Halloween - Do you celebrate or not?

[CoreyD]

It sounds to me like you are merely engaging in moralism. Which I have no interest in entertaining. If you would like to assume that I don't know the Scripture, or that I lack knowledge of God, you are free to hold to that opinion about me.

I've met and known both moralistic and legalistic forms of religion; I've seen what that particular form of spiritual bondage does and how it kills the conscience, confuses Law and Gospel, and ultimately shipwrecks faith in Christ.

Moralism, at the end of the day, is so concerned with trying to please God by creating rules to follow that have nothing to do with the commandments of God that the actual commandment of God is ignored. It becomes an act of washing the outside of the cup while the inside remains dirty, it is the path of hypocrisy.

If you watch a horror movie that isn't a moral issue.
How you treat the least of these, the marginalized, that's a moral issue.

What you watch, that's a matter of conscience.
What you eat or drink, that's a matter of conscience.
What you wear, that's a matter of conscience.

How you treat others? That's a matter of the commandment of God.

-CryptoLutheran

If I love violence, and being entertained by it, according to God's word, that is not a matter of conscience.
That is a direct command, based on a principle laid out in God's word, for servants of God - those who love God - to follow.

The command : Psalms 97:10
The principle : Psalm 11:5
These all stand on the foundation of a command that must be obeyed.
You must be holy because I, the LORD your God, am holy. Leviticus 19:2
But now you must be holy in everything you do, just as God who chose you is holy. 1 Peter 1:15

Thanks for listening and responding. I really appreciate that.
I am happy to have tried, to share God's view on this matter with you, because whether you accept it or not - which it is my hope that you would see it as it is written - I am innocent of the blood of all men, for I have not withheld the counsel of God. Ezekiel 3:19; Acts 20:26, 27
Acts 18:6

 

[tobelieveinHim]

It seems this post is getting a little out of hand, but I am a little shocked and surprised that someone would think this post is insincere. This is a topic that I am very concerned with, and it is a topic that I take very seriously.

I believe the passiveness of this by Christians, is part of the destruction and deteriorating of our society.

Kids do not need to be taught to beg adults for sugar.

 

[dlamberth]

It seems this post is getting a little out of hand, but I am a little shocked and surprised that someone would think this post is insincere. This is a topic that I am very concerned with, and it is a topic that I take very seriously.

I believe the passiveness of this by Christians, is part of the destruction and deteriorating of our society.

Kids do not need to be taught to beg adults for sugar.

I'm not understanding how Halloween is destructive and deteriorates our society as I see it as just the opposite. That's because it's a fun and creative evening that together we can participate in. And if someone doesn't want to, they have the freedom to not participate in it.

 

[stevil]

I'm not understanding how Halloween is destructive and deteriorates our society as I see it as just the opposite. That's because it's a fun and creative evening that together we can participate in. And if someone doesn't want to, they have the freedom to not participate in it.

Many parents and schools try to teach kids not to approach strangers, and to be very weary of unknown men offering lollies or such.
I personally try to teach my kids that they deserve nothing, but if they want something then they can earn it. Wash the car, do dishes, do stuff, and then get rewarded with the means to acquire stuff.
Maybe Mum and Dad and the grandparents get generous from time to time, but gifts are to be grateful for, not expected or demanding of.
Certainly don't expect strangers to give you stuff.

At least with Xmas and Easter, kids don't go knocking door to door expecting presents and chocolates from strangers.

This Halloween ritual is quite insane.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

It seems this post is getting a little out of hand, but I am a little shocked and surprised that someone would think this post is insincere. This is a topic that I am very concerned with, and it is a topic that I take very seriously.

I believe the passiveness of this by Christians, is part of the destruction and deteriorating of our society.

Kids do not need to be taught to beg adults for sugar.

Around here, we have people Christmas carol and the expectation is to tip them as they are doing it as a means to fund a cause. Sometimes it’s mission trips, sometimes it’s food pantries, sometimes it’s football teams.

And while we are at it, Christmas is used as a means for kids to beg their parents for toys.

