinValer]

Ouji boards?

**waggles his fingers**

Pretty much a hoax.

 

[woobadooba]

Ouji boards?

**waggles his fingers**

Pretty much a hoax.

It's an attitude like this one that does not reflect a teachable spirit, or promote a discussion that is worthy of engaging.

 

[Mandrake]

*whistles in the background as the obvious biblical connections are ignored*

 

[Motherof3]

What moral lessons can HP bring out that the Bible can't inculcate in a better way?

I agree w/you that the Bible does have the better moral lessons; however, I don't believe that b/c my son reads the HP series means that he's going to have imaginings of becoming a wizard. He knows that Jesus is the #1 priority in his life.

You talk about breaking rules & that HP is rewarded for that. I remember in one of the books that he breaks a rule & the teacher punishes him & he is not allowed to play in the Quidditch match for the rest of the year in the 5th book. In the 1st book, he, Hermione & Ron break the rules by going out on the campus at night. A classmate tells on them & then the teacher gives them detention for breaking the rules. My question to you is this -- what teenager DOES NOT break the rules at some point in their teenagehood? There are cases in these books where someone is going to die & HP has to break a rule in order to save him. I remember when Jesus broke the rules in order to heal a man.

IMO, the books do not PROMOTE wizardy & witchcraft. They PROMOTE loyalty, friendship, love & trust. THis theme is promonate in the books. The whole reason HP gets saved in the 1st book is b/c of love. When Professor Quirrell touches Harry, he burns up. Harry asks why this happened? Professor Dumbledore tells Harry that Quirrell did not have love inside of him. That HP did. It was the love inside of his parents that helped him that day. HP's mother & father died b/c they tried to protect their son from evil. This is the whole reason why Harry is alive to begin with.

There's more but I just found out company's here so I'll post more later.

 

[Borealis]

What moral lessons can HP bring out that the Bible can't inculcate in a better way?

The Bible is not written in a kid-friendly way. And as someone else pointed out, there are quite a few passages in the Bible that wouldn't pass a censor today. My son reads the Bible; he has a children's version, and of course we get three or four Bible passages every time we go to Mass. I'd like him to read other things; it's a useful skill, despite what some people seem to think.

Truth is, even R rated movies can bring out moral lessons. So does this mean the means that are used to accomplish this are thereby justified in God's eyes? You seem to believe so.

Do yourself a favour, and don't tell me what I do or don't believe. I don't watch R-rated movies, nor do I find them morally interesting. My decisions are just that, MY decisions. You are sticking your nose where it does not belong. Kindly stop.

But he already has you believing that something that represents evil is good.

No, he doesn't, because Harry Potter doesn't represent evil. My view of morality is not based on the narrow-minded vision of evangelical Christianity, a movement which doesn't have any Apostolic backing nor any moral authority for any Catholic today.

You are going through the process described in post #26

I didn't read post 26, nor have I any interest or inclination to do so, for the simple reason that I find your manner of preaching down at those of us who don't share your moral vision offensive and off-putting.

 

[D'Ann]

MOD HAT "ON"

PLEASE REFRAIN FROM PERSONAL COMMENTS TO EACH OTHER. POST COMMENTS TO THE CONTEXT THAT HAS BEEN POSTED, NOT THE POSTER. PLEASE PROMOTE A PEACEFUL DIAGOLOGUE THAT ALL CAN LEARN AND BENEFIT FROM. OTHERWISE THIS THREAD WILL BE CLOSED.

MOD HAT "OFF"

 

[tulc]

Do you believe the end justifies the means?

I'm a little confused why you keep asking this.
tulc(it doesn't seem to be connected to what you're posting)

 

[Your Neighbor]

http://harrypottermagic.org/

 

[tulc]

It's an attitude like this one that does not reflect a teachable spirit, or promote a discussion that is worthy of engaging.

Because he doesn't agree with you, he isn't teachable?
tulc(a little confused)

 

[woobadooba]

Do yourself a favour, and don't tell me what I do or don't believe. I don't watch R-rated movies, nor do I find them morally interesting. My decisions are just that, MY decisions. You are sticking your nose where it does not belong. Kindly stop.

You misunderstood what I said. I never said you watch R rated movies.

You used an argument that suggested that because HP brings out some so-called good attributes, that it is good, and thus harmless.

I used the R rated argument to try to open your eyes to what your argument is really suggesting. In other words, anything can be justified according to your logic as long as it produces something good. Thus the end justifies the means. Therefore, if a movie, even though it is rated R, emphasises some aspect that is good, then it must be good itself. This, of course, is wrong.

In fact, the Bible espouses the view that the means must justify themselves on moral issues, in which case HP doesn't, because for the means to justify themselves as such, they can only do so to the glory of God. Does HP glorify God? Obviously not.

My challenge to you however, since you seem to feel that the end does justify the means, is to identify the real end of HP. I tried to draw your attention to post #26 wherein I have done this already, but you don't seem to be interested in what I have to say.

I didn't read post 26, nor have I any interest or inclination to do so, for the simple reason that I find your manner of preaching down at those of us who don't share your moral vision offensive and off-putting.

This comment coupled with your misunderstanding of what I had said to you suggests to me that you really aren't interested in anything that I have to say unless it agrees with what you believe.