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hamartia

Cribstyl

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I like YLT, as it tends to follow the NT Greek more literally word for word:

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YLT - 1Jo 3:4 -Every one who is doing the sin, the lawlessness also he doth do, and the sin is the lawlessness,

1st John 3 - Parallel Greek New Testament - HTML Bible by johnhurt.com

4

Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus

paV o poiwn thn amartian kai thn anomian poiei kai h amartia estin h anomia



4

Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus
paV o poiwn thn amartian kai thn anomian poiei kai h amartia estin h anomia
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: Cool.......Can you find any historical dialog on why the NKJV adopted the change?
 
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Cribstyl

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Some people are not sure who wrote the book of Hebrews.
Most attribute the book of Hebrews to Paul.
I believe it was Paul because of these texts.


Hbr 6:1¶Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Hbr 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.


What NT writer can say;
I taught the doctrine repentance from dead works. ( doctrine of repentance of sin)
I taught the doctrine of faith,
I taught the about laying on of hands (gifts of the spirit)
I taught the doctrine of resurrection of the dead.
I taught the doctrine of eternal judgment.
 
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New_Wineskin

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You make sense NW, but we still cant change the definition of a word to suit our purpose. To know that Sin in both Hebrew and Greek means 'To miss a target' makes enough sense.

Well now , *you* just changed the definition of the word . You also do not define the "mark" making your definition useless . The translators know the word as good as any . Do you know of any translations that do not use the word "sin" but use the phrase "miss the mark" ?

And , in your OP , you did not prove that "sin" was defined as "miss the mark but ...
The Biblical terms for sin translated from Greek and Hebrew literally refer to missing a mark or target.

"Literally refer to" does not mean "definition" .

My biggest problem with using an origin of a word instead of its later use as used in the Scriptures is "missing the mark" or target leads into people calling sins "slips" . "oops , didn't mean to " . Or , a worse use would be to load all sorts of burdens onto people about not hitting a mark perfectly and so into sin . " Yes , you obeyed the Lord . But , did you do it *perfectly* . If not , you missed the mark and you are in sin . " So many preachers thrive on adding guilt upon guilt onto their charges .

It is a big problem for those who believe that target is the law.
We can and will look at many passages that explore the relationship between law and sin as it unfolds in the scriptures.
Of course , if the mark or target is the law ( meaning the "authority of the Scriptures ) , there is a huge problem .

Yet , it is clear that sin is disobedience to *a* law even though it is not *the* law . That is why I quoted three passages that show that sin is disobedience to *a* law while it is clearly not *the* law .

Another passage to consider with respect to sin being connected to laws but not necessarily to *the* law ...
niv said:
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.
 
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Cribstyl

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Well now , *you* just changed the definition of the word . You also do not define the "mark" making your definition useless . The translators know the word as good as any . Do you know of any translations that do not use the word "sin" but use the phrase "miss the mark" ?

And , in your OP , you did not prove that "sin" was defined as "miss the mark but ...

"Literally refer to" does not mean "definition" .

My biggest problem with using an origin of a word instead of its later use as used in the Scriptures is "missing the mark" or target leads into people calling sins "slips" . "oops , didn't mean to " . Or , a worse use would be to load all sorts of burdens onto people about not hitting a mark perfectly and so into sin . " Yes , you obeyed the Lord . But , did you do it *perfectly* . If not , you missed the mark and you are in sin . " So many preachers thrive on adding guilt upon guilt onto their charges .


Of course , if the mark or target is the law ( meaning the "authority of the Scriptures ) , there is a huge problem .

Yet , it is clear that sin is disobedience to *a* law even though it is not *the* law . That is why I quoted three passages that show that sin is disobedience to *a* law while it is clearly not *the* law .

Another passage to consider with respect to sin being connected to laws but not necessarily to *the* law ...
Clearly, this thread is useless to you, maybe you should move to another thread.:sorry::sorry::sorry:
I'm not expecting everyone to agree with me. I do find it uncool to try to derail a thread because you dont agree.
If you posted scripture and provided evidence to support your disagreement everyone would be edified. Your claims are what seem bogus and unsupported.

Here is a rebuttal of your arguments.