So I guess that means Christmas is part of the deterioration of society and celebrating that is not appropriate.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Many parents and schools try to teach kids not to approach strangers, and to be very weary of unknown men offering lollies or such.
I personally try to teach my kids that they deserve nothing, but if they want something then they can earn it. Wash the car, do dishes, do stuff, and then get rewarded with the means to acquire stuff.
Maybe Mum and Dad and the grandparents get generous from time to time, but gifts are to be grateful for, not expected or demanding of.
Certainly don't expect strangers to give you stuff.

At least with Xmas and Easter, kids don't go knocking door to door expecting presents and chocolates from strangers.

This Halloween ritual is quite insane.

Kids don’t go to peoples houses expecting presents during Christmas? Since when?

Most people are able to distinguish between:

* Person approaching unsupervised kids and asking if they want candy
* People begging for things without working for them
* Parents and kids joining hundreds of other parents and kids to join in a cultural holiday where, once a year, they go to houses and get a candy worth 10 cents

It’s like saying taking candy from the office candy bowl teaches people to be lazy and beg for handouts.

I tend to think that, having never seen it or experienced it as you’re from another country, the finer points of it escape you and you aren’t going to get it until you see it.

Like looking at Christmas lights. It’s not uncommon for families to load up the car and drive around looking at Christmas lights. From the outside it’s “you’re driving to look at lights people buy at Walmart and put on their house…?” but when you experience it, it’s totally different. Putting lights and having people come see them is a unifying experience, done for the benefit of others, for the sole purpose of making people happy. Your electric bill will go up, it’s a hassle to set them up and take them down, but people do it anyway because it looks great and makes strangers feel happy.

Halloween is much the same… You spend money on candy or costumes or candy and costumes, then you hand it out for no other reason than it makes people happy. No kid walks away saying “now I know I can go door to door and beg for things and get it.” They just have fun.

Like I said, at our house we get well over 1,000 kids. Well over. And sitting outside in a costume in front of the house you may or may not have done up to look great for the night, handing out candy for 2 or 3 hours to kids who are having a ton of fun (and their parents who are watching them have fun) is a completely magical experience.

My German relatives, they “knew” what Halloween was and didn’t KNOW what it was until they did it. “It’s an American thing.” But when they were in town over one Halloween and got to be a part of it, it ended up being the best part of the trip. They still talk about seeing the roads just fill with kids, elbow to elbow, running from house to house with their parents, and the level of unmitigated happiness from everybody to give and watch others receive. They marveled about the costumes, the houses, the decorating, the whole thing. Now they do Halloween in Germany and despite being the only house on the block to do it, they love it.

 

[stevil]

Kids don’t go to peoples houses expecting presents during Christmas? Since when?

Huh? In USA do you have random kids knocking on your door demanding a wrapped gift?
That's strange, I've never heard of that one.

Like I said, at our house we get well over 1,000 kids. Well over.

Sounds like an absolute nightmare to me.

They marveled about the costumes, the houses, the decorating, the whole thing. Now they do Halloween in Germany and despite being the only house on the block to do it, they love it.

It's starting to infect our country too. I keep telling my kids this is a USA thing not an NZ thing. But thankfully my kids are getting too old for that nonsense. My eldest had no interest in it this year.
Keep it in USA, you guys can have all the "fun", hopefully it dies out here.

 

[stevil]

And while we are at it, Christmas is used as a means for kids to beg their parents for toys.

So I guess that means Christmas is part of the deterioration of society and celebrating that is not appropriate.

We wait till after boxing day because everything is on sale then. All those people rushing back to the stores to return the gifts they never wanted.
It's just madness, buy something for $100 in the week before Christmas and see it on the shelves after Christmas at $40.

Thankfully, no one goes door knocking doing Xmas carols here.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Huh? In USA do you have random kids knocking on your door demanding a wrapped gift?
That's strange, I've never heard of that one.

When my kids get in the car to go to grandmas, they go knowing/expecting gifts. When kids (or adults) go caroling, it’s often with the expectation of tips/donations for their cause. People do food and toy drives every year with the hopes and expectations that strangers will come together to give over the holidays.

