GUILTY

[Hans Blaster]

This is the perfect avenue for people who like names and labels without any deep understanding of the actual laws, what’s really going on. It’s for people who like to stick with their obvious biased thinking .

Care to offer a contribution to the thread instead of vague accusations?

 

[Pommer]

This is the perfect avenue for people who like names and labels without any deep understanding of the actual laws, what’s really going on. It’s for people who like to stick with their obvious biased thinking .

What else ya got?

 

[BCP1928]

Big difference. Tom Sawyer is a fable and the U.S. Government Accountability Office is not.

I've got a US Government map of the Mississippi, that makes my fable true, too.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I've got a US Government map of the Mississippi, that makes my fable true, too.

Does it run unvexed to the sea?

 

[stevevw]

The actual numbers are relevant. You are the one saying they are not because the Biben administration has a sinister agenda.

No I am saying if you want to look at the numbers, the data you have to look at all the date and not what you want to present. Thats when it becomes an agenda.

 

[stevevw]

I've got a US Government map of the Mississippi, that makes my fable true, too.

Then your make a false equivalence. The evidence is contained within the U.S. Government Accountability Office data. Its not making claims about another event such as Tom Sawyers. Its not reliant on that.

So the same logic applied would be the evidence is within the map, it has nothing to do with another truth about some fable. So when we look at your map of the Mississippi its self evident as we can actually find those places, that river in real life. Just like we can find the data in real life economics of the US economy and what the data is showing.

 

[stevevw]

This is the perfect avenue for people who like names and labels without any deep understanding of the actual laws, what’s really going on. It’s for people who like to stick with their obvious biased thinking .

This is true in some ways. Labels and names have become the yardstick of what is truth. Its classic Post Modernism where literature. language, the narrative determine whats real.

That is what we have seen with cancel culture over words in recent years. A person can literally lose their job for saying the wrong words or expressing language thats deemed wrong in some way according to some PC interpretation.

So of course the word Felon linked with Trump is like gold to the Woke Left who play word games. I guarentee come election time there will be plent of signs and memes with 'Trump is a Felon or 'Trump the Felon' coming out. The aim is to reduce Trump to Felon and nothing else. When all else fails they can bring out the word games.

But as we know words don't create reality and in the end the truth comes out when we actually live that reality out. People come to know whats really going on, get to know all the facts, all the views and experiences and find there is a whole lot more to what is happening besides the words being labelled for that person or issue.

The thing is when ideologues overuse and misuse these words and narratives people see through them and it actually exposes the ideologues disconnection with reality and how they are trying to manipulate things and are themselves pushing a certain agenda on others. One contained in the misuse of the words and narratives they try to recreate.

 

[BCP1928]

No I am saying if you want to look at the numbers, the data you have to look at all the date and not what you want to present. Thats when it becomes an agenda.

I didn't present any data. I'm just pointing out that the data you presented doesn't support your agenda. Several other people have as well.

 

[BCP1928]

This is true in some ways. Labels and names have become the yardstick of what is truth. Its classic Post Modernism where literature. language, the narrative determine whats real.

That's always been true for Christianity. Now you've got competition. LOL!

That is what we have seen with cancel culture over words in recent years. A person can literally lose their job for saying the wrong words or expressing language thats deemed wrong in some way according to some PC interpretation.

So of course the word Felon linked with Trump is like gold to the Woke Left who play word games. I guarentee come election time there will be plent of signs and memes with 'Trump is a Felon or 'Trump the Felon' coming out. The aim is to reduce Trump to Felon and nothing else. When all else fails they can bring out the word games.

We know who Trump is, he was never shy about promoting himself. Trump's conviction doesn't teach us anything new about him. His Christian supporters are sure putting on a good show about it. But their egregious behavior confirms what we thought about them, too. Deplorable.

But as we know words don't create reality and in the end the truth comes out when we actually live that reality out. People come to know whats really going on, get to know all the facts, all the views and experiences and find there is a whole lot more to what is happening besides the words being labelled for that person or issue.

The thing is when ideologues overuse and misuse these words and narratives people see through them and it actually exposes the ideologues disconnection with reality and how they are trying to manipulate things and are themselves pushing a certain agenda on others. One contained in the misuse of the words and narratives they try to recreate.

