Gun Control

[Dave-W]

More than 800 People Have Been Shot in America Since Las Vegas
At least 25 people were accidentally shot in the week after Las Vegas, 13 of them fatally.

The site only lists instances of 3 people or more getting shot in the same event.

 

[Zoii]

Gun control advocates claim their goal is to protect people from being murdered. OK. They claim that taking away guns from everyone will prevent people from being murdered.

But the numbers simply don't bear that out.

If guns were the actual problem then the math would prove that.

America has the highest per capita gun ownership of any nation by far at 112 guns per 100 citizens. That's due to people like me who own around 20 (I've lost count).

Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia

View attachment 209807

So, the country with the highest number of guns should also be the country with the highest rate of murder, right? And if we want to prevent people from being murdered, then we should take away all the guns, right?

But America isn't the country with the highest rate of murder; not by a long shot...

That distinction goes to El Salvador with 108.64 murders per 100,000 citizens...

View attachment 209808

America is way down the list with a rate of 4.88 murders per 100,000 citizens...

View attachment 209809

Well, if the gun control advocates are correct in their theory that more guns equal more homicides, then El Salvador must have an insanely high number of guns per capita, similar to the US, right?

Nope.

Not even close. They are number 89 on the list of countries and per capita gun ownership with 5.88 guns per 100 citizens...

View attachment 209810

Hmmm...

So, if you use logic and rational thought and reasoning, then it would seem that there really isn't a correlation between more citizens owning guns and more homicides in a society. Arguing such is simply an emotional and irrational fear-based response.

I don't recall anywhere in the Bible that Jesus blamed inanimate objects or their easy availability as a cause of sin, which murder is, really. No, Jesus blamed people's hearts. So it troubles me to see so many self-identified Christians as completely ignoring scripture and the teachings of Jesus to seek to take away the rights of millions to defend themselves and their loved ones against those with murder in their hearts.

I find it hard to believe that you truly believe your logic.

As you well know murder rates are affected by factors such as a country's affluence, and unemployment rates... So impoverished developing nations with high unemployment have higher crime rates in general. Geopolitical stability is also a key issue so again war torn nation suffer higher murder rates. The USA is a developed affluent nation with a robust, relatively uncorrupted police force. You have shown that indeed your doing better than war torn nations and impoverished developing nations. The screenshot you put up places you amongst such nations which is hardly an attribute.

A better comparison is to now Compare yourself to developed affluent and stable nations.. OECD nations, Germany, UK, Japan, China, Canada, Australia.

I'm honestly not trying to flame you but to just point out that a better informed discussion would be, if the USA has much higher rates, what do you do differently to those nations.

Making comparisons the way you are is like saying... Hey I'm really strong as you stand in a yard of young school kids. Stand amongst your peers and if you still look good then you have every right to pat yourselves on the shoulder.

Personally I think you have a safe society but you do have a gun problem. It's very embedded in your country's culture so I don't believe gun restrictions will be possible, and I suspect your country recognises that, accepts it, and just gets on with life.

 

[Servant68]

As you well know murder rates are affected by factors such as a country's affluence, and unemployment rates... So impoverished developing nations with high unemployment have higher crime rates in general. Geopolitical stability is also a key issue so again war torn nation suffer higher murder rates. The USA is a developed affluent nation with a robust, relatively uncorrupted police force. You have shown that indeed your doing better than war torn nations and impoverished developing nations. The screenshot you put up places you amongst such nations which is hardly an attribute.

A better comparison is to now Compare yourself to developed affluent and stable nations.. OECD nations, Germany, UK, Japan, China, Canada, Australia.

I believe I mentioned Australia and Austria, which are both developed, affluent and stable nations. One has more guns per citizen than the other yet a lower murder rate.

I see you chose to ignore those comparisons.

The point of my post was not that America was perfect, but that the premise that gun control, or less guns in a society, results in lower murder rates.

America has it's highest number of murders in areas with the strictest gun control. Gun control does not work. Period.

 

[SkyWriting]

The site only lists instances of 3 people or more getting shot in the same event.

So 797 snubbed then because the volume of blood was too low?.

