Guam kingfisher

[Diamond72]

I do not believe there is any such thing as being against God.

Because you are looking at this from your perspective, not God's perspective. The point is NOT pro or con. MY POINT is that there is no middle ground and no fence sitting allowed. Your reaction indicates that you think the middle ground is very acceptable. God does give us time to decide but still there is no middle ground. There is no neutral and if you try to sit on the fense God will count you out.

Of course we are dealing with the verse '"So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth." (Revelation 3:16) There are other interpretations of this verse. For example some people believe that you do not actually lose your salvation for being a fense sitter, you just do not represent God. He can not use people like that to represent Him.

Maybe you are right, "against" is not a good word to use. Because the Bible does use the word out.

Revelation 3:16 is a verse from the New Testament book of Revelation, in which Jesus addresses the church in the city of Laodicea. The verse reads:

"So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth."

In this verse, Jesus is using a metaphor to describe the spiritual condition of the church in Laodicea. The metaphor compares the church's spiritual state to a liquid that is lukewarm and unappealing, and Jesus says that he will "spit" the church out of his mouth as a result.

The verse is often interpreted to mean that Jesus expects his followers to be fully committed to their faith and to actively seek to serve and glorify God. The lukewarm condition of the Laodicean church is seen as a warning to Christians not to become complacent or indifferent in their faith, but rather to remain fervent and passionate in their devotion to God.

 

[Diamond72]

You're aware of God, whether you want to be or not.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Yes that is exactly what is going on. ALL means ALL. Hyper-Calvinism wants to change the word ALL to "some".

Maybe people are here because they feel God tugging on the strings of their heart. Maybe they have an issue with God. I know a girl who lost her parents when she was 12 years old. She was really mad at God and blamed him for taking her parents away from her. I was able to explain to her that God gives us a long life but the enemy took them away before their time. She became a devout Christian and he faith became very important to her.

I was dating her at the time when I realized why God brought us together. I suppose this is why people do not believe missionary dating is right.

 

[Diamond72]

An anti-intellectual without peer.

I did not know that. I see now that Under Pol Pot's regime, schools and universities were shut down, and intellectuals, including teachers, professors, and artists, were systematically targeted for execution.

 

[Diamond72]

That's a very different posture than being "against God".

Yes, I understand what you are saying. The point I was trying to make was from God's perspective and His attitude. The Bible says: "many are called but few are chosen". (Matthew 22:14) That does not mean they are not saved. It means they do not represent God. We have to be Holy, Consecrated and Sanctified to be used by God.

"And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God." Zechariah 13:9

 

[Diamond72]

Some people set their security lights so sensitive, they come on when a car passes their house.

I have a motion sensor on a lawn sprinkler, but they figure out a way to get around it.

 

[AV1611VET]

I have a motion sensor on a lawn sprinkler, but they figure out a way to get around it.

LOL

 

[Frank Robert]

I am talking about Bruce Feiler's book "Walking the Bible". PBS made a program based on the book.

There are numerous cities and places mentioned in the Bible for which archaeological evidence has been found, confirming that they were real places. Here are a few examples:

