GUILTY

[BCP1928]

The numbers vs what most people are actually experiencing in real life.

Depends on what you mean by "most people."

 

[Hans Blaster]

Oh ok so we can keep the thread going, just keep repeating he is a felon, speak of nothing else until the sentencing as all else is irrelevant.

Nah. This thread is boring and repetitive. We've seen all the excuses, and there is no evidence that the conviction makes him stronger (the two subjects of the thread beyond the announcement of a verdict), in fact the felons numbers have gone down.

\thread

 

[NxNW]

What relevant numbers,

Unemployment, GDP, corporate profits, stock market, etc.

 

[NxNW]

The numbers vs what most people are actually experiencing in real life.

The numbers represent reality, not anecdotes and feelings.

 

[ozso]

The numbers represent reality, not anecdotes and feelings.

I'm not sure which that reminds me more of, 1984 or Brave New World.

 

[BCP1928]

I'm not sure which that reminds me more of, 1984 or Brave New World.

There is an alternative explanation, namely, that the pinch being felt by the working class may have some other cause than Biden attempting to wreck the economy so he can install totalitarian socialism.

 

[ozso]

There is an alternative explanation, namely, that the pinch being felt by the working class may have some other cause than Biden attempting to wreck the economy so he can install totalitarian socialism.

I don't think Biden was attempting that, that's just the way 'Bidenomics' turned out. And of course since the Biden administration named it 'Bidenomics', Biden supporters have to pretend the economy is in good shape.

 

[Pommer]

I mean when Trump won many Democrates were actually crying and in shock.

Conversely, when Trump won in ‘16, many Republicans took this anomaly to be a “miracle” (thus Trump was divinely “ordained” to be President) and the only way God’s chosen could have lost in ‘20 was if the GOP was so incompetent so as to allow the Democrats “steal the election”.

And we see another reason not to mix faith with politics.

 

[BCP1928]

I don't think Biden was attempting that, that's just the way 'Bidenomics' turned out. And of course since the Biden administration named it 'Bidenomics', Biden supporters have to pretend the economy is in good shape.

That's because the economy is in good shape, except for large numbers of the working class. Manufacturing is up, employment is up, inflation is finally slowing, corporations are making record profits...

 

[stevevw]

Unemployment, GDP, corporate profits, stock market, etc.

Actually those figures do lie. They are not as good as you think. They mask other underlying problems. The first 1/4 of 2024 was downfor GDP and much of the economic growth has been fueled by consumer spending which is mostly from credit spending. Consumer spending is now slowing as people run out of credit and have to now service those debts.

The economy is still in stall mode and not out of the woods yet. Much of that initial growth that Biden overseen came from the injection of funds into the economy from post Covid through Government welfare and other boosts to kickstart the economy after Covid.

The real test will be when the US has to address its debt in raising the ceiling again. This is when they will have to face the reality that debt is getting out of hand and the market will respond accordingly.

 

[NxNW]

I don't think Biden was attempting that, that's just the way 'Bidenomics' turned out. And of course since the Biden administration named it 'Bidenomics', Biden supporters have to pretend the economy is in good shape.

No need to pretend when the economy is in great shape.

 

[NxNW]

Actually those figures do lie. They are not as good as you think.

Which figures?

They mask other underlying problems. The first 1/4 of 2024 was downfor GDP and much of the economic growth has been fueled by consumer spending which is mostly from credit spending. Consumer spending is now slowing as people run out of credit and have to now service those debts.

I thought you had something related to the economy to discuss.

The real test will be when the US has to address its debt in raising the ceiling again. This is when they will have to face the reality that debt is getting out of hand and the market will respond accordingly.

As we know, deficits don't matter.

 

[BCP1928]

Actually those figures do lie. They are not as good as you think. They mask other underlying problems. The first 1/4 of 2024 was downfor GDP and much of the economic growth has been fueled by consumer spending which is mostly from credit spending. Consumer spending is now slowing as people run out of credit and have to now service those debts.

The economy is still in stall mode and not out of the woods yet. Much of that initial growth that Biden overseen came from the injection of funds into the economy from post Covid through Government welfare and other boosts to kickstart the economy after Covid.

The real test will be when the US has to address its debt in raising the ceiling again. This is when they will have to face the reality that debt is getting out of hand and the market will respond accordingly.

Things are bound to slow down eventually, they always do. Why are you in such a rush? Is it that you want a recession to start just before the election?

 

[Hans Blaster]

The real test will be when the US has to address its debt in raising the ceiling again. This is when they will have to face the reality that debt is getting out of hand and the market will respond accordingly.

No, that's when we have to deal (yet again) with the political terrorists in the Capitol who exploit a flaw in the current law of the United States that properly and legally budgeted expenditures that are known at passage to cause increases in debt levels requires an additional, bookkeeping change in the level of authorized debt.

