• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.

Featured Gunmen kill at least 26 Coptic Christians in central Egypt

Discussion in 'Current News & Events' started by seashale76, May 26, 2017.

  1. seashale76

    seashale76 Orthodox Christian and Unapologetic Iconodule

    +3,988
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    Gunmen kill at least 26 Coptic Christians in central Egypt

    I'm sure few of you even care. Cue all the folks that will try to make this about the Crusades, will blame America, or will make Islam and Muslims the victims by defending that Satanic ideology, or whatever foolishness they can find to ignore this, or whatever. Most probably won't even respond to this news at all. That's how these threads go, right? More Christians were killed by Muslims just for being Christian. You and yours are doing swell wherever the heck you are, so no worries, right?
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. tampasteve

    tampasteve Lutheran Messianic Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

    +2,677
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    I also saw this terrible news this morning. Thank you for starting a thread for us to share our prayers together. I have had a heart for Coptic Christians for the last 20 years or so, I pray for them when I think of it, and for a while I prayed the Agpeya. Nothing is an excuse for terrorism, and terrorism to this magnitude is disgusting without bounds. How difficult it must be to carry the cross in Egypt, and the rest of the middle east. I am blessed to live in a more or less Christian country, so I must pray for those that are not.

    May Christ bless the souls murdered in this terrible act. May God be with them and their families now.

    Lord of the Powers be with us, for in times of distress we have no other help but You.
    Lord of the Powers, have mercy on us.
     
  3. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +31,472
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Lord have Mercy.

    May Almighty God protect our brothers and sisters in Egypt.
     
  4. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

    +16,044
    United States
    Messianic
    Married
    US-Others
    We are promised in scripture that persecution would come. It is sad to see it, but there it is.

    That is not to say that what happened should be glossed over. It is a crime against every Christian in the world and against all civility. The antichrist regime of radical islam MUST be defeated.
     
  5. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +31,472
    United States
    Christian
    Married
  6. jargew

    jargew Newbie

    125
    +87
    Christian
    Married
    I came here to post this same sad news event.
    I also have a question:

    "Why do Christians in the West not care about Christians in Egypt"?

    Sure, some do, but as a whole we are completely indifferent? Why?
    The Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria, which gave rise to the Coptic Christians, is believed to have been founded by the apostle Mark. With such a direct link to Christ, why do we not care?
    Are we so entrenched in the ideology of our particular denominations that we think other denominations are not "true Christians"? Do we not share the love of God for our brothers and sisters in Christ? I simply don't get it.

    What are your thoughts?
     
  7. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

    +8,832
    Oriental Orthodox
    Private
    They don't care about Coptic Orthodox Christians because Western Christians (Catholics, Protestants, and to some extent EO -- sorry, OP, but even though we have better relations with your church now than before, and I know that you and many other EO Christians personally do care a lot, it must be said that EO have historically attempted to use Coptic misfortunes as a pretext to try to get us to unite with them, such as the Russian ambassador at the time of HH Pope Peter VII in the 19th century slightly before the gizya tax was abolished, who offered 'protection' for the Copts if they would unite with the Russian Church and was told by HH that, no, our only protector is God) have spent centuries thinking of us as heretics and/or pagans and attempting to convert us by the worst ways, and hence whenever our churches or people are thought of at all it is generally with that in mind first, and everything else second. There is the famous story of the Presbyterian missionaries in dialogue with the bishop of Asyut in the 1860s who were asked by HG "Our people have been living with Christ for almost 2000 years; how long have your people been living with Him?" To say that it is a case of two naive/ignorant populations trying to communicate is a nice way to put it.

    I'm not going to sit here on my not-even-ethnically-Coptic Coptic high horse and say that you should all feel bad about yourselves, but come on...do you really wonder why? It's the most obvious thing in the world. From the time of the robber council of Chalcedon until the 1440s at the Council of Florence, there was essentially no contact between the Coptic Orthodox Church and the West, and the contact that started in the 15th century wasn't necessarily good (that council after all did not result in reunion, and outside of the concept of Sunday School and the printing press, the Protestants brought nothing good, either). It wasn't even until HH Pope Shenouda III (r. 1971-2012) that a Coptic Orthodox Pope met with his Roman and Constantinopolitan equivalents. How can you be expected to really care about a Church that it is in the marrow of your own churches to consider as heretical? Granted, it's still better to care than to not care (for example, I certainly do care when my Assyrian friends are murdered in Iraq, even though the Church of the East is most definitely heretical; they're still people, and in some sense fellow Christians, even if we only agree on the first two councils), but the care of the Western Christians seems very fungible in a lot of cases. They 'care', but only up until we will not sit with them and say "Yes, we are all Christians! Rah rah rah!" or whatever. You would not kiss the hands of HG Bishop Abanoub of El Mokattam after he throws you all out of the church there, Westerners, and you won't like hearing that he's right to do so, because our Christianity is Orthodox (which EO won't hear either, but nobody cares; at least they are serious), and not whatever else:



    Consider also that every single Western denomination outside of Roman Catholicism is so young in the context of the Egyptian Christian timeline that most Coptic people will probably not have heard of it. So the ignorance does not only go one way, either.

