LDS Handshake Test (D&C 129)

[BigDaddy4]

Once again, you're trying to make a spectacle of things people hold sacred.

Pretty sure Jesus told folks not to.

Scriptural reference for the bolded?

Pretty sure Jesus didn't require a handshake test, let alone a "sacred" one.

 

[Peter1000]

Do it on a Heavenly Mom thread. Lets get back to D&C 129

There is really nothing more to discuss. We believe there is a Heavenly Mother and so do other very knowledgeable Christians.

So back to the OP.

 

[Peter1000]

Scriptural reference for the bolded?

Pretty sure Jesus didn't require a handshake test, let alone a "sacred" one.

I'm pretty sure if you had an angel that was sent from the presence of the Lord to give you a message, it would be a fairly sacred event for you. You may or may not want to reveal that to other people.

I would want to tell people about that kind of an experience, unless the angel instructed me to be silent.

But the test is a good one. How do you know that the angel is not a devil, masquerading as an angel of light? I would want to know that, and I would remember the test and put out my hand.

What is the big deal other than it was JS that said to test the angel?

 

[mmksparbud]

I'm pretty sure if you had an angel that was sent from the presence of the Lord to give you a message, it would be a fairly sacred event for you. You may or may not want to reveal that to other people.

I would want to tell people about that kind of an experience, unless the angel instructed me to be silent.

But the test is a good one. How do you know that the angel is not a devil, masquerading as an angel of light? I would want to know that, and I would remember the test and put out my hand.

What is the big deal other than it was JS that said to test the angel?

God laid down in His scriptures the tests. "To the law and to the testimony"--you know that verse. What they say must come true. If Jesus had set up this test---He would have mentioned it. If any prophet of the OT had known of this test---they would have mentioned it and used it themselves. Again--why would God had hidden this from anyone. Demon possession is mentioned several times in the NT---surely Jesus would have told everyone about this in order to avoid the problem in the first place. Sacredness always involves God---not an angel. Angels do not make anything sacred---God does. There are several instances of angels appearing to men throughout both the NT and the OT---not once did anyone decide to make statues of any of them much less place them on top of any building, nor did the make the area where they saw these angels sacred. God is the one that is sacred and holy---angels are His messengers and are not to be made objects of adoration and praise. Gabriel is the one mentioned most often---yet nothing is stated about making a statue to him and no one ever shaked his hand. You do not want to make contact with any angel----either of God--and esp. not of a fallen one!!

 

[BigDaddy4]

I'm pretty sure if you had an angel that was sent from the presence of the Lord to give you a message, it would be a fairly sacred event for you. You may or may not want to reveal that to other people.

I would want to tell people about that kind of an experience, unless the angel instructed me to be silent.

But the test is a good one. How do you know that the angel is not a devil, masquerading as an angel of light? I would want to know that, and I would remember the test and put out my hand.

What is the big deal other than it was JS that said to test the angel?

Dismiss it all you want, but it is a false test brought about by your false prophet. There are several angel encounters in the Bible. None of them needed a secret handshake to identify the angel and non of them thought it sacred enough to keep it secret. Daniel, Zacharias, Mary, Peter, etc.

 

[Peter1000]

God laid down in His scriptures the tests. "To the law and to the testimony"--you know that verse. What they say must come true. If Jesus had set up this test---He would have mentioned it. If any prophet of the OT had known of this test---they would have mentioned it and used it themselves. Again--why would God had hidden this from anyone. Demon possession is mentioned several times in the NT---surely Jesus would have told everyone about this in order to avoid the problem in the first place. Sacredness always involves God---not an angel. Angels do not make anything sacred---God does. There are several instances of angels appearing to men throughout both the NT and the OT---not once did anyone decide to make statues of any of them much less place them on top of any building, nor did the make the area where they saw these angels sacred. God is the one that is sacred and holy---angels are His messengers and are not to be made objects of adoration and praise. Gabriel is the one mentioned most often---yet nothing is stated about making a statue to him and no one ever shaked his hand. You do not want to make contact with any angel----either of God--and esp. not of a fallen one!!

I guarantee you that if you had the visitation of an angel coming from the presence of God, with a message from God, you would come away from that visit as if God had just spoken to you. It would be forever a sacred moment for you. Even as bold and straight-forward and no-nonsense as you are, an angel from the presence of the Lord would melt you like butter in an oven.

Forget the test, if you believe fine, if not fine. It is a little thing.

