Gun Control Debate

[RDKirk]

Just curious. Do those of you who carry guns abide by other far simpler and less dangerous safety precautions? Like wearing masks and getting vaccinated?

I know many conservatives don't.

How can one be so concerned about being one of the 22 in 100,000 people getting killed with guns (very low although much higher than other developed countries) and not take simple cautions to protect against serious illness?

Yes, I do.

When I was active duty military, I had to adhere constantly to all kinds of safety precautions, including wearing masks and other safety gear (ever have to wear MOPP4 chemwarfare gear for 8 hours a day in the summer?). And we got shots out the wazoo.

Still do.

 

[Divide]

Just curious. Do those of you who carry guns abide by other far simpler and less dangerous safety precautions? Like wearing masks and getting vaccinated?

I know many conservatives don't.

How can one be so concerned about being one of the 22 in 100,000 people getting killed with guns (very low although much higher than other developed countries) and not take simple cautions to protect against serious illness?

I used to carry pepper spray in addition to the gun. Sometimes I carry handcuffs. But being prepared for a worst case scenario means the enemy will have weapons most likely. I carry a kife but not for defense.

It's true that I did not get vaccinated for covid. But these are the end times and we can't really trust the government anymore. So felt the thing to do is have faith in God that it would not come near my dwelling (Psalm 91). I've called it the Jesus vaccination but it was ust faith. I hardly ever have gotten sick except when I was a kid. Scripture tells us to look to the Lord our Healer and not to the world, so I did and made it through it. I would wear a mask in public. Not because I thought I needed it, but out of respect for others.

 

[Fantine]

I trust that if I meet God halfway and lead a reasonably prudent life i will not be one of the 22 out of 100,000 people who are shot to death.

Carry a gun all the time for a .022% risk? And lower for those who lead prudent lives?

It is not worth it to me to do so, violating my principles and conscience.

 

[Divide]

I trust that if I meet God halfway and lead a reasonably prudent life i will not be one of the 22 out of 100,000 people who are shot to death.

Carry a gun all the time for a .022% risk? And lower for those who lead prudent lives?

It is not worth it to me to do so, violating my principles and conscience.

Well said. We should always listen to our conscience and the principles that we have in our heart. There is that scripture though that says those who live by the sword die by the sword, so it is immediately obvious to me that there is a level of faith in God that precludes any gun on earth. And I envy that. I don't really live by the sword like I used to. But they put a gun in my hand when I was 6 and made me a hunter too! They named me the wealthy guardian so that makes me feel like I may still have a fight or two in front of me in life. That sort of scares me cuz it's somethng that I don't want to do. I'm still waiting on the wealthy part of my namesake too, lol!

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

Guess playing pranks on concealed carriers isn't all that fun when they shoot you...

According to his family members, Cook approached Colie inside the food court at the Dulles Town Center mall on Sunday while others filmed the encounter. Cook was trying to prank Colie with Google Translate, a smartphone app, they said.

"He was putting a phone in somebody's face, and it was saying things in another language - I don't know what it was saying - and the gentleman slapped it away twice, and the third time, he shot him," said Michael Cook, Tanner Cook's grandfather.

YouTube prank gone awry led to shooting at Virginia mall, victim's family says

Tanner Cook, a YouTube jokester with more than 40,000 followers, was at a Norther Virginia mall filming his latest bit this weekend when the stranger he was pranking suddenly shot him in the abdomen, Cook's relatives said Wednesday. Cook, 21, is recovering in the hospital after surgeons removed...

www.yahoo.com

 

[rturner76]

I think I kind of get it about pacifists but am not really sure. And I certainly was not given pacifism in my heart as a desire. The etymology of my name means , wealthy guardian. And my dad stuck a gun in my hand when I was like, 6 or so? I can't hardly remember a time when I gun was not within reach!

And you were properly educated on gun safety and thus had respect for the lethality of firearms. Hiding all of the guns would have made them much more fascinating. You were taught that a firearm is a tool and not a toy.

I always understood that the real responsibility for me as a husband and father was to provide sustenence and security.

And that is where the pacifist way of handling things falls flat. It is one thing to decide to lay down your own life as a pacifist, but I truly believe one should not impose that philosophy on their wife and children. We ARE called to protect our family I believe.

We can't let them down so we have to be ready. To accept the reins back and drive the team.