1. Jerusalem: The capital city of ancient Israel, and one of the most important cities in the Bible, has been extensively excavated, revealing evidence of its ancient history.
2. Jericho: One of the oldest inhabited cities in the world, Jericho is mentioned in the Bible in connection with the conquest of Canaan by the Israelites. Excavations at Jericho have revealed evidence of ancient walls and fortifications.
3. Nazareth: The town where Jesus is said to have grown up, Nazareth was a small village in the first century, and archaeological excavations have uncovered evidence of ancient houses and tombs.
4. Capernaum: A town on the shore of the Sea of Galilee, Capernaum was a center of Jesus' ministry, and excavations have revealed evidence of a first-century synagogue and other buildings.
5. Megiddo: An important city in ancient Israel, Megiddo is mentioned in the Bible as the site of several battles. Excavations at Megiddo have revealed evidence of an ancient city and fortifications.
   • Hebron: A city in the southern part of the West Bank, Hebron is mentioned in the Bible as the burial place of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Archaeological evidence has been found in the city, including ancient walls and tombs.
   • Ashkelon: An ancient city on the Mediterranean coast of Israel, Ashkelon is mentioned in the Bible as one of the five cities of the Philistines. Excavations at Ashkelon have revealed evidence of an ancient city and port, including walls, temples, and other buildings.
   • Bethsaida: A small fishing village on the Sea of Galilee, Bethsaida is mentioned in the Bible as the birthplace of several of Jesus' disciples. Excavations at Bethsaida have uncovered evidence of an ancient city and fishing village, including houses, streets, and a harbor.
   • Dan: A city in the northern part of Israel, Dan is mentioned in the Bible as one of the cities of the Israelites. Excavations at Dan have revealed evidence of an ancient city, including walls, gates, and other buildings.
   • Beersheba: A city in the southern part of Israel, Beersheba is mentioned in the Bible as the place where Abraham and Isaac made a covenant with God. Excavations at Beersheba have uncovered evidence of an ancient city, including walls, gates, and a well.
   • • Megiddo: A city in northern Israel, Megiddo is mentioned in the Bible as the site of a battle between the Israelites and the Canaanites. Excavations at Megiddo have uncovered evidence of an ancient city, including fortifications, palaces, and temples.
     • Capernaum: A fishing village on the Sea of Galilee, Capernaum is mentioned in the New Testament as the hometown of several of Jesus' disciples. Excavations at Capernaum have revealed evidence of an ancient town, including houses, a synagogue, and a church.
     • Lachish: A city in southern Israel, Lachish is mentioned in the Bible as a city that was besieged and destroyed by the Babylonians. Excavations at Lachish have uncovered evidence of an ancient city, including walls, gates, and a palace.
     • Hazor: A city in northern Israel, Hazor is mentioned in the Bible as one of the cities of the Canaanites. Excavations at Hazor have revealed evidence of an ancient city, including fortifications, palaces, and temples.
     • Jericho: A city in the West Bank, Jericho is mentioned in the Bible as the site of the famous battle in which the Israelites marched around the city and the walls fell down. Excavations at Jericho have uncovered evidence of an ancient city, including walls, towers, and a palace.
   • • The Tel Dan Stele: This is a stone monument that was discovered in northern Israel in 1993. It contains an inscription in Aramaic that refers to the "House of David," providing the first archaeological evidence of King David's existence.
     • The Merneptah Stele: This is an ancient Egyptian inscription from the 13th century BCE that refers to the Israelites as a people and mentions their presence in the land of Canaan.
     • The Dead Sea Scrolls: These are a collection of Jewish texts that were discovered in the 1940s and 1950s in the vicinity of the Dead Sea. They include fragments of the Hebrew Bible as well as other Jewish texts, and they provide important insights into Jewish religious practices and beliefs.
     • The Pool of Siloam: This is a pool in Jerusalem that is mentioned in the New Testament as the site where Jesus healed a blind man. In 2004, excavations uncovered the remains of the pool, confirming its existence and providing important historical context for the story.
     • The City of David: This is an ancient city located in the heart of Jerusalem that was the original capital of the Israelite kingdom. Excavations have uncovered evidence of a city wall, a palace, and other structures that provide important historical context for the biblical accounts.
     • • The Cyrus Cylinder: This is an ancient clay cylinder from the 6th century BCE that was discovered in modern-day Iraq. It contains an inscription in cuneiform script that refers to the conquest of Babylon by the Persian king Cyrus the Great and his policy of allowing captive peoples to return to their homelands, as described in the Bible.
       • The Pilate Stone: This is a limestone block from the 1st century CE that was discovered in Caesarea Maritima in Israel. It bears an inscription that reads "Pontius Pilate, Prefect of Judea," providing archaeological evidence for the existence of the Roman governor who ordered the crucifixion of Jesus.
       • The Synagogue at Capernaum: Capernaum was a fishing village on the north shore of the Sea of Galilee that was mentioned in the Gospels as the place where Jesus lived and taught during his Galilean ministry. Excavations have uncovered the remains of a 1st century CE synagogue at the site, which provides important archaeological evidence for the New Testament accounts.
       • The Hezekiah Tunnel: This is a tunnel that was built in the 8th century BCE to bring water from the Gihon Spring to the Pool of Siloam in Jerusalem. It was mentioned in the Old Testament book of 2 Kings as part of King Hezekiah's preparations for an Assyrian siege of Jerusalem.

Where is the physical evidence for 30,000 or 2 million Israeli slaves living and dying in the Sinai, a span of 150 miles, for 40 years?

