Guam kingfisher

[Diamond72]

So... what's the issue here? Why bring the focus to the Guam kingfisher specifically?

Because AV is from Guam and he is a YEC. Young Earth Creationist. We are on a forum for evolution and creation and we are having a discussion about young earth creationism. So my question is: What evidence do you have that anything on Guam is older than 6,000 years?

It is possible that the King Fisher was brought there by humans. It has been there long enough to adapt itself to the environment. Although they may be going extinct now.

The reason they call them a King Fisher is that its beak has evolved so they are very good at catching and eating fish to survive. They are highly adaptable.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Because AV is from Guam and he is a YEC. Young Earth Creationist. We are on a forum for evolution and creation and we are having a discussion about young earth creationism. So my question is: What evidence do you have that anything on Guam is older than 6,000 years?

It is possible that the King Fisher was brought there by humans. It has been there long enough to adapt itself to the environment. Although they may be going extinct now.

The reason they call them a King Fisher is that its beak has evolved so they are very good at catching and eating fish to survive. They are highly adaptable.
View attachment 327755

And yet nowhere did you say in the first post or any post until now that this thread has to do with YEC.

But the evidence that we do have for the age of Guam being older than 6000 years is the rocks themselves, which show that through volcanism, the islands of Guam and the other surrounding islands came about during the Eocene period, between 34 and 56 million years ago.

 

[Frank Robert]

That does not explain anything. Where did the common ancestor come from? There are 7000 islands.

You claim that Noah's flood was local so I am trying to work within your beliefs. If the only animals that survived the flood where those on the ark then Kingfisher was a descendant from the breeding pair on the ark. In your ark beliefs if god did not destroy all the animals then what does your intuition tell you? Since there is no evidence for the Ark I would say that Kingfisher evolved from ancestors going back to the LUCA.

 

[driewerf]

Can someone please explain me what is going on here?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Can someone please explain me what is going on here?

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

 

[Diamond72]

But the evidence that we do have for the age of Guam being older than 6000 years is the rocks themselves, which show that through volcanism, the islands of Guam and the other surrounding islands came about during the Eocene period, between 34 and 56 million years ago.

He has some sort of embedded age theory. Which I suppose is not any more or less valid than time delusion.

 

[Diamond72]

Can someone please explain me what is going on here?

This is the creation and evolution forum and this is a discussion about YEC creationism. I suppose it would have been less confusing if I had put that in the title.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

He has some sort of embedded age theory. Which I suppose is not any more or less valid than time delusion.

What he has is bunk and extra-bibilical nonsense.

Thread closed.

 

[AV1611VET]

What he has is bunk and extra-bibilical nonsense.

What's this then?

Behold the Terrible Lizard

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

What's this then?

Behold the Terrible Lizard

A link to a thread.

 

[AV1611VET]

A link to a thread.

It figures.

If you can't see bunk and scientific nonsense and mislabeling and whatnot in that thread, then ... well ...

... it figures.

Here's an extra [dis]credit question:

Do flying squirrels fly?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

It figures.

If you can't see bunk and scientific nonsense and mislabeling and whatnot in that thread, then ... well ...

... it figures.

Here's an extra [dis]credit question:

Do flying squirrels fly?

Do flying fish fly?

And you did just ask me "what is this then?". You didn't specify that I had to look at the thread, though I did and it's all just par for your course your usual malarkey.

 

[Hans Blaster]

You would have to have a PhD in Physics to understand. Not only is time relative, but there is also time delusion.

I do and I still don't understand what you are trying to say.

Let me give you an example. I am 70 years old. That means I look back on 70 years of experience and I look forward to maybe another 10 years in the future. If I were 10 years old and looking forward to 70 years of the future my perspective would be totally different.

That's perception, a branch of psychology. It is not physics.

Women love 50 year old men. They are very balanced. They have plenty of experience but they also have a lot of life to live and look forward to.

Nice. Let your friends know.

 

[Diamond72]

I do and I still don't understand what you are trying to say.

I am talking about Einsteins' theory of Relativity. Everything is explained by Gerald Schroeder's article on the age of the earth. I have not actually read the book, but the web page offers a nice summary.

"Nahmanides taught that although the days of Genesis One are 24 hours each, they contain “kol yemot ha-olam” – all the ages and all the secrets of the world. "

The Age of the Universe | Gerald Schroeder

 

[AV1611VET]

"Nahmanides taught that although the days of Genesis One are 24 hours each, they contain “kol yemot ha-olam” – all the ages and all the secrets of the world. "

That's pretty good: I like that.