Again, I don't think there is anything in scripture or tradition that goes against what you are saying here. When we take on a family, we take on the responsibility for their safety and security.

And so I began to teach the kids about them because you can't keep a child safe from guns by not owning them because they WILL be at their friends house when he pulls their dad's pistol out of his sock drawer. They have to know how to react in such a situation.

I agree that education on gun safety and their deadliness is the best way to instill respect for their deadly potential. Kids who are uneducated about the seriousness of their discharge will be more likely to see the forearm as a toy, not a tool. (I think I's repeating myself, sorry)

By age 8 I trusted them to walk behind me with a loaded rifle while hunting. And the momma? Oh, momma, you have to go to the range to? We have two kids? How can I watch both kids at once? She had to go! Lol! She used to complain at me for carrying a big pistol all the time. But there was 3 or 4 times when she was like, Do you have a pistol on you? Take over Husband! I don't feel safe! Yes dear, I'm packing, don't worry!

As I say, I see nothing sinful about a man protecting the family that he vowed to take care of and I don't think it's quite right for a pacifist to not protect their family for their need to be righteous in the eyes of God. In that situation, I think it's more righteous to protect your family members from harm.

So I don't think we disagree on the topic, I just think there is room in Christianity for single men or women to be pacifists

I used to have a locker full of guns Then I started getting more and more paranoid that someone would find out I had them and try to rob me. It ended up giving me more peace of mind to know that nobody would be taking one of my firearms and using it for a crime.. It's a judgment call that everyone has to make for themselves. The way you were raised I can see that it would be perfectly comfortable to have firearms in the house.

It was tough to give them up I admit. I felt totally naked and exposed

 

[rturner76]

"He was putting a phone in somebody's face, and it was saying things in another language - I don't know what it was saying - and the gentleman slapped it away twice, and the third time, he shot him," said Michael Cook, Tanner Cook's grandfather.

I haven't read the story but it seems to me like somebody took the law in their own hands. I see how the gunman would have been made uncomfortable or was embarrassed but I don't think the prankster should have paid with his life. I know there are people have dealt with that made me want to pull out and plug "em but incidents like that make people challenge permits to carry..

 

[JacksBratt]

And I don't doubt that is the correct translation. I think Jesus is saying to lay your life down for your friends. I can't say if "laying your life down" means martyr yourself or defending your people by killing. In an ideal world, Christ would command that we disable an attacker (pepper spray, bean bag shotgun rounds, and other non-lethal ways of defending your family.

I really feel conflicted about this. On the one hand, Jesus is all loving all forgiving "Forgive them for they know not what they do." Then there is a passage where he says his apostles will need a sword. So it's kind of like are we pacifists and refuse to kill or do we kill in the name of Christ. Muslims have no conflict when it comes to killing in God's/Allahs name. I wonder if we should separate ourselves from those who kill in the name of God.

I understand the conundrum...

However..do you think that Jesus would condemn you if you protected your wife, kids, mother, sister, friend.. from an armed person.... if you had to kill them to do it?

I don't know for sure.... but I have heard it stated lots of times.. That you do NOT want to injure a person as they will turn around and sue you. Or, you may have to pay for all their medical fees and support them for life.

My feeling is that Christ wants you to accept the fact that you will be persecuted for His sake. You may even have to be quiet and say nothing bad towards someone in an argument. Even to the point of taking a hit and not escalating a situation.

However, if your life is threatened.. or someone else's... I don't think Christ is going to fault you for stopping that person even if it requires their being killed.

I don't know if I would ever want the "Castle Law" in Canada... But, I do rest easy knowing that I can protect myself, loved ones, friends and property with lethal force... if required and not be imprisoned.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

Again, I don't think there is anything in scripture or tradition that goes against what you are saying here. When we take on a family, we take on the responsibility for their safety and security.

As I say, I see nothing sinful about a man protecting the family that he vowed to take care of and I don't think it's quite right for a pacifist to not protect their family for their need to be righteous in the eyes of God. In that situation, I think it's more righteous to protect your family members from harm.

Entire families were willing to be martyrs.