To say there’s an expectation of stuff when you go trick-or-treating and thus it’s bad, but then when confronted with the expectations for stuff on Christmas say “well that’s different,” that’s hypocritical. If going door to door and saying trick or treat in exchange for 10 cents worth of candy is sin because it teaches reliance on handouts and encourages greed, it must be triply so for Christmas.

Sounds like an absolute nightmare to me.

And that may be for you, but “I don’t like it, therefore it’s sin” isn’t how that works.

It's starting to infect our country too. I keep telling my kids this is a USA thing not an NZ thing. But thankfully my kids are getting too old for that nonsense. My eldest had no interest in it this year.
Keep it in USA, you guys can have all the "fun", hopefully it dies out here.

I doubt it will. Clearly people see the joy in it and want to spread it and don’t have the “ewwww, America” sentiment you do. Because honestly, your hang up sounds much more “I don’t like America” than anything else.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

We wait till after boxing day because everything is on sale then. All those people rushing back to the stores to return the gifts they never wanted.
It's just madness, buy something for $100 in the week before Christmas and see it on the shelves after Christmas at $40.

Weird, because around here it’s the exact opposite… Prices never get better than this time of year, especially on big ticket items.

The only things that are 60% off the week after Christmas vs the week before are things like Christmas decorations and seasonally-specific things, or things niche things and overstock brought in just for Christmas that now are priced at a loss to get it to move. Their MSRP doesn’t change, just the need to get it off the shelf. Having worked retail a gabillion years, it’s marked down for maybe a week, then goes full price when inventory stabilizes.

Thankfully, no one goes door knocking doing Xmas carols here.

Bummer for you guys. Another fun tradition.

 

[stevil]

To say there’s an expectation of stuff when you go trick-or-treating and thus it’s bad, but then when confronted with the expectations for stuff on Christmas say “well that’s different,” that’s hypocritical. If going door to door and saying trick or treat in exchange for 10 cents worth of candy is sin because it teaches reliance on handouts and encourages greed, it must be triply so for Christmas.

Getting gifts from family is very different to door knocking on strangers houses for junk candy.

And that may be for you, but “I don’t like it, therefore it’s sin” isn’t how that works.

Who ever said anything about "sin"
That word has no meaning to me whatsoever.

I doubt it will. Clearly people see the joy in it and want to spread it and don’t have the “ewwww, America” sentiment you do. Because honestly, your hang up sounds much more “I don’t like America” than anything else.

Kids love lollies. I don't actually think they care anything about halloween, they just want free lollies.
USA is fine, Canada would be my favourite American country though. Would love to visit Canada, it looks really beautiful in photos.
Not sure why you think I think the Americas is ewwwwww. I'm just talking about Halloween here.

 

[RDKirk]

There is a Christian way to observe All Hallows' Eve, but it's not dressing in costumes and going "trick or treating" or partying.

As to whether it's harmful to dress in costumes and go trick-or-treating and partying, the questions for Christians are: "Is it beneficial? Is it edifying?"

A number of years ago, I worked on an IT team of 25 programmers--all Indian--and myself as the network specialist that ran their test and production servers for a particular product. Most of those Indians were Hindu, but one was Christian. So, that year the Hindu festival of Diwali fell right between Thanksgiving and Christmas. The Hindu programmers brought in various foods traditional to that holy day.

I tried some of them, but I noted that the Christian Indian very carefully touched none of it. I asked her about that, and she explained that the other Indians knew she was Christian and always watched her witness. If she ate any of the Diwali food, it would appear to them that she was "hedging her bets" against whether she had full faith in Christ. She said it was okay for me to eat it because, of course, the food was just food and the other Indians knew it otherwise meant nothing to me. But it would harm her witness for them to see her eat it.

 

[stevil]

A number of years ago, I worked on an IT team of 25 programmers--all Indian--and myself as the network specialist that ran their test and production servers for a particular product. Most of those Indians were Hindu, but one was Christian. So, that year the Hindu festival of Diwali fell right between Thanksgiving and Christmas. The Hindu programmers brought in various foods traditional to that holy day.

