Tell me about my sitautional ethics and I will study your case and consult my uncle. who is a extremely devout Christian and has banned his kids from HP.
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NeoScribe said:
It's not an issue of looking for demons, but of recognising, or discerning their presence. There is a difference.
And as for teaching your children right from wrong, how can you do that if you don't even know what is or isn't really in the right?
Situational ethics, and moral relativism robs you of the ability to render such moral discernment. And HP is replete with both of these worldviews.
And one must wonder why...
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I don't think Harry Potter is evil because there is one very effective way of removing its influences. That is by emphasizing that it is indeed just fiction and that truth is in the bible.
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PearlOfGreatPrice
Active Member
Daughter of His said:
Actually I would argue differently.
My kids read HP.
My kids dont need to be told HP is fiction/fantasy. Thats because they are balanced, intelligent and being raised by parents who are not given to hysterical rantings against fiction/fantasy. My kids go to church, wont go to sleep until a passage of the bible has been read to them, would not even think about 'casting a spell' but do love to say grace at the dinner table in the evening.
They would see straight through the sort of hypocrisy that says they can read The Narnia Chronicles, The Lord of the Rings etc (because they were written by Christians) but forbids them from reading other fantasy fiction because the author is not considered Christian.
We had this debate at the Christian writers forum I am a member of. It ran and it ran...
Blessings
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It ran and it ran and thats going to happen here.
Raise your hands if anything posted here is going to convince you to change your view of Harry Potter.
No ones explaned to me what sitational ethics are yet and hasnt convinced me that I have it. Them. I dunno.
Raise your hands if anything posted here is going to convince you to change your view of Harry Potter.
No ones explaned to me what sitational ethics are yet and hasnt convinced me that I have it. Them. I dunno.
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NeoScribe said:
What more do I need to disclose to you other than the idea that you are declaring something that promotes witchcraft (something that the Bible opposes) to be good simply because it brings out a few commendable traits. Hence, the end justifies the means.
Yet, you don't see anything wrong with this because you have been subjugated by the tenets of moral relativism, which inculcates the idea that there really is no definite right or wrong, because the end always justifies the means.
And by the way, it's not an issue of turning someone into a frog. We all know that is nonsense. But the issue is much deeper than that. You see, that is the genius of the devil; he takes something that is extremely harmful, and candy-coats it with humor and sensationalism for the purpose of drawing you deeper into the realm of his deception, which is to get you to come to a point wherein you will no longer agree that the means must justify themselves, but that the end justifies the means. And this is exactly what HP, among other things, does.
Friend, it is important to understand that for every book that has been written or ever will be, and for every movie that has been produced, or will be, there is a worldview behind each one. And the devil knows that he has to entice you with those things that are appealing to your thirst for pleasure, to infiltrate your mind with the more subtle things that you would otherwise not find to be so appealing in your current frame of mind if they were blatantly disclosed before you in their full magnitude.
In short, you are treading on dangerous ground, and you don't even realise this because you can't see the harm in it. And this is exactly what the devil wants. That is, he wants people, especially Christians, to call that which is good evil, and that which is evil good. And this is exactly what is happening here in this thread.
But one has to go through a process before this happens...
And the more exposure you have to this process the deeper you will delve into the devil's snare. Eventually you will begin to look at things that you once considered to be appalling, and all of a sudden they won't appear to be so bad anymore. For example, you'll watch a movie knowing that there will be foul language in it, and sexual content, among other immoral things, and you'll say to yourself, "well, it's PG-13, so it isn't that bad, and as long as the story is good that will make up for the bad elements that are found in it." Interestingly, that which is now PG-13 would have been rated R a few years ago! Can't you see what's happening? This transition speaks volumes! In fact, after a while of finding reasons to justify these things, you will find yourself watching R rated movies, and looking for reasons to justify that too. But eventually, you won't even look for reasons to justify these things anymore, because there will come a point in time when you just won't care.