Then the cruel Emperor Hadrian ordered that they be thrown alive into a red-hot brass bull, and Saint Eustáthios, his wife Theopistē, and their sons Agapios and Theopistos suffered martyrdom. Before being placed inside the bull, Saint Eustathios prayed, “Grant, O Lord, Thy grace to our relics, and grant a place in Thy Kingdom to all who call upon us, Though they call upon us when in danger on a river, or on the sea, we entreat Thee to come to their aid.”

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

I haven't read the story but it seems to me like somebody took the law in their own hands. I see how the gunman would have been made uncomfortable or was embarrassed but I don't think the prankster should have paid with his life. I know there are people have dealt with that made me want to pull out and plug "em but incidents like that make people challenge permits to carry..

The prankster survived. The shooter was arrested.

 

[RDKirk]

Guess playing pranks on concealed carriers isn't all that fun when they shoot you...

According to his family members, Cook approached Colie inside the food court at the Dulles Town Center mall on Sunday while others filmed the encounter. Cook was trying to prank Colie with Google Translate, a smartphone app, they said.

"He was putting a phone in somebody's face, and it was saying things in another language - I don't know what it was saying - and the gentleman slapped it away twice, and the third time, he shot him," said Michael Cook, Tanner Cook's grandfather.

YouTube prank gone awry led to shooting at Virginia mall, victim's family says

Tanner Cook, a YouTube jokester with more than 40,000 followers, was at a Norther Virginia mall filming his latest bit this weekend when the stranger he was pranking suddenly shot him in the abdomen, Cook's relatives said Wednesday. Cook, 21, is recovering in the hospital after surgeons removed...

www.yahoo.com

The guy probably thought he was about to be mugged. Apparently it wasn't Cook alone, but Cook with several other young men. It's a pretty common mugging technique for one man to hold the victim's attention with some silliness (asking for a light, asking for directions, asking for money) while the other pulls a gun.

He was likely carrying a gun because he'd been mugged before. That's why these pranks are dangerous...you don't know what the subject of your prank has been through.

 

[Fantine]

And you were properly educated on gun safety and thus had respect for the lethality of firearms. Hiding all of the guns would have made them much more fascinating. You were taught that a firearm is a tool and not a toy.


And that is where the pacifist way of handling things falls flat. It is one thing to decide to lay down your own life as a pacifist, but I truly believe one should not impose that philosophy on their wife and children. We ARE called to protect our family I believe.

Again, I don't think there is anything in scripture or tradition that goes against what you are saying here. When we take on a family, we take on the responsibility for their safety and security.

I agree that education on gun safety and their deadliness is the best way to instill respect for their deadly potential. Kids who are uneducated about the seriousness of their discharge will be more likely to see the forearm as a toy, not a tool. (I think I's repeating myself, sorry)

As I say, I see nothing sinful about a man protecting the family that he vowed to take care of and I don't think it's quite right for a pacifist to not protect their family for their need to be righteous in the eyes of God. In that situation, I think it's more righteous to protect your family members from harm.

So I don't think we disagree on the topic, I just think there is room in Christianity for single men or women to be pacifists

I used to have a locker full of guns Then I started getting more and more paranoid that someone would find out I had them and try to rob me. It ended up giving me more peace of mind to know that nobody would be taking one of my firearms and using it for a crime.. It's a judgment call that everyone has to make for themselves. The way you were raised I can see that it would be perfectly comfortable to have firearms in the house.

It was tough to give them up I admit. I felt totally naked and exposed

What does that say for the fathers in numerous other countries who have chosen a wiser path regarding guns? They protect their families without guns because their nations do not celebrate violence.

And in that case, aren't you saying fathers should own guns because our country is flooded with them, and because we live under this constitutional curse we need to be armed?

Ugh.

 

[rturner76]

Then the cruel Emperor Hadrian ordered that they be thrown alive into a red-hot brass bull, and Saint Eustáthios, his wife Theopistē, and their sons Agapios and Theopistos suffered martyrdom. Before being placed inside the bull, Saint Eustathios prayed, “Grant, O Lord, Thy grace to our relics, and grant a place in Thy Kingdom to all who call upon us, Though they call upon us when in danger on a river, or on the sea, we entreat Thee to come to their aid.”

Yes, they actually made killing Christians quite a spectacle. They also tried to blame the great Roman fire on the wrath of the Gods for tolerating Christian worshipers. But it worked against the because as people saw these brave Christians sting tall in martyrdom, even more people were moved to conversion to the one true faith.