 

[Peter1000]

Dismiss it all you want, but it is a false test brought about by your false prophet. There are several angel encounters in the Bible. None of them needed a secret handshake to identify the angel and non of them thought it sacred enough to keep it secret. Daniel, Zacharias, Mary, Peter, etc.

Fine, it is a little thing.

 

[mmksparbud]

I guarantee you that if you had the visitation of an angel coming from the presence of God, with a message from God, you would come away from that visit as if God had just spoken to you. It would be forever a sacred moment for you. Even as bold and straight-forward and no-nonsense as you are, an angel from the presence of the Lord would melt you like butter in an oven.

Forget the test, if you believe fine, if not fine. It is a little thing.

Most of those encountering an angel fell on their faces! They are awesome when not veiled. I'm not saying you would not be forever impressed and awestruck---that does not address the issue of no one ever made statues of them to place on their buildings and certainly there is no mention of shaking their hand---most would be too terrified to try to touch one, much less shake their hand. Every angel flatly refused to be bowed down to or worshipped in any way. Yet no one in their right mind would consider shaking the hand of such an awesome being. JS has a weird way of being very "familiar" with what is holy yet calls it sacred at the same time. He said he would shake the hand of God instead of standing in awe of Him---Seriously? When he sees the real God of the universe---the last thing on his mind will be to shake His hand!! He sure loved to elevate himself.

 

[Peter1000]

Most of those encountering an angel fell on their faces! They are awesome when not veiled. I'm not saying you would not be forever impressed and awestruck---that does not address the issue of no one ever made statues of them to place on their buildings and certainly there is no mention of shaking their hand---most would be too terrified to try to touch one, much less shake their hand. Every angel flatly refused to be bowed down to or worshipped in any way. Yet no one in their right mind would consider shaking the hand of such an awesome being. JS has a weird way of being very "familiar" with what is holy yet calls it sacred at the same time. He said he would shake the hand of God instead of standing in awe of Him---Seriously? When he sees the real God of the universe---the last thing on his mind will be to shake His hand!! He sure loved to elevate himself.

Fine, then don't try to shake an angels hand.

 

[ViaCrucis]

and so do other very knowledgeable Christians.

Excusez-moi?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Ronald]

Doctrine and Covenants 129 states:




QUESTIONS:

[1] Has this test been used or is this test being currently used by Latter Day Saints ???? Cite some examples.

[2] If it has not been used and is not used why would God give this revelation to Joseph Smith ???

NOTE: In past discussions of this my questions have not been answered.

I've shaken hands with lots of people. It is our custom, a simple greeting, hello, how ya doin, my name is Ron, etc. I've never shaken the hands with an angel that I am aware of. Once I thought I met a demon and felt that after shaking his hand. It turned out he was a ruthless sales associate that was out for himself and no one liked him in the company. I ended up having him as my boss for a time - oh boy. Just a lost selfish soul is all, functional alcoholic, manipulative ...
I've had witnesses greet me with a message of Christ. Christians claiming they had a word for me, but this test you are talking about sounds like another fabrication of Joseph Smith.
Mormons are exemplary people. I had a roommate who was a Mormon and she sent young, green missionaries to witness to me to no avail. I've had elderly Mormons do the same. Something always sounded off - like this does. Years later, I had a real divine appointment. God orchestrated people and events that led to my salvation and fortunately it had nothing to do with the Mormons or JW's, but born again Christians, spirit filled.
I believe the saving grace of a Mormon is that he/she reads the Bible. This is the Word of God - ONLY. Faith comes by the Word and any transformation of a soul comes from this true source. So you can read thousands of other claimed spiritual books that may seem enlightening. They may even contain principles taken from the Bible, or even plagiarized. I've read that the Book of Mormon, DOC, GPOP contains thousands of plagiarized verses from the Bible with usually altered versions. But they will not save you. Jesus saves, the Jesus of the Bible. His mission began in Jerusalem and with the Jews. He died and rose after the third day, then ascended into Heaven. Then He sent the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. On the cross, He said, Tetelestai (It is finished). He equipped the disciples for their mission, to THEN SPREAD THE GOSPEL AMONG THE GENTILE WORLD. They did and this is how it happened. Believing any other additional stories about Jesus is deceptive.
To the Mormon: Stick with the Bible and discard the rest! If nothing else and you are still insistent about your religion, examine the numbers. After 150 years, the Mormons have maybe 15 million believers? If that was the true religion, it would have abolished or drastically diminished all others and grown. It hasn't. By 1900 there were 500 million Christians, now we have 2.42 Billion. That's growth, that's God growing His Church. Jehovah Witnesses also only have 8- million after Charles Taze Russel started their organization over 100 years ago. They believe but have a different concept of who Jesus is as Mormons do. He is not Michael, nor is He Satan's brother. All angels are under Him, for He is God, Who emptied Himself and became flesh and dwelt among us. He is the great I Am, Who spoke to Moses. "I Am" in Ex. 3:14 was an introduction to all the I am's in John. "I am the bread ...; I am the Good Shepherd ; I am the Way, the Truth and the Life; I am Resurrection and the Life; I am the doorway, I am the Vine; I am He, I am from above; Before Abraham was, I AM."

