Harmony or Conflict?

[2Timothy2:15]

I don't disagree... but there is a difference between having a standard and enforcing that standard on others... that is legalism. And I would add this... do you have exactly the same understanding today that you had 5 years ago, or have you grown? Do you expect to exactly where you are now in terms of understanding in 5 years, or do you expect to grow more? The answers, I believe, are obvious... and the connection that should be made from this is that we can have a standard but shouldn't become legalistic and dogmatic about it. Because... we aren't even where we will be!

Not allowing unrepentant homosexuals to fellowship is "legalism"? I think it is sound doctrine and sound practice to protect the flock.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

But what really bothers me isn't the homosexuals. They are merely yielding to temptation. What really bothers me are church leaders who know homosexuality is a sin but give their blessing, motivated apparently by self-aggrandizement.

As well it should, it is a clear indication of compromised leadership. I would not be entirely surprised to find out these homosexuals were heavy "tithers".

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Well the council in Jerusalem said new converts didn't need to be circumcised. You think they and all later Christians opposed Jesus too?

Hmm Paul said it is ok to eat meet sacrificed to idols?

But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Healthy people don’t need a doctor. Sick people do.

And if they don't take their medicine and listen to the doctor they remain sick and there is no point for them to remain in the hospital is there...

 

[2Timothy2:15]

But when a pastor is leading a congregation astray, I think it is best to speak up.

Yes you should speak up. But I will say this, get ready for a battle, a spiritual battle. The Lord will reward you in the end for standing up for truth. You may lose friends and other things, but Jesus said, count the cost.

 

[Danielwright2311]

Hmm Paul said it is ok to eat meet sacrificed to idols?

But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

Three times Jesus in the Book of Revelation condemns eating meat sacrificed to idols, even saying this is the doctrine of a false prophet. (Rev. 2:6, 14 (Ephesus); Rev. 2:14-15 (Pergamum); Revelation 2:20 (Thyatira).)

This absolute prescription also was set forth in James' ruling at the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15:20. Then it is repeated when it was put in a letter. (Acts 15:29.) Finally, James reiterates this for a third and final time in Acts chapter 21. James tells Paul that many claim Paul is teaching lawless doctrine -- "apostasia." (Acts 21:21.) So James reminds Paul what was the ruling at the Jerusalem Council. He tells Paul that previously "we wrote giving judgment that they [i.e., the Gentiles] should keep themselves from things sacrificed to idols...." (Acts 21:25.) James asks Paul to reassure everyone Paul believes the Law is still valid by Paul performing the vow from Numbers chapter six. Paul agrees, impliedly leading James to assume Paul never wavered from the principle it is unlawful to eat meat sacrificed to idols.

However, Paul clearly teaches multiple times that there is nothing wrong in itself eating meat sacrificed to idols. (1 Corinthians 8:4-13, and 1 Corinthians 10:19-29. See also Romans 14:21.)

The first time Paul addresses the question of "eating meat sacrificed to idols," Paul answers: "But food will not commend us to God; neither if we eat not...." (1 Cor. 8:8.) Paul then explained it is only necessary to abstain from eating such meat if you are around a "weaker" brother who thinks an idol is something. (1 Cor. 8:7, 8:10, 9:22.) Then, and only then, must you abstain. The reason is that then a brother might be emboldened to do something he thinks is sinful. The brother is "weak," Paul says, for believing eating meat sacrificed to an idol is wrong. This is thus a sin for the "weak" brother to eat, Paul explains, even though you know it is not sinful to eat meat sacrificed to idols. Thus, even though you know better than your weaker brother that it is no sin to eat such meat (1 Cor 10:28-29), it is better to abstain in his presence than cause a "brother" to sin against his weak conscience and become "perished" (lost) / "destroyed." (1 Cor. 8:11.)

 

[2Timothy2:15]

However, Paul clearly teaches multiple times that there is nothing wrong in itself eating meat sacrificed to idols. (1 Corinthians 8:4-13, and 1 Corinthians 10:19-29. See also Romans 14:21.)

It is context, Paul is not condoning eating meat sacrificed to idols which is why I already quoted you the scripture.

 

[Danielwright2311]

It is context, Paul is not condoning eating meat sacrificed to idols which is why I already quoted you the scripture.

I never said he did, but he still contradicts Jesus when he said it is a sin to eat meat sacrificed to idols then Paul changed this to its ok and not a sin unless your with a weaker brother who believes it is a sin.

read it.

 

[Ken Rank]

Not allowing unrepentant homosexuals to fellowship is "legalism"? I think it is sound doctrine and sound practice to protect the flock.

I think you are being ridiculous. I am not talking about something God calls an abomination. You clearly are not interested in intelligent discussion so I am out.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

I think you are being ridiculous. I am not talking about something God calls an abomination. You clearly are not interested in intelligent discussion so I am out.

What? Ok up to you but I just responded to your comment. I guess someone who does not agree with your stance is not intelligent..got it.

 

[Danielwright2311]

It is context, Paul is not condoning eating meat sacrificed to idols which is why I already quoted you the scripture.

There is no reason to go against Jesus words out of context.

There is another point, if Paul writes out of context then we still should not follow it.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I never said he did, but he still contradicts Jesus when he said it is a sin to eat meat sacrificed to idols then Paul changed this to its ok and not a sin unless your with a weaker brother who believes it is a sin.

read it.

