Guess what I found about the Sabbath ? YOU MUST READ THIS!!

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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]OBVIOUSLY I HAD A LOT TO LEARN ON SABBATH. I HAVE COME TO DISTINGUISH [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]BETWEEN A [/FONT][/FONT] FEAST SABBATH (LEV 23:3, EZEK 46:1-6) AND A CREATION MEMORIAL
(EXOD 20:9-11) BOTH WHICH OCCURED ON A SATURDAY.

THE FIRST WAS A FEAST THE LATTER A PERMANENT GOD'S LAW. YOU'LL FIND A NUMBER OF VERSES IN SCRIPTURE APPEARING TO SEGREGATE THE SABBATH INTO AN OLD FEAST. HOWEVER YOU MUST LEARN THIS DISTINCTION.
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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]**************MY OLD VIEWS ON SABBATH**********************[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Hi Brethren in the Lord Jesus. [/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I was busy preparing a study for sabbath when I bumped at the mountain of evidence in scripture which convinced me beyond doubt that he sabbath was also 'ceremonial' like the passover, leaven bread, etc.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]However I always got stuck on Gen 2:1-3 which makes it sound that the sabbath was insituted before sin. This of cause is a primary argument of the SDA, UCG, and other 'Sabbatharians'.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]However you cannot believe what I just found out. Please read a small sample of my study below.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]***My Study***[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]In Gen 2:1-3 we are not told whether God blessed all the Saturdays to follow or just that first Saturday. Besides [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]this passage there is nowhere in scripture are we told that the seventh day is holy outside [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]the context of Israel in the old testament. Therefore Gen 2:1-3 is a risky premise to argue that all Saturdays are holy.[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]According to Hebrews, the issue of [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]resting on the seventh day[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] was first [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]commanded to the Israelites (Exod 16,20).[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Speaking of Israel this is what Hebrews say (notice that it says [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]the resting on a sabbath day was first commanded to the Israelites):[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]into my rest: although [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]the works were finished from the foundation of the world[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]4[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] For he spake in a certain [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]place [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of the seventh [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]day[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] on this wise[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]God did rest the seventh day from all his works[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]5[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And in [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]this [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]place[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] again, If they shall enter into my rest.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]6[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and they to whom [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]it was first preached[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] entered[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] not in because of unbelief:”[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] Hebrews 4:3-6[/FONT]

This means that Adam and Eve never rested on a seventh day, since the issue of resting would be first preached to the Israelites, 2000 years latter. This destroys the Universality of the sabbath.

In the new testament the believers are told to enter the sabbath rest by having faith in Jesus and his merits, not on a day (Hebr 4:1-9).

"For we which have believed do enter into rest..." Heb 4:3

"For if Joshua had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.: [9] There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God." Heb 4:8-9

"For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his." Heb 4:10


***END OF My OLD VIEWS***

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

I was busy preparing a study for sabbath when I bumped at the mountain of evidence in scripture which convinced me beyond doubt that he sabbath was also 'ceremonial' like the passover, leaven bread, etc.

Have you actually considered whether annual sabbaths are in fact only "ceremonial"?

 

[djconklin]

In Gen 2:1-3 we are not told whether God blessed all the Saturdays to follow or just that first Saturday. Besides this passage there is nowhere in scripture are we told that the seventh day is holy outside [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]the context of Israel in the old testament. Therefore Gen 2:1-3 is a risky premise to argue that all Saturdays are holy.[/FONT][/FONT]

Hmmm, and yet,

1) When the languages were made at the incident at the Tower of Babel the name of the seventh day was preserved as "sabbath."

2) The Israelites knew about the Sabbath a month before it was given in law.

3) The Sabbath command itself starts with the word "Remember" (which they obviously had already done).

 

[Avonia]

There are many hundreds of posts across dozens of threads on Sabbath. The conclusion one reaches on this issue has primarily to do with one's starting assumptions.

We think we have to be "right" because Sabbath is central in our eschatological beliefs.

I suspect the long-term future of the SDA church - or absence of it - will hinge largely on whether we can relate more to the principles our beliefs stem from, than the structures - some of them archaic - that were/are formed.

 

[djconklin]

There are many hundreds of posts across dozens of threads on Sabbath. The conclusion one reaches on this issue has primarily to do with one's starting assumptions.