 

[stevevw]

Conversely, when Trump won in ‘16, many Republicans took this anomaly to be a “miracle” (thus Trump was divinely “ordained” to be President) and the only way God’s chosen could have lost in ‘20 was if the GOP was so incompetent so as to allow the Democrats “steal the election”.

And we see another reason not to mix faith with politics.

Yeah its getting a bit too prophetic I think, reading stuff into it that is not there.

From what I understand I think some believe Trump may be the anti Christ or something like that. The one that brings peace to the middle east and then breaks it lol.

But then why are people more often thinking this way. Its not just Christians but even non Christians speaking in terms of the present time being a vital time, proclaiming that the opposition will bring the downfall of society in one way of another.

Theres some underlying feeling or belief that we are at a crossroad or threshold for something big, a big change or something like that. I am not sure but the belief is certainly strong among many. Maybe its just a symptom of uncertain and unstable times.

 

[Pommer]

But then why are people more often thinking this way. Its not just Christians but even non Christians speaking in terms of the present time being a vital time, proclaiming that the opposition will bring the downfall of society in one way of another.

I think it stems from the fact that people (in general, for American politics, “both sides”) tend to seek to use the government to affect society, when the reality is that governments can only be influenced by the society in which they operate and trying it the other way ‘round gets “messy” quickly.

 

[stevevw]

Which figures?

https://www.aei.org/op-eds/dont-get-excited-the-u-s-economy-is-in-bad-shape-below-the-surface/

I thought you had something related to the economy to discuss.

That is related to the economy lol. How is credit debt not related to the economy. That along with national debt are probably the greatest economic issue at the moment.

As we know, deficits don't matter.

What, is this some brainwashing done by those not wanting to face the reality of their economic position so they can continue feeding their compulsion to spend money they havn't got.

Of course it matters. If you allowed large deficits to the point the % of GPD is paying down debt then you are taking real money out of the economy. Its a fake economy. It devalues the dollar.

Deficits are ok to get you through a difficult period and to invest to make money. But that also means you create surpluses as a result to reduce the deficits. Alaways having increasing debt and deficits is not good economic management.

The US has their head in the sand and believe by increasing the debt ceiling that will solve all their problem. But its the complete opposite. Its like a gambling addict who keeps losing money believing his next bet will get him out of trouble only to go further in debt to the point he loses his house.

I remeber when the debt cieling was increased from 17 trillion and it was a crisis time in US politics and economy because it meant becoming real and accounting for their economic situation which they acknowledged was not good. That was only a little over 10 years ago. So its doubled in such a short time.

There is only so much leeway you can get away with and put off and the US is getting closer to that tipping point not further away. The next debt ceiling increases is going to bring the chickens home to roost even more so and make the US take a good look at itself and it won't be a pretty picture. Its a reality check on what the real situation is and not the manipulated and massaged figures show.

 

[stevevw]

I think it stems from the fact that people (in general, for American politics, “both sides”) tend to seek to use the government to affect society, when the reality is that governments can only be influenced by the society in which they operate and trying it the other way ‘round gets “messy” quickly.

Thats interesting. That seems to point to more State involvement and control in more aspects of peoples lives which I don't think is a good thing. In fact the opposite of a government that represents the people.

It also means the political has become the personal which is what the academic ideologues wanted all along. It also explains how political positions have become so polarised where an opposing view is not just a matter of another opinion in the public square but a threat to the very existence of those who have different views and beliefs.

 

[Gene2memE]

Actually those figures do lie. They are not as good as you think. They mask other underlying problems. The first 1/4 of 2024 was downfor GDP and much of the economic growth has been fueled by consumer spending which is mostly from credit spending.

US GDP was up 3% nominally in 1Q2024, and 1.2% in real GDP terms.

Consumer spending is now slowing as people run out of credit and have to now service those debts.

Consumer spending has cooled, but more slowly than forecast. Meanwhile, fixed investment and inventory restocking are making up most of the difference.

The economy is still in stall mode and not out of the woods yet. Much of that initial growth that Biden overseen came from the injection of funds into the economy from post Covid through Government welfare and other boosts to kickstart the economy after Covid.

The real test will be when the US has to address its debt in raising the ceiling again. This is when they will have to face the reality that debt is getting out of hand and the market will respond accordingly.

The US economy has done better since 2021 than any other peer economy (large, Western, developed). Performance in 2023 was WELL above consensus estimates and most forecasting is talking about upside risks, rather than downside.

 

[BCP1928]

Thats interesting. That seems to point to more State involvement and control in more aspects of peoples lives which I don't think is a good thing. In fact the opposite of a government that represents the people.

It also means the political has become the personal which is what the academic ideologues wanted all along. It also explains how political positions have become so polarised where an opposing view is not just a matter of another opinion in the public square but a threat to the very existence of those who have different views and beliefs.

Whose fault is that? Who has worked to make that happen ever since they were called "deplorable?"