 

[Hans Blaster]

So of course the word Felon linked with Trump is like gold to the Woke Left who play word games.

the "Woke Left" likes to play word games and label stuff?

There you go again. No part of what you call the "Woke Left" calls itself "the Woke Left" (most don't even use the term "Left"). It is *you* (and the people you read, I'm not claiming your label obsession in self-generated) who keep insisting on applying political labels like "Woke" to stuff just before you attack it.

As for "Felon", a felon is a person who has been convicted of a felony. Trump *is* a felon. Trump is also a father, a billionaire, a rapist, a tax cheat, a politician, etc. Any one of those can be used against him politically.

I guarentee come election time there will be plent of signs and memes with 'Trump is a Felon or 'Trump the Felon' coming out. The aim is to reduce Trump to Felon and nothing else. When all else fails they can bring out the word games.

Given the aberrant nature of Trump's criminal status (including having other, even more serious crimes facing him), they would be foolish not remind the American voters how aberrant he is. It is part of the story and his disregard for the rule of law, just as his authoritarianism is.

But as we know words don't create reality and in the end the truth comes out when we actually live that reality out. People come to know whats really going on, get to know all the facts, all the views and experiences and find there is a whole lot more to what is happening besides the words being labelled for that person or issue.

If you really feel this way, perhaps, you could spend less time trying to define things to what you want to define them to in the post-modern style.

 

[christian-surfer]

the "Woke Left" likes to play word games and label stuff?

There you go again. No part of what you call the "Woke Left" calls itself "the Woke Left" (most don't even use the term "Left"). It is *you* (and the people you read, I'm not claiming your label obsession in self-generated) who keep insisting on applying political labels like "Woke" to stuff just before you attack it.

As for "Felon", a felon is a person who has been convicted of a felony. Trump *is* a felon. Trump is also a father, a billionaire, a rapist, a tax cheat, a politician, etc. Any one of those can be used against him politically.

Given the aberrant nature of Trump's criminal status (including having other, even more serious crimes facing him), they would be foolish not remind the American voters how aberrant he is. It is part of the story and his disregard for the rule of law, just as his authoritarianism is.

If you really feel this way, perhaps, you could spend less time trying to define things to what you want to define them to in the post-modern style.

The term felon is used not just to describe someone but as supposed evidence of wrongdoing without any deep analysis of what is going on with the supposed justice system.

 

[Brihaha]

The term felon is used not just to describe someone but as supposed evidence of wrongdoing without any deep analysis of what is going on with the supposed justice system.

That's why I prefer the moniker of convicted criminal. It describes both the criminal and the proof thereof. The trial and conviction is chock full of deep analysis as well as evidence.

 

[Pommer]

The term felon is used not just to describe someone but as supposed evidence of wrongdoing without any deep analysis of what is going on with the supposed justice system.

Are we to surmise that you’ve had this burning desire to do a deep analysis of the “supposed justice system” before May 30, 2024?

 

[DaisyDay]

I find it interesting how everyone wants to jump in and defend Bidens economic record as being relevant but when pushed suddenly its not relevant anymore.

But your right. Lets get back to the only relevant issue, Trumps a felon. End of thread. Lets all go home.

Donald's guilt is relevant to THIS thread.

 

[stevevw]

I didn't present any data. I'm just pointing out that the data you presented doesn't support your agenda. Several other people have as well.

You did present data in the form of claiming that theirs no problem with deficits and that everything is rosey under Biden economically. Which implies that the current debt levels are fine.

 

[Hans Blaster]

The term felon is used not just to describe someone but as supposed evidence of wrongdoing without any deep analysis of what is going on with the supposed justice system.

It's reporting a *fact*. Trump was convicted of a (couple dozen) felony. That's what a felon is. The wrong doing is marked by the guilty verdict.

 

[stevevw]

the "Woke Left" likes to play word games and label stuff?

There you go again. No part of what you call the "Woke Left" calls itself "the Woke Left" (most don't even use the term "Left"). It is *you* (and the people you read, I'm not claiming your label obsession in self-generated) who keep insisting on applying political labels like "Woke" to stuff just before you attack it.

Like I said that is what modern day society calls the ideology of the Left. In fact it is the Lefts use and naming of it applied to their ideology is what gives it life and makes it a taget.