A couple of changes though:

I would change "ages" to "dispensations" and "secrets" to "mysteries."

 

[Hans Blaster]

I am talking about Einsteins' theory of Relativity. Everything is explained by Gerald Schroeder's article on the age of the earth. I have not actually read the book, but the web page offers a nice summary.

"Nahmanides taught that although the days of Genesis One are 24 hours each, they contain “kol yemot ha-olam” – all the ages and all the secrets of the world. "

The Age of the Universe | Gerald Schroeder

And I already went over Schroeder's "cosmology" and shredded it into tiny pieces in a different thread where you also posted this link. Schroeder's "cosmology" was garbage then and it is still garbage.

 

[Diamond72]

Schroeder's "cosmology" was garbage then and it is still garbage.

You do know that there are people who eat out of garbage cans don't you? Perhaps if garbage was all you had to eat, then you would eat garbage also.

This is all very basic and very simple. The geological ages are not the same length. BUT the order does line up with science. Schroeder uses Science and Religion to get the days in Genesis to line up with when the events took place. No one else is able to do that.

I could maybe get my son to work on coming up with a formula. Or maybe I can get chatbot to work on it. But I would have to feed them the right information. The good news is that no one seems to care except for me. Many if not most people are OEC. But they make no attempt to get the math to work to get the geological ages to line up with the length of the days in genesis.

I am going to give you what chatbot says. If you want to ignore it that is fine. I will condense it for you.

"the Hasidic interpretation of the Kabbalah in Judaism holds that the "days" of creation described in the book of Genesis represent not just literal 24-hour periods, but all of time and all the ages. This interpretation allows for a harmonious relationship between religion and science as the "days" can be seen as allegorical representations of much longer periods of time, consistent with the scientific understanding of the age of the Earth and the universe."

Nahmanides taught that although the days of Genesis One are 24 hours each, they contain “kol yemot ha-olam” – all the ages and all the secrets of the world. This was 500 years before Bishop Usher who was a YEC.

 

[Diamond72]

I would change "ages" to "dispensations" and "secrets" to "mysteries."

YEC, "Kol Yemot HaOlam" can be translated "all the dispensations/mysteries of the world". This interpretation reflects the belief in the idea that God reveals different aspects of His divine nature and plan at different times in history, and that these different dispensations or mysteries are all part of a larger narrative of God's relationship with man and the world.

A literal day is a part of the oral tradition that Nahmanides talks about. It is considered to be a part of the oral tradition that goes back to Moses and some people say all the way to Abraham and Adam.

 

[AV1611VET]

YEC, "Kol Yemot HaOlam" can be translated "all the dispensations/mysteries of the world". This interpretation reflects the belief in the idea that God reveals different aspects of His divine nature and plan at different times in history, and that these different dispensations or mysteries are all part of a larger narrative of God's relationship with man and the world.

We call that "progressive revelation."

 

[Hans Blaster]

You do know that there are people who eat out of garbage cans don't you? Perhaps if garbage was all you had to eat, then you would eat garbage also.

Not relevant.

This is all very basic and very simple. The geological ages are not the same length. BUT the order does line up with science. Schroeder uses Science and Religion to get the days in Genesis to line up with when the events took place. No one else is able to do that.

Science and religion don't mix. Trying to mix them will not workout well.

I showed how messed up Schroeder's nonsense was a few weeks ago:

RECORD vs LAYERS

I could maybe get my son to work on coming up with a formula. Or maybe I can get chatbot to work on it. But I would have to feed them the right information. The good news is that no one seems to care except for me. Many if not most people are OEC. But they make no attempt to get the math to work to get the geological ages to line up with the length of the days in genesis.

I am going to give you what chatbot says. If you want to ignore it that is fine. I will condense it for you.

It can't make a bigger hash of cosmology than Schroeder.

"the Hasidic interpretation of the Kabbalah in Judaism holds that the "days" of creation described in the book of Genesis represent not just literal 24-hour periods, but all of time and all the ages. This interpretation allows for a harmonious relationship between religion and science as the "days" can be seen as allegorical representations of much longer periods of time, consistent with the scientific understanding of the age of the Earth and the universe."

Nahmanides taught that although the days of Genesis One are 24 hours each, they contain “kol yemot ha-olam” – all the ages and all the secrets of the world. This was 500 years before Bishop Usher who was a YEC.

I really don't care about a Jewish interpretation any more than a Christian one. (That is to say -- none at all.)