1. • The Dead Sea Scrolls: These are a collection of Jewish texts that were discovered in caves near the Dead Sea in the 1940s and 1950s. They include copies of books from the Hebrew Bible, as well as other religious and non-religious writings from the Second Temple period. The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls has shed new light on the origins and development of the Hebrew Bible and the history of Judaism.
   • The Tel Dan Stele: This is an inscribed stone that was discovered in the 1990s in northern Israel. It contains an inscription in Aramaic that refers to the "house of David," providing independent confirmation of the existence of King David, who is a central figure in the Bible.
   • The Pool of Bethesda: This is a pool located in Jerusalem that is mentioned in the Gospel of John as the site where Jesus healed a paralyzed man. Archaeological excavations have uncovered the remains of a pool and other structures at the site that date to the 1st century CE, providing important evidence for the historicity of the Gospel account.
   • The City of David: This is the oldest part of Jerusalem, which was occupied by the Israelites in the 10th century BCE and was the capital of the Davidic kingdom. Archaeological excavations at the site have uncovered numerous artifacts, including pottery, inscriptions, and buildings, that provide important evidence for the historicity of the Bible.
2. These are just a few examples of the many cities and places mentioned in the Bible for which archaeological evidence has been found.

I have not claimed that there is zero evidence of historical events in the bible.

Doubting the Story of Exodus

"Today, the prevailing theory is that Israel probably emerged peacefully out of Canaan--modern-day Lebanon, southern Syria, Jordan and the West Bank of Israel--whose people are portrayed in the Bible as wicked idolators. Under this theory, the Canaanites who took on a new identity as Israelites were perhaps joined or led by a small group of Semites from Egypt--explaining a possible source of the Exodus story, scholars say. As they expanded their settlement, they may have begun to clash with neighbors, perhaps providing the historical nuggets for the conflicts recorded in Joshua and Judges."

“Scholars have known these things for a long time, but we’ve broken the news very gently,” said William Dever, a professor of Near Eastern archeology and anthropology at the University of Arizona and one of America’s preeminent archeologists."

Source: Doubting the Story of Exodus

 

[Frank Robert]

Sinners?

You may have unwittingly provided an excellent example of where the writers of the bible considered all humanity as evil.

 

[dlamberth]

We have to be Holy, Consecrated and Sanctified to be used by God.

Is that how you see yourself?

 

[Ophiolite]

According to a study published in the scientific journal Nature in 2013, this common ancestor is estimated to have lived between 2,000 and 4,000 years ago. The researchers used genetic data from people around the world to construct a family tree and estimate the time to the most recent common ancestor for all living humans.

We share a recent common ancestor in 80 generations because the human population has been growing exponentially over time. This means that each generation has more descendants than the previous generation, leading to a rapid increase in the number of people who are alive today and who have lived in the past.

As the human population grows, the number of potential ancestors for any individual also grows. This means that even if you go back just a few hundred years, the number of your direct ancestors quickly becomes very large, potentially numbering in the thousands or millions.

Genghis Khan is known to have 16 million descendants. I come from a family of at least a million.

I see some numbers, but I do not see a cohesive and convincing maths based argument. Such maths as I see references to has been done by others, not by you. So, I ask again - show me the maths, your maths.

 

[Diamond72]

I see some numbers, but I do not see a cohesive and convincing maths based argument. Such maths as I see references to has been done by others, not by you. So, I ask again - show me the maths, your maths.

It looks like you are being investigated. So I will not be responding to your posts anymore.

 

[Ophiolite]

It looks like you are being investigated. So I will not be responding to your posts anymore.

Understood. You did not do the maths. You cannot show the maths. Your claim that you had done the maths was incorrect.
I shall do my best not to read your posts anymore.

 

[Gene2memE]

According to a study published in the scientific journal Nature in 2013, this common ancestor is estimated to have lived between 2,000 and 4,000 years ago. The researchers used genetic data from people around the world to construct a family tree and estimate the time to the most recent common ancestor for all living humans.

I'll bet you can't find a study in Nature from 2013 that actually says this. I think you're just repeating creationist talking points without actually bothering to fact check. What you might be referring to is a 2013 study on recent common ancestry for most (but not all) EUROPEANS.

Most Europeans share recent ancestors - Nature

Genetic sequences link far-flung populations and bear marks of historical events.

www.nature.com

Meanwhile, here's what's actually been published in Nature during 2013 on the dating of human common ancestry:

Genetic Adam and Eve did not live too far apart in time - Nature

Studies re-date 'Y-chromosome Adam' and 'mitochondrial Eve'.

www.nature.com

​

"Bustamante and his team sequenced the Y chromosomes of 69 males from around the world and uncovered about 9,000 previously unknown DNA sequence variations. They used these variations to create a more reliable molecular clock and found that Adam lived between 120,000 and 156,000 years ago. A comparable analysis of the same men's mtDNA sequences suggested that Eve lived between 99,000 and 148,000 years ago. ​

​

“This idea of a very recent common ancestor of all men is not that true,” Bustamante says.​