 

[Josh Carver]

I wonder what would happen if you shook his hand with one of those toy hand buzzers?

 

[Peter1000]

Excusez-moi?

-CryptoLutheran

There was no excuse needed, just the truth that there are obviously mainline Christians that believe in Heavenly Mother. Unless you think the Methodists are a cult too.

There is another OP for this.

 

[Peter1000]

I wonder what would happen if you shook his hand with one of those toy hand buzzers?

I think if you read section 129 closely, it says not to use toy hand buzzers. Good question though.

 

[ViaCrucis]

There was no excuse needed, just the truth that there are obviously mainline Christians that believe in Heavenly Mother. Unless you think the Methodists are a cult too.

There is another OP for this.

So here's the thing--Methodists don't believe in a "heavenly mother". Methodists confess the Nicene Creed the same as other orthodox Christian Churches. If there are Methodists out there saying God has a consort, then they're pretty bad Methodists, in fact they'd be heretics.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Peter1000]

So here's the thing--Methodists don't believe in a "heavenly mother". Methodists confess the Nicene Creed the same as other orthodox Christian Churches. If there are Methodists out there saying God has a consort, then they're pretty bad Methodists, in fact they'd be heretics.

-CryptoLutheran

So here is the real thing. Margaret Barker is a Methodist precher and preaches to a Methodist congregation, and Christian communities all around the Christian world, even to Provo Utah and BYU students.

So you cannot say, "If" there are Methodists out there..... You have to say is: It is extraordinary that there are Methodists out there that believe what JS taught us about Heavenly Mother.

And if there are a segment of Methodists, then there can be other Christians that believe this too.

 

[ViaCrucis]

So here is the real thing. Margaret Barker is a Methodist precher and preaches to a Methodist congregation, and Christian communities all around the Christian world, even to Provo Utah and BYU students.

So you cannot say, "If" there are Methodists out there..... You have to say is: It is extraordinary that there are Methodists out there that believe what JS taught us about Heavenly Mother.

And if there are a segment of Methodists, then there can be other Christians that believe this too.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you can read what you just wrote, and that you'll see where the problem is with your thought process.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Peter1000]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you can read what you just wrote, and that you'll see where the problem is with your thought process.

-CryptoLutheran

You said, "If there are Methodists that believe in a Heavenly Mother"....

I said, "there are Methodists that believe in a Heavenly Mother".....

Who has the problem, you or me?

 

[ViaCrucis]

You said, "If there are Methodists that believe in a Heavenly Mother"....

I said, "there are Methodists that believe in a Heavenly Mother".....

Who has the problem, you or me?

Did you notice the part where I said if there were Methodists that believed that God has a consort that they'd be heretics and bad Methodists? Because that part still holds true.

Here's what I was hoping you'd see so you could understand the flaw in your statement: finding a single heretic doesn't translate to "Methodists" believing in something. What you were doing was reaching so hard to try and find something to substantiate your point that I am honestly surprised that you didn't sprain something several times over.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Peter1000]

Did you notice the part where I said if there were Methodists that believed that God has a consort that they'd be heretics and bad Methodists? Because that part still holds true.

Here's what I was hoping you'd see so you could understand the flaw in your statement: finding a single heretic doesn't translate to "Methodists" believing in something. What you were doing was reaching so hard to try and find something to substantiate your point that I am honestly surprised that you didn't sprain something several times over.

-CryptoLutheran

I have never said that the "Methodists" all believe that there is a Heavenly Mother.

My statement was: "There are Methodists". This means that there is a segment, NOT ALL METHODISTS.
I promise you I have made that connection. But you have not made the connection from 1 single Methodist to many Methodists, BUT NOT ALL METHODISTS. Barker is a Methodist preacher and I believe that many believe what she preaches on this subject. I am sure it is not just her that believes this.

I believe there are many Christians, even some Lutherans, that believe there is a Heavenly Mother, but of course not all Christians. I truly understand that.