Connected to each verse in the blueletterbible, is a tab for Strong's concordance and Heb/Greek lexicon.
The Strong's concordance numbers shows that when you click on h2398
The word 'chata' is translated 'SIN' in the Approved Version (KJV) 188 times.
AV —sin 188, purify 11, cleanse 8, sinner 8, committed 6, offended 4, blame 2, done 2, fault 1, harm 1, loss 1, miss 1, offender 1, purge 1, reconciliation 1, sinful 1, trespass 1

Bible definitions given are..............
1) to sin, miss, miss the way, go wrong, incur guilt, forfeit, purify from uncleanness
a) (Qal)
1) to miss
2) to sin, miss the goal or path of right and duty
3) to incur guilt, incur penalty by sin, forfeit
b) (Piel)
1) to bear loss
2) to make a sin-offering
3) to purify from sin
4) to purify from uncleanness
c) (Hiphil)
1) to miss the mark
2) to induce to sin, cause to sin
3) to bring into guilt or condemnation or punishment
d) (Hithpael)
1) to miss oneself, lose oneself, wander from the way
2) to purify oneself from uncleanness



Should I be accused of changing definition when words normally have multiple uses and definitions?
Why should I have to define what "mark" means, if it used to define sin in both old and new Testatment....Hebrew and Greek?
Does it take more than common sense to understand that 'a target' is 'a mark'?
Clue:A "root word" does not mean old use vs modern use, it means that other words are stemmed from it. (example: sun, sunny, sunlight.....sin, sinned, sinning )

Here is a text that used both 'chattah' and 'chata' interchangeably to describe sin.
For his sins h2403חטאת chatta'ath
speaker18x12.png

which he sinned h2398חטא chata'
speaker18x12.png

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in doing h6213עשה `asah
speaker18x12.png

tense_tag.gif
evil h7451רע ra`
speaker18x12.png

in the sight h5869עין `ayin
speaker18x12.png

of the LORD, h3068יהוה Yĕhovah
speaker18x12.png

in walking h3212ילך yalak
speaker18x12.png

tense_tag.gif
in the way h1870דרך derek
speaker18x12.png

of Jeroboam, h3379ירבעם Yarob`am
speaker18x12.png

and in his sin h2403חטאת chatta'ath
speaker18x12.png

which he did, h6213עשה `asah
speaker18x12.png

tense_tag.gif
to make Israel h3478ישראל Yisra'el
speaker18x12.png

to sin. h2398חטא chata'
 
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New_Wineskin

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Clearly, this thread is useless to you, maybe you should move to another thread.:sorry::sorry::sorry:
I'm not expecting everyone to agree with me. I do find it uncool to try to derail a thread because you dont agree.
If you posted scripture and provided evidence to support your disagreement everyone would be edified. Your claims are what seem bogus and unsupported.

So , because *you* disagree , you vomit on the passages that I provided - at least four passges from the Scriptures - they are not Scriptures to you because they blow apart your theory . Falsely accusing me because I don't agree is not edifying .

Fine , since you are incapable of logical discourse , I will leave you alone .
 
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MoreCoffee

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Sin is an offense against God as well as a fault against reason, truth, and right conscience. Sin is a deliberate thought, word, deed, or omission contrary to the eternal law of God. In judging the gravity of sin, it is customary to distinguish between mortal and venial sins.
 
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Cribstyl

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So , because *you* disagree , you vomit on the passages that I provided - at least four passges from the Scriptures - they are not Scriptures to you because they blow apart your theory . Falsely accusing me because I don't agree is not edifying .

Fine , since you are incapable of logical discourse , I will leave you alone .
Speaking about being incapable of logical discourse, let's rewind to see your posts in this thread.

I started a thread about SIN, and your first statement was; " (in post #6) this type of theology makes a mess of things...." "useless"
Then you wanted me answer your 3 questions about law and sin.

This was my response to you; (in post #11 )You make sense NW, but we still cant change the definition of a word to suit our purpose. To know that Sin in both Hebrew and Greek means 'To miss a target' makes enough sense.
It is a big problem for those who believe that target is the law.
We can and will look at many passages that explore the relationship between law and sin as it unfolds in the scriptures.

NW,your following post was; ( #44 ) In it you're the one who falsely accuses me...., *you* just changed the definition of the word . You also do not define the "mark" making your definition useless .

NW, you're the one who have been personal and disrespectful.
The fact that I posted Strong's corcordance of the definition for SIN for the second time...... it was to show your accusation are unwarranted.

You have not acknowledged or followup on my rebuttals. But I have responded to each of your posts.

If you want me to comment on your texts; provide the KJV version with text references (book, chapter and verse)

Try respectful communication and we'll both walk away as men who love God and our neighbors.
:cool::cool::cool:
 
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Cribstyl

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Unlike the law which was given solely to the Children of Israel, Paul felt that he owed teaching the gospel to a location near you. (rather than a specific group)

Rom 1:14I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.