We think we have to be "right" because Sabbath is central in our eschatological beliefs.

I won't speculate as to why some believe the way that they do. I went by Scripture and the facts.

 

[JonMiller]

I don't really care about the detailed SDA eschatological beliefs.

I am believe that Christ is returning soon. The whole sunday law thing doesn't seem very likely to me right now, but it could happen. I don't much care. If I follow God He will lead me right.

JM

 

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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]OK MY PENDING STUDY CLEARLY HAS MORE QUESTIONS OPEN: LOOK AT SOME ADDITIONS.[/FONT]



[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]***MY PENDING STUDY***[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]When Gen 2:1-3 scripture states that God [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]rested on the seventh day from all his work which[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]he had made.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it[/FONT],[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] t[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]here are two ways in which we can interpret that statement.[/FONT][/FONT]


In some bible versions the interpretters added their own views and thus changed perseptions to this passage. However reding this passage in Hebrew you'll see that it's open for two views.

{Adventists are no strangers to this type of objections, when Jesus said "Today you'll be withme in paradise", Adventist argue the way in which the bible interpreters jotted down that verse and argue that there are two ways of reading it. You know the rest of the argument.}

Back to Gen 2:1-3


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Interpretation 1:[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]It is telling us that after God resting on that seventh day (Saturday), he then declared or made all Saturdays as sanctified, which is not necessarily what this statement is saying.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]This would then prove that the sabbath was sanctified before sin. Therefore since the cross cannot annul an institution made before sin. This would then suggest that the sabbath is eternal. This is what the sabbath keepers believe.[/FONT]



[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Interpretation 2:[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Gen 2 is telling us that for God to set the seventh day of creation aside for rest, the day became sanctified. Remember that for something to be sanctified it means it is dedicated for God's use only. The temple, the priests, the vessels were all sanctified because they were dedicated to the service of God. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]This first Saturday was fully dedicated to God's rest and nothing else, hence scripture stated that it was sanctified. In other words Gen 2 is not declaring the sanctity of all Saturdays but is just telling us how the first Saturday became sanctified.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]This would not then demand that we make assertions for the sanctity of all Saturdays.[/FONT]

We then need to move to the fact that in Exodus people are told to rest like God did (to enter God's rest). This typified the rest the true sabbath rest that the people would find in Jesus expounded in Hebrews 4.

*** MY PENDING STUDY***
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Once again. No insults, no sarcasm. Let's just friendly share scripture. Okay ?

 

[Avonia]

I won't speculate as to why some believe the way that they do. I went by Scripture and the facts.

Sure you do. And the rest - they are just making stuff up and winging it.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

this is the one that convices me that sabbath is still binding

Gal 3:19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions , having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator,


transgression,violation.breaking.

παραβασεων noun - genitive plural feminine
parabasis par-ab'-as-is: violation -- breaking, transgression.

When was the Law added? at Sinai? When was that? 1440's bc.

for something to be broken or transgressed or violated, it had to exist prior to the stone tablets. that shows prior existance. And Sabbath was one of those commandments.

 

[djconklin]

However reding this passage in Hebrew you'll see that it's open for two views.

Who told you that?

Adventist argue the way in which the bible interpreters jotted down that verse and argue that there are two ways of reading it.

The problem lies with the punctuation of the passage, not the interpretation.

 

[djconklin]

I won't speculate as to why some believe the way that they do. I went by Scripture and the facts.

Sure you do. And the rest - they are just making stuff up and winging it.

I don't make stuff up, nor do I wing it. Nor, do I know of any reputable scholar in the field who would do such a thing.

 

[djconklin]

When was the Law added? at Sinai? When was that? 1440's bc.

for something to be broken or transgressed or violated, it had to exist prior to the stone tablets. that shows prior existance. And Sabbath was one of those commandments.

Good logic! Also one might ask: which law is Paul talking about? The only law(s) that had a mediatorial function (which Paul referenced) were the sacrificial laws.

 

[Avonia]

I don't make stuff up, nor do I wing it. Nor, do I know of any reputable scholar in the field who would do such a thing.

Oh, the simple things. You entirely missed the point of the post.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Romans 7:14
For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.


1. the Law is spiritual. These are spiritual laws. that were written down in the 1440's bc.