You see, the devil's plot is to desensitize people, especially Christians, to what is and isn't morally acceptable. Even cartoons are replete with all kinds of violence, and look at the video game industry! He is going after children, teenagers, and young adults, because he knows that they are the future.
And once you have been desensitised in this way, the decisions that you make in life will not reflect the character of Christ, but the negative character of those things that you exposed yourself to for such a long period of time through the media. Hence, you will be reflecting the character of Satan. And the sad thing about it all is that you won't even realise it. And when people try to open your eyes to the reality of your condition, you will verbally persecute them for it. Hence, this is the process! This is the end that Satan desires to achieve with all of God's children.
"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." 2Tim. 4:3-5
What will it take for people to open their eyes and see what is happening?
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I think I have a very sound sense of right and wrong. I never said I supported Harrys ways or his acts, all I said was... Ah, man... I dont even know what I said that got you ticked! Harry does bad stuff, yeah I know, but who hasnt? He uses a wand instead of a calculator. I am not saying sin is good. I'm saying that we've all sinned were not perfect.
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NeoScribe said:
Friend, I'm not ticked. I'm just concerned. Please reflect on my post a little more. Pray about it if you will.
Thanks.
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Motherof3
Active Member
The 'ole HP is evil thread again. My son has read every book (me too-waiting on him to finish the 6th one) & seen every movie. He knows who his God is & has confessed Jesus as His risen Savior. He was just confirmed in our church. He happens to like Science Fiction/Mysteries/Horrors/Comedies books & movies. Has this gotten him on a path of wondering what it would be like to have these "powers" that Harry has? Definitely not. He recognizes the books/movies for what they are -- a fiction story of good vs. evil.
He also watched "The Passion of the Christ" & absolutely loved it. The ULTIMATE story of good vs. evil.
He also watched "The Passion of the Christ" & absolutely loved it. The ULTIMATE story of good vs. evil.
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canadiancatholic
Regular Member
In this secular world we live in give me an example of one good recreation our kids can do without subjecting themselves to one form of evil or another. If we were to lock them up in a round rubber room and just throw biblical literature in with them, I assure you they'd turn out much worse than if they read a HP book. If we were to take out all evil(impossible) influence than we most assuredly could not work out our salvation with fear and trembling. There are worse things to keep our kids away from in this world, and as Christian parents we must give and take the good with the bad. I'll be worried if my kids start hanging up Marilyn Manson posters.Thanks for your worries, but they are truly unfounded.
canadiancatholic
canadiancatholic
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Gwenyfur
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woobadooba said:
As a former witch, I can tell you that the dime store toys are us ouija boards are no more a gateway than that candy bar!
First of all it's missing several vital things to make it a portal to teh dark realm..
1- fresh willful blood offering (flesh)
2- rosemary, thyme and jasmine (earth)
3- flame -preferrably red or black natural beeswax candle (fire)
4- open window with a *FULL* moon shining on the board. (wind)
those ALL must be in place for the portal to work...
Now get over the fairy tales...puhlease!
not to mention the board is to be made of natural wood (not cardboard or wood fibers) and the lettering burned into the board while saying incantations...
the scry must be of pure crystal, surrounded by sacrificed bone...
don't think they sell those as the store!
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Oh. "Dimestore" Ouija boards were banned for sale to kids in the UK many years ago, because of the repeated terrifying and damaging experiences children were having with them. I myself have seen these things "working". So it doesn't need all the munbo jumbo of blood, incantations, etc. to make them a danger.Gwenyfur said:
As for HP. This, along with TV programmes like "Charmed" "Sabrina" etc. DO affect many people and lead them to believe that witchcraft can be "good", exciting and life-enhancing.
Because they don't effect everybody the same way, doesn't mean they are harmless. Children in parrticular need to be warned of the real dangers that lie in the activities and realms these products open up.
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PaladinValer
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woobadooba said:
Depends.
Let me ask you three things:
When faced with two evils, what do you choose?
and
Why are you still seemingly trying to equivocate fictional magic with real magic?
and
Why are you still seemingly trying to equivocate cult magic and "formulaeic" magic? I ask this because only the former is condemned, not the latter per se.
