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But it doesn't prove hell is a place of people that have died in the past. Fallen angels are currently roaming mostly freely on earth, from the fall, NOT HUMANS that have died already. Everything you said about these things are all alive right now. If fallen angels were in hell they would be burning right now not here.
Please explain you simply made a statement. I explained what yours meant because you quoted something that doesn't say what you think it says.
Hebrews 8 is very straightforward.
Romans 8 says nothing for your doctrine. If you die believing then you will not be separated by the love of God. If you die believing then death won't separate you from God's love. You will be resurrected to eternal life.
Sorry. I meant to say Hebrews 9. My explanation is in post #86. Verse 27 is stating the obvious. Where are you getting the idea of no hope after death? Your search query in scripture has lead to a dead end.
Hi there Andre.
Romans 8 speaks of us and them, not only they, but us also.
Within that context there is the expansion to "the whole creation" made subject to vanity "not willingly", but by reason of Him who made it so.
The outcome =
The whole of created life shall be delivered / set free.
You are the one in the dead end. Romans 8 was refuted previously. Hebrews 9 verse 27 says "...ONCE TO DIE and THEN THE judgment". After you die there's a final judgment that's why it says THE.
90% of translations do not include the word "the", FYI.
That is also not even what I am arguing here. I think we both agree that there is only one GWTJ. This judgment separates those who will be allowed to enter into New Jerusalem at Christ's coming, and those who will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Where do you see "no hope" inserted? Or is that just your interpretation?
Quote from Tertullian talking about Hades :
• Tertullian - The Christian Idea of the Position of Hades; The Blessedness of Paradise Immediately After Death. The Privilege of the Martyrs - Chapter 55 ( LV.) - # 323
(155-240 A.D.)
ANF3 Tertullian, A Treatise on the Soul
"You have a treatise by us, (on Paradise), in which we have established the position That Every Soul Is Detained In Safe Keeping In Hades Until The Day Of The Lord."
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Sorry that's not the bible. I don't take the opinion or invention of some guy.
How do you know if/when a translation is wrong? Have you ever formally studied either Hebrew or Greek? Can you locate a Hebrew verb or parse a Greek verb? Do you know what a subjunctive is or a hithpael?... 90% of those translations are wrong. truth is irrelevant of majority opinion.
Andre, I will attempt to make it as clear as I can.I'm not sure what you are saying. Set free from sin.
His child is indeed in the grave just like David, but David will be resurrected and so will the child. You really believe David was saying that he will go to his child, in the grave, when dead but not when resurrected into heaven? I don't believe God would sent aborted babies into hell, there is no in-between also, like purgatory or anything like that unbiblical stuff.
I suppose people with severe mental deficiencies will go to hell also?
How do you know if/when a translation is wrong? Have you ever formally studied either Hebrew or Greek? Can you locate a Hebrew verb or parse a Greek verb? Do you know what a subjunctive is or a hithpael?
Sorry there are no second chances after death. One verse says this plain and simple, all other verses you twist out of context. Hebrews 9:27 “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"
This is only symbolic and not literal. Peter means stone, Jesus is the rock. Peter was a leader but didn't establish a church or denomination. Jesus is the foundation/rock of the body of Christ, peter is one stone of the entire "Church".
the Church: the whole body of Christian believers.
How can you burning in hell and be alive for ever? I thought only believers live for ever?
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." perish means you die, everlasting life means life after resurrection.
The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, WHERE HE WAS IN TORMENT, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue,
Because I AM IN AGONY IN THIS FIRE.’ “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us. “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let Him Warn Them, So That They Will Not Also Come TO THIS PLACE OF TORMENT.’
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But You Do take the opinion and invention of Ellen G. White though.
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How do you know if/when a translation is wrong? Have you ever formally studied either Hebrew or Greek? Can you locate a Hebrew verb or parse a Greek verb? Do you know what a subjunctive is or a hithpael?
More literal versions say:
16 For thus God loves the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian. (CLV)
16 for God did so love the world, that His Son—the only begotten—He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during. (YLT)
16 For God, so loved, the world, that, his Only Begotten Son, he gave,—that, whosoever believeth on him, might not perish, but have life age-abiding. (Ro)
16 Thus for loved the God the world, so that the son of himself the only-begotten he gave, that every one who believing into him, not may be destroyed, but may have life age-lasting. (Diaglott)
Perish for how long & in what way? The same Greek word for "perish" is used of the prodigal son who was "lost" but later found. He was ruined, not annihilated.
Not everyone will get EONIAN life, which pro Endless Hell club, anti universalist, versions mistranslate as "eternal life". Those who believe before they die get EONIAN life. They will live & reign with Christ for the 1000 years of the millennial EON (Rev.20). Unbelievers will not. They get saved later since God becomes "all in ALL" (1 Cor.15:22-28). For Jesus is the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world (Jn.1:29), "the Saviour of the world" (John 4:42), Who will draw all to Himself (John 12:32).
John 3:16 says unbelievers "perish", not that they perish endlessly. If Jesus had wanted to say "perish endlessly" there was a Greek word for "endless" He could have used (aperantos, 1 Tim.1:4). He could have also used the words "no end" (Lk.1:33) of perishing. Clearly endless punishment is not the teaching of the Word of God.
"But there are those who find this an intolerable state of affairs, sometimes because of an earnest if misguided devotion to what they believe Scripture or tradition demands, sometimes because the idea of the eternal torment of the derelict appeals to some unpleasantly obvious emotional pathologies on their parts." Saint Origen | David Bentley Hart
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