​

Meanwhile, a team led by Paolo Francalacci, a population geneticist at the University of Sassari, Italy, came to a similar conclusion by studying the Y chromosomes of 1,200 men from the island of Sardinia. The team identified nearly 7,000 previously unknown Y-chromosome variations and used that detail to create their own molecular clock. The clock helped to pinpoint key events in Sardinian history, such as the rise of Neolithic populations there and the arrival of Africans as part of the Roman slave trade. It also suggested that Adam lived 180,000–200,000 years ago, similar to initial estimates of Eve’s age."​

​

Sources for the above are:

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1237619

There's also this 2013 study:

An African American Paternal Lineage Adds an Extremely Ancient Root to the Human Y Chromosome Phylogenetic Tree

We report the discovery of an African American Y chromosome that carries the ancestral state of all SNPs that defined the basal portion of the Y chromosome phylogenetic tree. We sequenced ∼240 kb of this chromosome to identify private, derived mutations on this lineage, which we named A00. We...

www.cell.com

It states:

"We then estimated the time to the most recent common ancestor (TMRCA) for the Y tree as 338 thousand years ago (kya) (95% confidence interval = 237–581 kya). Remarkably, this exceeds current estimates of the mtDNA TMRCA, as well as those of the age of the oldest anatomically modern human fossils. The extremely ancient age combined with the rarity of the A00 lineage, which we also find at very low frequency in central Africa, point to the importance of considering more complex models for the origin of Y chromosome diversity.​

Three studies, with a lower bound for Y chromosome Adam at 120,000 years, and for mitochondrial Eve at 99,000 years.

 

[Diamond72]

Three studies, with a lower bound for Y chromosome Adam at 120,000 years, and for mitochondrial Eve at 99,000 years.

This is Science for all of mankind. The Bible talks about the Hebrew people. "The Seven Daughters of Eve" is a book by Bryan Sykes that was published in 2001. Now they believe there are many more than 7 daughters of Eve. But the Hebrew Eve in Eden was just one of many. The story is an archetype or paradigm. Even though Eve in the Bible was a real person. The Arab Continent was given to Abraham and his descendants. It is pretty easy in the Bible to trace the genealogy from Adam to Abraham. Luke and Matthew actually trace the genealogy from Adam to Jesus through Abraham and David. The Bible tells the story of these people.

 

[Gene2memE]

This is Science for all of mankind. The Bible talks about the Hebrew people. "The Seven Daughters of Eve" is a book by Bryan Sykes that was published in 2001. Now they believe there are many more than 7 daughters of Eve. But the Hebrew Eve in Eden was just one of many. The story is an archetype or paradigm.

So, no citation for that "study published in the scientific journal Nature in 2013"?

Even though Eve in the Bible was a real person.

I don't think there's evidence for that. There are claims of such, but nothing that would count as evidence.

The Arab Continent was given to Abraham and his descendants.

And I own the Moon and 4/5ths of Tasmania. Just because something is claimed, doesn't mean it is so.

I see no convincing evidence Abraham was a historical figure. Any unbiased standard of evidence that accepts Abraham as a real, historical person would necessarily entail figures like Hercules, Gilgamesh, Rama or the Monkey King also being real, historical people.

It is pretty easy in the Bible to trace the genealogy from Adam to Abraham. Luke and Matthew actually trace the genealogy from Adam to Jesus through Abraham and David. The Bible tells the story of these people.

There are lots of ancient texts that tell the stories of lots of different peoples and give detailed genealogies. Unless there is supporting evidence of the historicity of any particular individual, I don't see any compelling reason to take those texts literally.

And, for the people that have been demonstrated to be historical, I don't have to believe all the claims made about them.

Suppose I accept Zoroaster was a real person, and lived sometime in the seventh century BC in what is present day Iran. I can accept that he was a religious leader and social reformer without having to accept any of the supernatural claims about him. I don't have to accept the claim that angelic beings appeared at the moment of conception and again at his birth, or that demons tried to kill him, or that he spoke a language only known to the gods, or that he held discussions with the personifications of various parts of nature, or that he restored the sight of the blind, or that he ended natural disasters and plagues.

 

[Diamond72]

Is that how you see yourself?

That is the objective. This began with John Wesley. I see this as the work God wants to do in us.

John Wesley believed that all Christians could achieve holiness, which involved a transformation of the heart and mind, and an expression of love towards others. He emphasized that holiness was attainable through the power of the Holy Spirit and was essential for experiencing the fullness of God's love and power.

 

[Gene2memE]

@Diamond7 Got any citations yet?