hamartia

[fhansen]

​

Were they sinning by not oberving those other weightier matters of the Law?.

They obviously remained in their sins; the law as they observed it couldn't justify them.

 

[Frogster]

​

Were they sinning by neglecting those other weightier matters of the Law?


http://www.christianforums.com/t7580094/
“Pharisaical" Legalism?




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[LittleLambofJesus]

Mat 23:23
`Wo to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
because ye give tithe of the mint, and the dill, and the cumin, and ye did neglect the weightier things of the Law -- the judgment, and the kindness, and the faith;
these it behoved [you] to do, and those not to neglect

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

Were they sinning by not oberving those other weightier matters of the Law?
​

They obviously remained in their sins; the law as they observed it couldn't justify them.

Not to pick on your Denomination, but could the reason a lot of the Reformers believed the RCC was the "antichrist/harlot", was because the early centuries CC also neglected those things Jesus spoke of?

Rev 18:4
And I heard another voice out of the heaven, saying, `Come forth out of her, My people,
that ye may not partake with her sins, and that ye may not receive of her plagues,
5 because her sins did follow -- unto the heaven, and God did remember her unrighteousness.

http://www.christianforums.com/t5445935/
For the Last Time, Roman Catholics Aren't the Pharisees!



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[Cribstyl]

so a day of prayer makes on righteous?

Righteousness is doing what is right.
Prayer is a work of faith. It testifies that there is a God and we're are being subjective to Him daily (give us this day).

Some people can prayer all day long and then go out and tell a beggar, get outa here.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Righteousness is doing what is right.
Prayer is a work of faith. It testifies that there is a God and we're are being subjective to Him daily (give us this day).

Some people can prayer all day long and then go out and tell a beggar, get outa here.

Reminds me of this passage in James 2

Jam 2:3
If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say 'here's a good seat for you,'
but say to the poor man, 'you stand there' or 'sit on the floor by my feet,'

And also this parable in Luke 16:

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus

LUKE 16:19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.

The clothing of the rich man identifies him symbolically with the people of Israel, chosen by God to be His special people. They were called to be a witness to the nations surrounding them, confirming the blessings available to those who would obey God and keep His laws. Unfortunately, they frequently did not live up to the high calling given to them by God. Eventually He sent them into captivity for their refusal to honor their part of the covenant ratified at Mount Sinai.

At the time of Yeshua, only the House of Judah continued to have a covenant relationship with God. The rich man in this parable represents the religious Jews of Yeshua's day, exemplified by their teachers, the Pharisees and scribes

20" But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table.

In contrast to the rich man, we now see Lazarus. The first thing to note is that he is depicted as a beggar.
This is an apt description of the Gentiles who "laid at the gate" of Judah. Paul describes the predicament of the Gentiles before they accepted the Messiah in his letter to the Ephesians:


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[fhansen]

Not to pick on your Denomination, but could the reason a lot of the Reformers believed the RCC was the "antichrist/harlot", was because the early centuries CC also neglected those things Jesus spoke of?

Of course. I had the same kinds of reasons for leaving the Pentecostal church I used to attend. But I finally left it over doctrinal reasons instead-rather than leaving it when it became apparent that they weren't always heeding or practicing their own doctrines.

Many religious people are hypocritical in the practice of their faith. In fact it could be said that the very purpose of our faith is to lead us from hypocrisy/pride/self-righteousness to humility and faith in God rather than faith in ourselves. Those who reject the mainstream practice of faith and actually start living it-putting the gospel into practice-are sometimes later recognized as saints-sort of the heroes of our faith. St Francis of Assisi is an example of one who wouldn't compromise-he put the beatitudes into practice, practicing humility, faith, and love, to the scorn of the religious powers-that-be. And yet he heard and was motivated by the gospel-the truth- from the very church they held their power in.

 

[Cribstyl]

From the pages of Genesis, here is what we're are given to consider about Adam before sin. We are told that God planted a "tree of knowledge of good and evil' and told Adam:
Gen 2:17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

There is no hint about any of the ten commandment or the law given to Adam. Why should we be having dialog about the law in creation? All scriptural evidence proves that the law was first given at Sinai?

We read about God commanding man to be fruitful and multiply, subdue the earth, And that man and woman be joined together as one flesh.

Paul articulated biblical history saying; before the law was ever given, sin was in the world, and death reigned for 'sin' from Adam to Moses.
Rom 5:13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Notice that Paul mentioned 'Adam's trangression' (singular) which bares witness to Adam eating the forbidden fruit.

Also, What Paul meant by ....'them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam.".... is that people died for their sins and they were not given a commandment as Adam was given. So Paul is reenforcing his point that there was no law from Adam to Moses.

 

[Frogster]

Righteousness is doing what is right.
Prayer is a work of faith. It testifies that there is a God and we're are being subjective to Him daily (give us this day).