 

[Zoii]

I believe I mentioned Australia and Austria, which are both developed, affluent and stable nations. One has more guns per citizen than the other yet a lower murder rate.

I see you chose to ignore those comparisons.

The point of my post was not that America was perfect, but that the premise that gun control, or less guns in a society, results in lower murder rates.

America has it's highest number of murders in areas with the strictest gun control. Gun control does not work. Period.

I didn't see you mention Austria and Australia in the post i responded to, but if you had then you'll know that USA compares adversely to those countries...low gun levels in Austria and Australia when compared to USA... higher gun murders in the USA....simple.... But Like I said - I accept this is really about that you want to keep your guns so this debate is meaningless....you will keep them and life will go on. I wont repond more because it feels like I am flaming to re-state the case.

 

[SkyWriting]

America has it's highest number of murders in areas with the strictest gun control. Gun control does not work. Period.

So that would mean that areas with zero gun crime
have not created laws to limit guns use. I find that
sensible.

 

[Dave-W]

So 797 snubbed then because the volume of blood was too low?.

Notice the title; MASS shooting.

 

[SkyWriting]

Las Vegas mass shooting only lasted 11 minutes. Knowing where he was would not have ended it in 11 minutes or less.

Yes, if the hotel locates a shooter accurately they can (likely will soon) have a
response that is very fast. In the vegas case, even before the killing began.

 

[SkyWriting]

Notice the title; MASS shooting.

Because the volume of blood was too low then.
Got it.

 

[SkyWriting]

The Las Vegas mass shooter owned his guns legally and even owned only legal extensions and ammunition for them yet he shot and killed 58 people and caused the wounding and/or injury of another 500 people. Even if every last one of those 500 and more people was carrying a holstered gun they would still have been shot and the shooter would still have been safe. The truth is that people only rarely carry a gun ready to "stop the bad guys". That's just a fantasy.

But if they could quickly locate the shooter, that would make it easier to hide from the gunfire.

 

[Phil 1:21]

I am super excited that you're convinced. That was way easier than expected!

Well of course. I was all prepared to dig in my heels with logic, reason, and facts. But how could those things possibly stand up to the kryptonite of "GingerBeer says it's stupid"?

 

[GingerBeer]

Yes, if the hotel locates a shooter accurately they can (likely will soon) have a
response that is very fast. In the vegas case, even before the killing began.

So your detection method foretells the future so they can kill the shooter before he shoots?

 

[GingerBeer]

But if they could quickly locate the shooter, that would make it easier to hide from the gunfire.

That's absolutely crazy

Your propose method isn't going to be a phone app or something that the crowds have. Be realistic please

 

[GingerBeer]

Well of course. I was all prepared to dig in my heels with logic, reason, and facts. But how could those things possibly stand up to the kryptonite of "GingerBeer says it's stupid"?

Quite right too. Nothing can withstand my penetrating analysis. I am as smart as Donald eh?

 

[Phil 1:21]

Quite right too. Nothing can withstand my penetrating analysis. I am as smart as Donald eh?

Not sure seeing as I could never understand his accent, what with all the lisping and quacking. Mickey always seemed the smarter one in that group.

 

[GingerBeer]

Not sure seeing as I could never understand his accent, what with all the lisping and quacking. Mickey always seemed the smarter one in that group.

But Micky isn't the president of the USA. Donald is. It's such a pity that he was selected by such corrupt and unrepresentative swill at the electoral college meeting.

 

[Phil 1:21]

But Micky isn't the president of the USA. Donald is. It's such a pity that he was selected by such corrupt and unrepresentative swill at the electoral college meeting.

Trump? Oh, I thought you meant Duck.

 

[GingerBeer]

Trump? Oh, I thought you meant Duck.

Not a lot to differentiate them on an intellectual level.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Not a lot to differentiate them on an intellectual level.

For a moment there I was tempted to reply with a query about whether or not you considered that a Christian response, but then I remembered the doctrine of Sola Gingera.

 

[GingerBeer]

For a moment there I was tempted to reply with a query about whether or not you considered that a Christian response, but then I remembered the doctrine of Sola Gingera.

It's quite christian. Honest