    I know it's nice to think "Hey, we're all Christians", and like I wrote above about the Nestorians, in some sense that is true, but we're not about being Christians in "some sense". We're about being Christians in the manner given to us by our fathers St. Mark the Apostle, St. Athanasius the Apostolic, St. Bishoy, St. Shenouda the Archimandrite and his disciple St. Besa, the three Macarii, St. Theodosius, St. Theophilos, our teacher St. Dioscoros, St. Severus, St. Basil, St. Cyril, St. Gregory, St. Gregory the Armenian, and so on. If you are a Western/Greco-Roman Christian, there are probably several saints in there you recognize as saints, and several you recognize as heretics, and maybe a few you don't recognize at all. So I'm happy with the ones you know, am willing to talk about the ones you don't know, and must insist that the ones you reject are still saints, and if that means that nobody is really with us because blahblahblahblah something about St. John of Damascus and the "heresy of the Egyptians" (and I call him saint here not because he is a saint for us, but because he is a saint for the Ethiopians, even though they are our daughter church; confused? Yeah, me too...can't help you there, except to say that this is Oriental Orthodoxy, and we value our autocephaly which sometimes results in situations like this), then so be it. Again, God is our only protector. We don't need anyone else.
     
  8. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

    +8,832
    Oriental Orthodox
    Private
    All that said, on a more general note, may God accept the souls of the new martyrs.
     
  9. Chesterton

    Chesterton Whats So Funny bout Peace Love and Understanding Supporter

    +16,763
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    Wow. Wish we had buttons for "unfriendly", "un-useful" and "pessimistic".
     
  10. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +31,472
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    As @dzheremi points out in a post up thread, I believe most is due to ignorance of the history in that region. I don't think it was 'willful' ignorance.
     
  11. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

    +8,832
    Oriental Orthodox
    Private
    Yeah, 26 people were murdered. I should really be friendlier and more optimistic about Western indifference to that when that's the question. Get out of here with that nonsense.
     
  12. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

    +8,832
    Oriental Orthodox
    Private
    Exactly. Thank you for understanding what I meant. Most don't know about the Coptic Orthodox Church, and what they do know is decidedly negative as it is filtered through a Western lens which views the Copts as heretics. And there is ignorance on the Coptic side, too, because of course you can't expect a people to be isolated from everyone for basically 1,000 years (and have only sporadic and often quite negative contact after that up until the modern day) and also to understand all the intricacies of various groups who didn't even exist for all that time. I believe that the bishop of Asyut's question to the Presbyterians in 1860 was an honestly curious one, just like when I attended my first Coptic Orthodox liturgy and the people found out I was Roman Catholic, they were sincerely curious to know if the Catholics "worship" St. Mary, as that is something that they had heard. Nobody is immune from just not knowing, particularly in circumstances that are not the best to be learning about one another. If all the Western people know about Copts is that Muslims are constantly martyring them in Egypt, then that's the picture they'll have, just like if all they know about Copts spiritually is that they "don't believe in Jesus' humanity and divinity", then that's the (wrong) picture they'll have. I don't believe any of this is intentional, but it is still the way it is.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
  13. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

    +3,218
    Deist
    US-Libertarian
    More murder from the religion of peace.
     
  14. Chesterton

    Chesterton Whats So Funny bout Peace Love and Understanding Supporter

    +16,763
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    What are you and Jay talking about when you say Western Christians don't care about this massacre? Do you have examples, names of people? I honestly don't know what you mean.
     
  15. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

    +8,832
    Oriental Orthodox
    Private
    I don't read Western news outlets to get news about my own Church, so I can't say what another poster might have in mind, but for me I was responding to the question of why Western Christians are indifferent about the Copts and what they go through, to the extent that they are. So I am not saying that Westerners don't care, full stop (obviously there are plenty posting on this website about it today, including myself), but to the extent that they don't care, I believe the reasons are XYZ.
     
  16. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +31,472
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Al Sisi decisively acts.

    BOOM! Egypt launches AIR STRIKES against Islamic militants in Libya over attack on Christians!

    I know you are no fan of Trump but wanted to share:

    DAxqYwwVwAIiGh6.jpg
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  17. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +31,472
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Al Sisi is cleaning house. Some IS affiliated group in Sinai was responsible for killing 15 Egyptian cops. Here's his response.

     
  18. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

    +8,832
    Oriental Orthodox
    Private
    If you ask Coptic people in the West, at least some (the ones who are not too supportive of him) will say that what Al Sisi really needs to be doing is reining in Al Azhar, since a lot of these terrorist types have gone through that very influential center of Islamic learning, like the founders of Goma'a Al Islamiyya (terrorist group in Egypt), Hizb al Tahrir, Hamas, and Al Qaeda.

    I'm not so much against what he has done so far if it can be proven that the attackers came from there (Egypt has a lot of problems with terrorists in the Sinai, no doubt), but at the same time I see their point. You can't just bomb terrorism out of existence. You have to attack it at its ideological roots.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
  19. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

    +3,218
    Deist
    US-Libertarian
    While you are bombing it out of existence.
     
  20. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

    +10,388
    United States
    Other Religion
    Legal Union (Other)
    US-Democrat
    I was actually pleased to hear that a congregation we absorbed, Atonement Lutheran, sold its property to a Coptic church and that the building will be put to good use.
     
Loading...