Some people can prayer all day long and then go out and tell a beggar, get outa here.

true.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

Not to pick on your Denomination, but could the reason a lot of the Reformers believed the RCC was the "antichrist/harlot", was because the early centuries CC also neglected those things Jesus spoke of?
​

Of course. I had the same kinds of reasons for leaving the Pentecostal church I used to attend.
But I finally left it over doctrinal reasons instead-rather than leaving it when it became apparent that they weren't always heeding or practicing their own doctrines.

Many religious people are hypocritical in the practice of their faith. In fact it could be said that the very purpose of our faith is to lead us from hypocrisy/pride/self-righteousness to humility and faith in God rather than faith in ourselves. Those who reject the mainstream practice of faith and actually start living it-putting the gospel into practice-are sometimes later recognized as saints-sort of the heroes of our faith. St Francis of Assisi is an example of one who wouldn't compromise-he put the beatitudes into practice, practicing humility, faith, and love, to the scorn of the religious powers-that-be.
And yet he heard and was motivated by the gospel-the truth- from the very church they held their power in.

I rather like the Pentecost church myself and attended 1 for a number of years.
Then the Minister left, because of a disagreement with the church leaders, and so did more than half the Congregation.

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[Cribstyl]

The very first time the word SIN is used in the bible, we find God explaining the nature of sin to Cain.

Gen 4:7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

God explained to Cain, that sin is something waiting and wanting to come out of you, and when it does it can to rule over your life.

Do we read God saying to Cain, "Hey dude, dont forget "thou shall not kill". or "you sinned when you brought the wrong sacrifice? Some churches teach that mess. They have the nerves to claim sola scripture, but have tons more to say than Moses wrote about sin from creation.

 

[pshun2404]

It's a secret to some people that the definition for Sin is not trangression of the law.
The Biblical terms for sin translated from Greek and Hebrew literally refer to missing a mark or target.

The bible at the beginning, tells that God created man is His image and after His likeness.


The bible did not tell us from the beginning that sin is trangression of a law.


(2Bcontinued) I had to keep my word and start this thread.

God's first law revealed that by partaking of the tree of knowledge the fruit of it is death...they partook and so death entered the world. They violated God's law...God has revealed another law called gravity...to violate this law from the top of a skyscraper means death...and if I jump I will die...so what is your point exactly?

Paul

 

[Cribstyl]

James explained sin similar to how God did to Cain.

Jam 1:13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Jam 1:14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jam 1:15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

James explains: sin is produced from temptation that comes from within a man. It's called lust, and when it is birthed it is called sin and sin brings forth death.

Those who establish that sin is trangression of the law as a premise, have to look in the back of their bible for that understanding.
That statement has some merit but it does not articulate what God said to the prophets nor what Paul taught as gospel.

 

[fhansen]

I rather like the Pentecost church myself and attended 1 for a number of years.
Then the Minister left, because of a disagreement with the church leaders, and so did more than half the Congregation.

.

I rather liked mine too. The point was that in that particular church they weren't practicing what they preached either. But I ended up leaving because of the preaching rather than the practices.

 

[PreachingChristCrucified]

It's a secret to some people that the definition for Sin is not trangression of the law.
The Biblical terms for sin translated from Greek and Hebrew literally refer to missing a mark or target.

The bible at the beginning, tells that God created man is His image and after His likeness.


The bible did not tell us from the beginning that sin is trangression of a law.


(2Bcontinued) I had to keep my word and start this thread.

No, you are wrong. Transgression of the law is missing the mark. Sin is transgression of the law, the bible says so.

 

[Cribstyl]

God's first law revealed that by partaking of the tree of knowledge the fruit of it is death...they partook and so death entered the world. They violated God's law...God has revealed another law called gravity...to violate this law from the top of a skyscraper means death...and if I jump I will die...so what is your point exactly?

Paul

Respectfully Sir,
If you commentary noted scriptures that said Adam had a law, you'd have something tangible to add to this thread.

If I have posted scriptures saying: from Adam to Moses sin was in the world before the law, my point is crystal clear.

 

[Cribstyl]

No, you are wrong. Transgression of the law is missing the mark. Sin is transgression of the law, the bible says so.

You posted my OP and said I was wrong. It should be easy for you to prove exactly what I said in the OP as a false witness.

To clarify the OP... The formost bible definition of Sin, is to miss, or to miss the mark. Sin is trangression of the law is one of many explanations of sin.

Hebrew word....
chata'
is the root word from where we get Chattah
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) to sin, miss, miss the way, go wrong, incur guilt, forfeit, purify from uncleanness
a) (Qal)
1) to miss
2) to sin, miss the goal or path of right and duty
3) to incur guilt, incur penalty by sin, forfeit
b) (Piel)
1) to bear loss
2) to make a sin-offering
3) to purify from sin
4) to purify from uncleanness
c) (Hiphil)
1) to miss the mark
2) to induce to sin, cause to sin
3) to bring into guilt or condemnation or punishment
d) (Hithpael)
1) to miss oneself, lose oneself, wander from the way
2) to purify oneself from uncleanness

AV — sin 188, purify 11, cleanse 8, sinner 8, committed 6, offended 4, blame 2, done 2, fault 1, harm 1, loss 1, miss 1, offender 1, purge 1, reconciliation 1, sinful 1, trespass 1

....................................................................................................