I tried some of them, but I noted that the Christian Indian very carefully touched none of it. I asked her about that, and she explained that the other Indians knew she was Christian and always watched her witness. If she ate any of the Diwali food, it would appear to them that she was "hedging her bets" against whether she had full faith in Christ. She said it was okay for me to eat it because, of course, the food was just food and the other Indians knew it otherwise meant nothing to me. But it would harm her witness for them to see her eat it.

That's a very interesting story. She didn't seem to have any personal or religious reasons not to eat it, but she was worried about what others thought.

I guess for her, it was probably no big deal to eat the treats, she's probably tasted it all before. But for her colleagues it might have been nice and seen as a gesture of comradery for her to join in on something that is special to them.

I'm an athiest and I celebrate Christmas, and will eat ham and whatnot at a Christmas dinner. I celebrate Easter and gladly scoff down chocolate. I go to Chinese lantern festivals, eat moon cake, I've been to a Diwali festival and eaten Indian treats.
I think it is good to be free of worrying about what others think, and not being worried about whether people of my own religion will be worried about me joining in on things and sharing a tradition with others.

 

[RDKirk]

That's a very interesting story. She didn't seem to have any personal or religious reasons not to eat it, but she was worried about what others thought.

It's important for Christians to protect their witness. Otherwise, you would call us hypocrites. That was the issue in that case. For Hindus, Divali is not just a day to eat treats, it's a religious observance, and a Christian who would share in a Hindu religious observance would be justly called a hypocrite.

 

[stevil]

It's important for Christians to protect their witness. Otherwise, you would call us hypocrites. That was the issue in that case. For Hindus, Divali is not just a day to eat treats, it's a religious observance, and a Christian who would share in a Hindu religious observance would be justly called a hypocrite.

Well, I wouldn't call a Christian a hypocrate for eating an Indian treat at a Diwali celebration, I would consider them as being friendly and exploring other cultures and customs. I wouldn't think of it as them trying out a different religion.
I'm not interested in trying out any religion, and yet I will gladly eat an Indian treat and gladly go to a Diwali feastival.

 

[RDKirk]

Well, I wouldn't call a Christian a hypocrate for eating an Indian treat at a Diwali celebration, I would consider them as being friendly and exploring other cultures and customs. I wouldn't think of it as them trying out a different religion.
I'm not interested in trying out any religion, and yet I will gladly eat an Indian treat and gladly go to a Diwali feastival.

And for some reason in this discussion, you won't acknowledge that the devoted people of these two different religions don't see things as you do...and don't care.

 

[stevil]

And for some reason in this discussion, you won't acknowledge that the devoted people of these two different religions don't see things as you do...and don't care.

That's a really strange interpretation of my position. People can see things as they see fit.

All I am doing is speaking from the "I".
I'm not presuming to know what others think, and I'm not presuming to tell others how to think or what to do.

 

[dlamberth]

It's important for Christians to protect their witness. Otherwise, you would call us hypocrites. That was the issue in that case. For Hindus, Divali is not just a day to eat treats, it's a religious observance, and a Christian who would share in a Hindu religious observance would be justly called a hypocrite.

I think the only ones calling a Christian a hypocrite for sharing in a Hindu religious observation would be other Christians.

 

[Tinker Grey]

I think the only ones calling a Christian a hypocrite for sharing in a Hindu religious observation would be other Christians.

When I was student (for the nth time) in the early 90s, I had a Christian Indian professor. (I was a Christian then, too.) He invited my wife and I to a Diwali celebration with the Indian community in that town. I got no hint that it was weird for him and it certainly was not for us (we're not Indian).

I'm guessing that attitudes about Christians participating in the festival varies among communities.

 

[dlamberth]

When I was student (for the nth time) in the early 90s, I had a Christian Indian professor. (I was a Christian then, too.) He invited my wife and I to a Diwali celebration with the Indian community in that town. I got no hint that it was weird for him and it certainly was not for us (we're not Indian).

I'm guessing that attitudes about Christians participating in the festival varies among communities.

Nice story. Thanks.