Rom 1:15So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.


Armed with the Gospel and a personal revelation of Jesus Christ, Paul makes this disclaimer before teaching a mixed audience.

Rom 1:16¶For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Comments on above texts: In the preaching of the Gospel, 'the power of God to save' is a made available to the hearer.
God grants salvation to everyone who believes in the message of the Gospel. God's way of being made righteous is being revealed according to each man's faith.
Just as it's written in the OT, those who are justified shall live by faith.
 
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Cribstyl

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Rom 1:18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

( The punishment of God is revealed against SIN and men keep holding the bible in one hand and doing what wrong. Paul explains sin as; 'all unrighteousness and ungodliness.' )

Rom 1:19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
( God hath showed humanity His creation acts through Moses' pen; and not only did He breathed His spirit in man, we're made in His image and after His likeness.)
 
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Cribstyl

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Unlike the law which was given solely to the Children of Israel, Paul felt that he owed teaching the gospel to a location near you. (rather than a specific group)

Rom 1:14I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.

Rom 1:15So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.


Armed with the Gospel and a personal revelation of Jesus Christ, Paul makes this disclaimer before teaching a mixed audience.

Rom 1:16¶For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Comments on above texts: In the preaching of the Gospel, 'the power of God to save' is a made available to the hearer.
God grants salvation to everyone who believes in the message of the Gospel. God's way of being made righteous is being revealed according to each man's faith.
Just as it's written in the OT, those who are justified shall live by faith.
Wow, Crib this is good stuff:thumbsup: It appears to be a solid statement to say; "we're saved by faith." Some people like to argue against this bible truth.
There are multiple truth compacted into these 2 doctrinal verses.
 
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Cribstyl

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Rom 1:20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Rom 1:21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

The things that was given in creation showed that a greater power was invisibly at work behind the scene. By providing all that men could possibly need, exposed that God was present.

Rather than giving God honor and glory, men acted ignorant and ungreatful and began to explore whatever came to their minds.
 
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Cribstyl

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Must be hard work to keep this thread alive :p:p:p
From looking at all the threads you've started, posting catholic commentary would be a fatal wound.:p:p:p



No problem, my passion is the word of God. That's not so popular with the world.

How many people have 3 or more bibles and have never read it?
How many people know that the bible is spiritual food we need daily?

What do I lose by trying to give and get understanding about God's word only????
 
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Cribstyl

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Rom 1:22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Rom 1:25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Here in Romans 1, Paul is summerizing the fall of man from the image of God (sin).
Consistant with what God did before the flood, Paul is explaining the evil that men commited and the results that followed. The fact that Paul is not talking about a law given from creation is clearly evident.




Question: How can men possibly change the glory of God?
 
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Cribstyl

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Rom 1:22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Rom 1:25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Here in Romans 1, Paul is summerizing the fall of man from the image of God.





Question: How can men possibly change the glory of God?
Answer: Paul implies that man changed from the image that God created them in, into the image of creatures who strive like animals for survival on the earth.

.
 
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Cribstyl

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From the pages of Genesis, here is what we're are given to consider about Adam before sin. We are told that God planted a "tree of knowledge of good and evil' and told Adam:
Gen 2:17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

There is no hint about any of the ten commandment or the law given to Adam. Why should we be having dialog about the law in creation? All scriptural evidence proves that the law was first given at Sinai?

We read about God commanding man to be fruitful and multiply, subdue the earth, And that man and woman be joined together as one flesh.

Paul articulated biblical history saying; before the law was ever given, sin was in the world, and death reigned for 'sin' from Adam to Moses.
Rom 5:13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Notice that Paul mentioned 'Adam's trangression' (singular) which bares witness to Adam eating the forbidden fruit.

Also, What Paul meant by ....'them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam.".... is that people died for their sins and they were not given a commandment as Adam was given. So Paul is reenforcing his point that there was no law from Adam to Moses.
;););)
 
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BrotherDC

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Before we continue further on this interactive study, let's have a word of prayer.


:crossrc::crosseo::prayer::groupray:
Heavenly Father, to you belong all Glory and Praise. We thank you that we're are able to come to your throne by the blood on your Son Jesus Christ. We thank you for your grace and mercy toward us.
Lord we ask you to open our spiritual eyes and ears to see and understand your word.
Lord send us able teachers, who will teach and prove your word, that we may be able to eat it and live. :amen:

:)
 
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