The fact is; One of many explanation about Sin we get from 1John 3:4; it's correctly translated as 'sin is lawlessness'.

Fact is, the NKJV corrected to propperly translated the Greek words used by John, from KJV - 1Jo 3:4 -Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

To

NKJV - 1Jo 3:4 -Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.


The word 'anomia' translated as 'sin is lawlessness' in 1John 3:4 is defined as 'iniquity' 12/15 of it's usage.
AV — iniquity 12, unrighteousness 1, transgress the law + 4160 1, transgression of the law 1


The word for 'law' was never present in this text.

So establishing "sin as trangression of the law" as a premise stands on shakey foundation.

 

[PreachingChristCrucified]

Sin is transgression of the law; the Bible says so and it is crystal clear.

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

You don't have a leg to stand on or any defense.

What you are saying is falsehood.

Yield to Holy Scripture.

 

[Cribstyl]

Sin is transgression of the law; the Bible says so and it is crystal clear.

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

You don't have a leg to stand on or any defense.

What you are saying is falsehood.

Yield to Holy Scripture.

Some people swear by the KJV (i do) but words should be subject to propper interpretation.
The fact that the New King James and most mordern translation gets it right should give me some credibilitly on this issue.

KJV - 1Jo 3:4 -Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

© Info: - King James Version 1769 Info​

NKJV - 1Jo 3:4 -Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

© Info: - New King James Version © 1982 Thomas Nelson​

NLT - 1Jo 3:4 -Everyone who sins is breaking God's law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God.

© Info: - New Living Translation © 2007 Tyndale House Foundation​

NIV - 1Jo 3:4 -Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.

© Info: - The Holy Bible, New International Version© 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society​

ESV - 1Jo 3:4 -Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

© Info: - English Standard Version © 2001, 2007 Crossway Bibles​

RVR - 1Jo 3:4 -Todo aquel que comete pecado, infringe también la ley; pues el pecado es infracción de la ley.

© Info: - Reina-Valera © 1960 Sociedades Bíblicas en América Latina​

NASB - 1Jo 3:4 -Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

© Info: - New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation​

RSV - 1Jo 3:4 -Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

© Info: - Revised Standard Version © 1947, 1952. ​

ASV - 1Jo 3:4 -Every one that doeth sin doeth also lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

© Info: - American Standard Version 1901 Info​

YLT - 1Jo 3:4 -Every one who is doing the sin, the lawlessness also he doth do, and the sin is the lawlessness,

© Info: - Robert Young Literal Translation 1862, 1887, 1898 Info​

DBY - 1Jo 3:4 -Every one that practises sin practises also lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

© Info: - J.N.Darby Translation 1890 Info​

WEB - 1Jo 3:4 -Whoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law; for sin is the transgression of the law.

© Info: - Noah Webster Version 1833 Info​

HNV - 1Jo 3:4 -Everyone who sins also commits lawlessness. Sin is lawlessness.




English (KJV)

Strong'sRoot Form (Greek)TenseWhosoever g3956πᾶς pas

committeth g4160ποιέω poieō

sin g266ἁμαρτία hamartia

transgresseth g458 ἀνομία anomia

g4160ποιέω poieō

also g2532καί kai

the law: g458 ἀνομία anomia

for g2532καί kai

sin g266ἁμαρτία hamartia

is g2076ἐστί esti

the transgression of the law. g458ἀνομία anomia

 

[Kristos]

The Biblical terms for sin translated from Greek and Hebrew literally refer to missing a mark or target.

Yep

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Some people swear by the KJV but words should be subject to propper interpretation.
The fact that the New King James and most mordern translation gets it right should give me some credibilitly on this issue.

KJV - 1Jo 3:4 -Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

YLT - 1Jo 3:4 -Every one who is doing the sin, the lawlessness also he doth do, and the sin is the lawlessness,



English (KJV)

Strong'sRoot Form (Greek)TenseWhosoever g3956πᾶς pas

committeth g4160ποιέω poieō

sin g266ἁμαρτία hamartia

transgresseth g458 ἀνομία anomia

g4160ποιέω poieō

also g2532καί kai

the law: g458 ἀνομία anomia

for g2532καί kai

sin g266ἁμαρτία hamartia

is g2076ἐστί esti

the transgression of the law. g458ἀνομία anomia

I like YLT, as it tends to follow the NT Greek more literally word for word:

YLT - 1Jo 3:4 -Every one who is doing the sin, the lawlessness also he doth do, and the sin is the lawlessness,

1st John 3 - Parallel Greek New Testament - HTML Bible by johnhurt.com

4

Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus

paV o poiwn thn amartian kai thn anomian poiei kai h amartia estin h anomia



4

Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus
paV o poiwn thn amartian kai thn anomian poiei kai h amartia estin h anomia