Yahweh Says He Hates Divorce. He Also Says anyone who rejects one of His messengers also has rejected Jesus. He Also Says it is a sin to make false claims (about anyone). He Also Says Yahshua (Yahweh's Salvation; Jesus) trained Paul.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Many things

List of 24 Contradictions

• Jesus Says Not To Eat Meat Sacrificed to Idols, But Paul Says It Is Ok


• Jesus Says The Law Continues, But Paul Says No


• Paul Says The Pharisees Followed The Law Rigorously, But Jesus Says They Were Lax About The Law


• Jesus Says Salvation Initiates And Continues By Repentance From Sin and Obedience Besides Faith; Paul Says This is Heresy


• Jesus Tells Apostles To Teach His Commands Given Prior to His Ascension While In The Flesh, But Paul Says Not To Do So



• Paul Says Elders Are Entitled To Pay for 'Preaching & Teaching,' But Jesus Says No


• Jesus Teaches There Are Only 12 Apostles Into Eternity, But Paul Adds Himself To The List As a Thirteenth


• Paul Exhorts Celibacy, But Jesus Clearly Says It is A Choice Not Within Everyone's Power


• Jesus Says There Is One Pastor and Teacher (Himself), But Paul Says There Are Many Pastors and Teachers


• Paul Says God Is The God of the Dead, But Jesus Says God Is Not The God of the Dead


• Paul Says God Does Not Live in Temples Made of Human Hands, But Jesus Says He Does


• Jesus says Nations Of The World Are Under Satan, But Paul Says Its Rulers Are Agents of God


• Jesus Teaches Rapture is Of Evil Ones First, But Paul Teaches The Opposite


• Jesus Says A Call Is Revocable, But Paul Says It Is Irrevocable


• Jesus Says Some Are Righteous, But Paul Says It Is Impossible


• Paul Excludes Eating With Sinners But Christ's Example We Are To Follow, and the Lost Sheep Parable, Is Contrary


• Paul Teaches We Are Eternally Secure, But Jesus Teaches Insecurity to a Sinning Believer


• Paul Teaches In Original Sin But Jesus Contradicts



• Paul Denies Obedience Grants Any Righteousness Unto Life, But Jesus Says It Does


• Jesus Sends The Apostles to Baptize, But Paul Says Jesus Did Not Send Him to Baptize


• Jesus Says the Merciful Receive Mercy, But Paul Says Only Those God Chooses Arbitrarily Will Receive Mercy


• Paul Says Salvation Does Not Depend Upon Exertion, But Jesus Says It Does

• Paul Says He Could Be Justified of The Sin that Never Could be Justified under the Law given Moses (Blasphemy), but Jesus says to the contrary that it is The Unpardonable Sin.

• Paul Says Flesh will not inherit the Kingdom of God, but Jesus in Flesh ascended to heaven, and promises to resurrect our bodies to heaven / New Jerusalem, giving us the same physical resurrection that Jesus had.

So show us where Jesus says not to eat meat sacrificed to idols. And you haven't answered how the Jerusalem counsel disobeyed Law in allowing non circumcision for new converts.

 

[Wordkeeper]

The church has no power over whether they will continue or not. The question is should they be denied the word of God? Why do you think Jesus ate with tax collectors?

Do you have a problem remembering this:

1 Corinthians 5
1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you,and of a kind that is intolerable even among pagans: A man hashis father’s wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have been stricken with grief and removed from your fellowship the man who did this?

 

[Danielwright2311]

Yahweh Says He Hates Divorce. He Also Says anyone who rejects one of His messengers also has rejected Jesus. He Also Says it is a sin to make false claims (about anyone). He Also Says Yahshua (Yahweh's Salvation; Jesus) trained Paul.

Jesus never said he trained Paul, Paul said Jesus did.
I never made any false claims about any body, I spoke the truth
I also hate divorce

So I find it funny how because Paul said these things happened we are to believe it when in deed Paul contradicts Jesus.

I follow only Jesus, no one else, not even Paul.

Jesus saves me from hell not Paul.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Whoever rejects the messengers sent by God, rejects Jesus.

Jesus never said he trained Paul, Paul said Jesus did.
I never made any false claims about any body, I spoke the truth
I also hate divorce

So I find it funny how because Paul said these things happened we are to believe it when in deed Paul contradicts Jesus.

I follow only Jesus, no one else, not even Paul.

Jesus saves me from hell not Paul.

 

[Danielwright2311]

So show us where Jesus says not to eat meat sacrificed to idols. And you haven't answered how the Jerusalem counsel disobeyed Law in allowing non circumcision for new converts.

Three times Jesus in the Book of Revelation condemns eating meat sacrificed to idols, even saying this is the doctrine of a false prophet. (Rev. 2:6, 14 (Ephesus); Rev. 2:14-15 (Pergamum); Revelation 2:20 (Thyatira).)

 

[Wordkeeper]

Hmm Paul said it is ok to eat meet sacrificed to idols?

But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

We have to be careful using this verse to support Paul as teaching meat contaminated by idol offering is not okay for believers. It has a nuance: its not okay for the sake of not shaking the faith of new believers. Paul was generally okay with eating such meat: idols were nothing.

1 Corinthians 8
4Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

7However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. 8But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat.

 

[Danielwright2311]

Whoever rejects the messengers sent by God, rejects Jesus.

I never rejected a messenger from God,

Paul is not a messenger from God.

A messenger is Jesus his son who dies on the cross then rose three days latter.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You sealed your own judgment.

I never rejected a messenger from God,

Paul is not a messenger from God.

A messenger is Jesus his son who dies on the cross then rose three days latter.[/QUOTE