You can define it as something else if you want but what ever you want to call it its a real phenomena that is happening. We have evidence of it through the policies of the Left and the PC culture and the narratives that have been pushed onto society by its agents..

In fact it has real economic consequences just look at Disney, Budlight and Gillette for example.

As for "Felon", a felon is a person who has been convicted of a felony. Trump *is* a felon. Trump is also a father, a billionaire, a rapist, a tax cheat, a politician, etc. Any one of those can be used against him politically.

OK I didn't realise Trump was also a convicted rapist. I would have thought that was also a felon and yet this was Trumps first conviction.

Given the aberrant nature of Trump's criminal status (including having other, even more serious crimes facing him), they would be foolish not remind the American voters how aberrant he is. It is part of the story and his disregard for the rule of law, just as his authoritarianism is.

Thats fair enough. Its when that becomes the only means to defeat an opponent that it becomes the problem. The only crime he has faced has been the one he was convicted for. I thought the Rule of law was 'innocent until proven guilty'. The witch hunt over Trump by the Left is blantantly clear and reeks of weaponising the system to get Trump.

If you now going to accuse Trump of being guilty to other crimes he has not been charged with then that only supports my point that the Left are willing to undermine Rule of Law to get Trump and therefore weaken Rule of Law as a whole.

If you really feel this way, perhaps, you could spend less time trying to define things to what you want to define them to in the post-modern style.

Such as. I am just reading the current political climate. Just like we do for any period of time. Its a fact that within the last 20 odd years society has become more ideologically based rather than dealing in facts and reality and that this is being thrust upon people.

 

[BCP1928]

You did present data in the form of claiming that theirs no problem with deficits and that everything is rosey under Biden economically. Which implies that the current debt levels are fine.

Did I? Did I claim that there was no problem with the deficit? Of course there is a problem with the deficit. But I see no sense at all in the apocalyptic conclusions you have drawn from it.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Like I said that is what modern day society calls the ideology of the Left. In fact it is the Lefts use and naming of it applied to their ideology is what gives it life and makes it a taget.

You can define it as something else if you want but what ever you want to call it its a real phenomena that is happening. We have evidence of it through the policies of the Left and the PC culture and the narratives that have been pushed onto society by its agents..

In fact it has real economic consequences just look at Disney, Budlight and Gillette for example.

Not relevant to the tread.

OK I didn't realise Trump was also a convicted rapist. I would have thought that was also a felon and yet this was Trumps first conviction.

I didn't say he was "convicted" of being a rapist anymore than he was "convicted" of being a father.

Thats fair enough. Its when that becomes the only means to defeat an opponent that it becomes the problem.

But that's not what is happening.

The only crime he has faced has been the one he was convicted for.

Yep, on judgement he is 0 for 1 (100% conviction rate).

I thought the Rule of law was 'innocent until proven guilty'.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is how courts treat defendants. That's why Trump is not in jail right now. If he was presumed to be guilty of the crimes charged for trials not finished, he *need* to be in jail.

The Rule of Law is more than just "innocent until proven guilty".

The witch hunt over Trump by the Left is blantantly clear and reeks of weaponising the system to get Trump.

But it is not a witch hunt.

If you now going to accuse Trump of being guilty to other crimes he has not been charged with then that only supports my point that the Left are willing to undermine Rule of Law to get Trump and therefore weaken Rule of Law as a whole.

It isn't.

Such as. I am just reading the current political climate. Just like we do for any period of time. Its a fact that within the last 20 odd years society has become more ideologically based rather than dealing in facts and reality and that this is being thrust upon people.

Woke this, woke that. It's practically all you talk about.

 

[stevevw]

Did I? Did I claim that there was no problem with the deficit? Of course there is a problem with the deficit. But I see no sense at all in the apocalyptic conclusions you have drawn from it.

What, the article I linked was an independent assessment of what maintaining and increasing the high level of debt will negatively effect the economy and stability of the US. Its certainly no small matter.

As the debt ration increases over time it becomes more crucial and a threat to instability. Certainly the US like other western nations are rapidly increasing the debt to GDP ration which is going in the opposite direction of warding off that instability.

People cannot afford to put a roof over their head, regular food on the table and the high cost of energy for the first time in a long time if not ever due to the ideologically based policies of politicians. As far as I remember the working class has always been able to afford these things.