Counter my argument, please.
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Mandrake
Brother Cattle Prod of Reasoned Discussion
I'm a student in religious studies, and took a course last year on the bible in modern culture, focusing on it's use in film. In the term paper I did for that class I wrote on Christus Victor style atonement in three movies: The Matrix, Constantine, and Harry Potter. If you can't see the biblical influences then you're blind.
The Order of the Phoenix (Followers of the thing that rises from death) are engaged in a drawn out struggle to defend the world from a being of ultimate evil symbolized by a snake. One of their foremost members was killed when he was betrayed by a close friend, but his son (and this is what I argued in my paper) is granted a special power by this death which allows him to oversome death and defeat evil.
If you weren't so busy being caught up in reactionary fervor and took the time to sit down and think then maybe you'd come up with more than "Herry Potter is teh evil because it's witchcraft!!11!!" and see what's really going on.
The Order of the Phoenix (Followers of the thing that rises from death) are engaged in a drawn out struggle to defend the world from a being of ultimate evil symbolized by a snake. One of their foremost members was killed when he was betrayed by a close friend, but his son (and this is what I argued in my paper) is granted a special power by this death which allows him to oversome death and defeat evil.
If you weren't so busy being caught up in reactionary fervor and took the time to sit down and think then maybe you'd come up with more than "Herry Potter is teh evil because it's witchcraft!!11!!" and see what's really going on.
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Borealis
Catholic Homeschool Dad
No book is harmless if you let it harm you. If you're a Christian parent, then teach your children right from wrong. That's your responsibility, no matter what they're reading. My son reads Harry Potter, and he has no interest in the occult or learning 'magic.' He's also interested in fantasy RPGs such as Dungeons and Dragons, because of the good lessons you can learn from them. I've been playing for over twenty years, because the game (and it's just that, a game) promotes teamwork, problem solving, cooperation, and critical thinking skills, things that are sorely lacking in public education these days. I've played a wide range of characters, all of them heroic in nature; I don't play anti-heroes or evil characters, with paladins being my class of choice.Daughter of His said:
Anyone who tells me that I'm going to hell or that I'm going to be demon-possessed for playing D&D will be summarily laughed at, and deservedly so. If playing D&D could grant magical powers, I wouldn't be living in a small apartment and working a low-paying job. After this many years, I should at least have a house and a million-dollar bank account.
Harry Potter is harmless. It encourages children to read, something schools are notoriously letting slide, it teaches them the value of friendship and the importance of moral choices, another thing schools have forgotten about, and it engages their imaginations, which some schools (not to mention a lot of Christians) seem to want to ban outright.
If Satan wants to get hold of me, he's got other ways to do it; D&D and Harry Potter aren't going to get him what he wants.
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AutumnAnne
I don't want to be a weed.....Matthew 13:24-30
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I was convicted about Harry Potter recently. Not for the same reasons, though-but because the Bible tells us to not have anything to do with occult type things. It was hard for me, because they are the most fun-to-read books ever... but I've stopped. And the Lord has Blessed me because of it.Mind_Over_Matter said:
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PaladinValer said:
Neither, because "No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it." 1Cor. 10:13
Therefore, we ought to choose God.
Read post #26. You will see what I'm really saying there, I hope.
Is that so? Perhaps you can show me in the Bible where any one of the Bible authors demarcates the difference, and thus condemns one, but permits the other.
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Gwenyfur said:
I don't know why you keep telling us that you were a witch. It's as if you are proud of this or something.
Also, I had a genuine experience with demons through the Ouija board. If you want to deny this, then that is your right. But your denial of the experience that I had will never change what really happened to me, and those who were with me when it happened.
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Borealis said:
What moral lessons can HP bring out that the Bible can't inculcate in a better way?
Truth is, even R rated movies can bring out moral lessons. So does this mean the means that are used to accomplish this are thereby justified in God's eyes? You seem to believe so.
But he already has you believing that something that represents evil is good.
You are going through the process described in post #26
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