 

[rturner76]

What does that say for the fathers in numerous other countries who have chosen a wiser path regarding guns? They protect their families without guns because their nations do not celebrate violence

It is a much more peaceful way of life when I think about war torn countries that have a fraction of the gun violence because the gun culture is different.

And in that case, aren't you saying fathers should own guns because our country is flooded with them, and because we live under this constitutional curse we need to be armed

That is exactly what I am saying. There are already enough firearms to arm every man woman and child. So literally anyone could be in possession of a firearm. I can understand anyone who would fear for the lives of their families. Especially with teenagers and home invaders out looking to prove how tough they are.

It's like the cat is already out of the bag with gun violence and we all need to take cover.

 

[rturner76]

The prankster survived. The shooter was arrested.

Were they charged with anything or was the homeowner?

 

[dogs4thewin]

I trust that if I meet God halfway and lead a reasonably prudent life i will not be one of the 22 out of 100,000 people who are shot to death.

Carry a gun all the time for a .022% risk? And lower for those who lead prudent lives?

It is not worth it to me to do so, violating my principles and conscience.

Which is fine as there is no law requiring all people who legally can to carry, but that does not mean that you tell other people not to have guns or that you freak out at the idea of it. I would carry if my motor skills and eyesight would allow for it, but a moderate case of CP mean neither does. However, I am also glad to know when someone I am with is carrying ( and I know people off the top of my head who do), but that does not mean that I refuse to go out if those people are not with me ( which is good because they usually are not. You neve did answr my earlier question.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

Now we have another story of the police going the the wrong address, the homeowner answers the door holding a gun and the officers shoot and kill him. So you can defend yourself unless its the police who have screwed up, then it's your fault for defending yourself.

"Once on scene, officers mistakenly approached" the wrong address and knocked on the door. The statement from the state public safety authority said the officers identified themselves as police, but no one answered.

The statement said officer body camera video shows that as the officers backed away from house, the homeowner opened the screen door armed with a handgun. One or multiple officers fired at least one round, striking the homeowner, who police identified as 52-year-old Robert Dotson.

New Mexico police responding to domestic violence call visit wrong address, fatally shoot resident inside

The New Mexico State Police said a resident of Farmington was fatally shot by police after officers visited the wrong address in response to a domestic violence call.

www.foxnews.com

 

[rturner76]

And in that case, aren't you saying fathers should own guns because our country is flooded with them, and because we live under this constitutional curse we need to be armed?

No, I am saying that it is up to the individual's conscience whether to be a pacifist or to defend their family with violence. I can understand both stances. I think people have a right to defend themselves but a practitioner of nonviolence would lay down their lives rather than take a life.

 

[Eschatologist]

Now we have another story of the police going the the wrong address, the homeowner answers the door holding a gun and the officers shoot and kill him. So you can defend yourself unless its the police who have screwed up, then it's your fault for defending yourself.

"Once on scene, officers mistakenly approached" the wrong address and knocked on the door. The statement from the state public safety authority said the officers identified themselves as police, but no one answered.

The statement said officer body camera video shows that as the officers backed away from house, the homeowner opened the screen door armed with a handgun. One or multiple officers fired at least one round, striking the homeowner, who police identified as 52-year-old Robert Dotson.

New Mexico police responding to domestic violence call visit wrong address, fatally shoot resident inside

The New Mexico State Police said a resident of Farmington was fatally shot by police after officers visited the wrong address in response to a domestic violence call.

www.foxnews.com

That's a problem with law enforcement, not guns.

A cause that both the left and right should rally around is holding police more accountable. The George Floyd situation could have been that moment of unity, but activists ruined it by pretending police brutality is a racial thing. It's not. It's an abuse of authority thing that affects plenty of white people in addition to black people (and others).

Disarming the public doesn't fix this issue and would only allow the police to be even more abusive.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

That's a problem with law enforcement, not guns.

A cause that both the left and right should rally around is holding police more accountable. The George Floyd situation could have been that moment of unity, but activists ruined it by pretending police brutality is a racial thing. It's not. It's an abuse of authority thing that affects plenty of white people in addition to black people (and others).

Disarming the public doesn't fix this issue and would only allow the police to be even more abusive.

So if I answer a knock with a gun I get shot by the police, if I answer without a gun, I get shot by the drunk neighbor. Got it.