2. I am carnal. The problem is not the law, the problem is the human nature or flesh. If one is born of the spirit, one will give birth to the thing of the spirit and since the law is spiritual then one will give birth to the things in the law. and that includes the sabbath

 

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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And on the seventh day [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]he had made.[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]God [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]blessed[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] the seventh day, and [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]sanctified[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] it:[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] because that in it he had rested [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]from all his work which God created and made. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]” Gen 2:1-3[/FONT]


“For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.” Exod 20:11


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The argument here is that God blessed and hallowed the seventh day before the Fall of Man or the Jews. So the 7[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]th[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] day's sanctity has nothing to do with sin, the cross, the new covenant, etc. The seventh day of a week remains sanctified due to the fact that God rested on it.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Exodus 20:11 is clear in the fact that the sabbath was blessed before sin, after God rested. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]This shuts all the arguments saying the sabbath was first given to Israel and only for Israel.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]In addition, the greek word ([/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]proteron[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]) in Hebrews 4:6 (KJV) which states that the sabbath rest was [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]“first”[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] preached to Israel, can also be interpreted as [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]“former”[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] or [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]“earlier”[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]. In fact after cross examining it with Brown-Driver-Briggs, Strong and others it became clear that this verse means that the “rest” was [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]earlier preached[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] on Israel. Not necessarily that they were the first ones to hear of it.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The facts I've established above do not mean I conclude that we have to not work on a Saturday. There is something impressive I am learnig from Hebrew and Gen on a Sabbath. I'll drop it here soon for us to chew on.[/FONT]


Luv
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[Byfaithalone1]

1) When the languages were made at the incident at the Tower of Babel the name of the seventh day was preserved as "sabbath."

Can you provide any evidence that the word "sabbath" even existed prior to the tower of babel?

2) The Israelites knew about the Sabbath a month before it was given in law.

When they learned about the sabbath in Exodus 16, why does it seem that they had never heard of it before?

3) The Sabbath command itself starts with the word "Remember" (which they obviously had already done)

Yup. There are two ways to view the word "remember":

(1) Remember something you've already done or seen in the past.
(2) Remember going forward something that I am telling you right now.
​

Since God had given the sabbath to the Israelites prior to Sinai, the word "remember" is quite appropriate.

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I don't really care about the detailed SDA eschatological beliefs.

At one point, I felt the same way.

I am believe that Christ is returning soon.

Personally, I share this belief.

The whole sunday law thing doesn't seem very likely to me right now

Not to me either. America has a strong alliance with Israel. Methinks the Jews who have strong ties to America might have a thing or two to say about a national Sunday law.

I don't much care.

Ultimately, I don't either. I suppose I do feel bad, though, for those who live in fear of the Sunday law. God never limited worship to one day out of seven. The mark of the beast relates to WHO a man worships, not when. It is just sad that there are so many folks anxious about things that will never happen.

If I follow God He will lead me right.

And, even if you fail to follow Him perfectly, you can still remain in the capable arms of the only sovereign, omnipotent and holy God. For that (and many other things), He is worthy to be praised!

BFA

 

[dragNdrop]

BFA

IS IT NOT CLEAR FROM EXOD 20:11 THAT GOD ESTABLISHED THE SABBATH AT CREATION ?

“For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.” Exod 20:11

GUYS LET'S PROGRESS TO REAL DEBATES

 

[Byfaithalone1]

BFA

IS IT NOT CLEAR FROM EXOD 20:11 THAT GOD ESTABLISHED THE SABBATH AT CREATION ?

“For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.” Exod 20:11

GUYS LET'S PROGRESS TO REAL DEBATES

We're having a real debate already, for there is nothing in Scripture that confirms that man was observing a sabbath prior to Exodus 16. There are many assumptions, but Exodus 20:11 only tells us that Jesus rested and sanctified the day.

Note that creation is not the only reason that the sabbath was given to the Israelites.

BFA

 

[dragNdrop]

BFA

You admit that Jesus rested and sanctified the day. Why would Jesus sanctify a day when he did not intended for Adam and Eve to observe ? Let's say Adam never sinned, what would become of this sanctified day ?

Now if we admit that Jesus sanctified the day before sin. How can the cross wich is a sin solution replace an institution made before sin ?

You see if it was not for Gen 2:1-3 I wolud have long left the sabbath.