Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America stands with Ukraine over/against Russian Orthodox Church

[Justin-H.S.]

From the horse’s mouth:
Archbishop Elpidophoros Statement on Visit to Embassy of Ukraine - Messages - Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America

GOA stands with State Department against Russian Church, archbishop tells Ukrainian ambassador
GOA stands with State Department against Russian Church, archbishop tells Ukrainian ambassador

Archbishop Elpidophoros and the Greek Archdiocese stand together with the U.S. State Department against the Russian Orthodox Church, which he and the State Department consider but a tool of the Russian state.

The fruition of Mike Pompeo’s machinations. Reminds me of “The Living Church” in Soviet Russia, but this time it’s Greek.

 

[Ezana]

How unfortunate.

 

[ArmyMatt]

not surprising

 

[prodromos]

not surprising

I no longer financially support the Phanar.

<edit>My apologies Father, I didn't intend to reply to your post. I meant it as a response to the OP</edit>

 

[E.C.]

Yeah, we've all known he's a sell-out. What else is new?

Have they found the $40 million that was supposed to go to St Nicholas at Ground Zero yet?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I no longer financially support the Phanar.

<edit>My apologies Father, I didn't intend to reply to your post. I meant it as a response to the OP</edit>

no worries

 

[E.C.]

I no longer financially support the Phanar.

<edit>My apologies Father, I didn't intend to reply to your post. I meant it as a response to the OP</edit>

I'm glad to hear one more person no longer supports the Phanar. Stuff like the Ukrainian fiasco are some of the things that make me grateful that I became Orthodox in the OCA and not the Hellenic Club.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

I no longer financially support the Phanar.

What to do in my situation?

We’ve built a community here, but only the GOA parish is near. We love our Fr. but we don’t agree with the phanar. What can we do when it is antagonizing our Russian brothers?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Barf.

 

[rusmeister]

Unfortunately, the political is not irrelevant to the spiritual.

I’ve tried to tell people forever - keeping NATO after the fall of the Soviet Union was beneficial to the super-rich people who profited from the Cold War and pretty much nobody else. It was always a sword aimed at Russia, and only Russia. Expanding it eastward towards Russia, and especially offering to include former USSR border countries, like the Ukraine, is exactly like China setting up alliances, bases and missiles in Canada and Mexico, and like the USSR was going to do in Cuba in the ‘60’s. For some reason, many Americans seem wholly unable to grasp that. Thus, Russia’s willingness to take military action to prevent it. Our own politicians have acted in the interests of those super-rich plutocrats against the interests of the American people. That’s my take. I watched the welcome offered Americans in the ‘90’s in Eastern Europe and Russia by folks who remembered that we were once allies, and that their own governments had lied to them for decades slowly evaporate over here as American foreign policy became unilaterally imperial, attempting to police/rule/control events globally. And it is why we are seeing a rebirth of Stalinism and growth of nostalgia for the Soviet Union.

And the Greek Church leadership (not necessarily to be confused with Greek Church parishioners) is bent on backing the politics that are forcing confrontation and could well lead to war. So much for “Blessed are the peacemakers...”

 

[prodromos]

What to do in my situation?

We’ve built a community here, but only the GOA parish is near. We love our Fr. but we don’t agree with the phanar. What can we do when it is antagonizing our Russian brothers?

We still pray for our bishops.

 

[ArseniusTheSilent]

What to do in my situation?

We’ve built a community here, but only the GOA parish is near. We love our Fr. but we don’t agree with the phanar. What can we do when it is antagonizing our Russian brothers?

You go to church at your local GOA parish and you continue to practice your faith.

We still pray for our bishops and secular leaders and the military. Every leader is burned in effigy by someone. Even if we completely disagree with them. Even if we believe they are leading us or others over a cliff. We pray that Christ will speak peace and goodness into their hearts and help them. That's what we do as Orthodox. Keep it in perspective that this is nothing new. It has gone on for centuries and will continue for centuries.

I agree with most everyone in this thread on this topic for the record. The shared struggle is where you encounter Christ.

Just don't let these kind of larger struggles and controversies inhibit you from stepping into your local church each week.

 

[ArmyMatt]

What to do in my situation?

We’ve built a community here, but only the GOA parish is near. We love our Fr. but we don’t agree with the phanar. What can we do when it is antagonizing our Russian brothers?

if you have a good priest and a solid parish, keep doing what you’re doing.

 

[Light of the East]

Unfortunately, the political is not irrelevant to the spiritual.

I’ve tried to tell people forever - keeping NATO after the fall of the Soviet Union was beneficial to the super-rich people who profited from the Cold War and pretty much nobody else. It was always a sword aimed at Russia, and only Russia. Expanding it eastward towards Russia, and especially offering to include former USSR border countries, like the Ukraine, is exactly like China setting up alliances, bases and missiles in Canada and Mexico, and like the USSR was going to do in Cuba in the ‘60’s. For some reason, many Americans seem wholly unable to grasp that. Thus, Russia’s willingness to take military action to prevent it. Our own politicians have acted in the interests of those super-rich plutocrats against the interests of the American people. That’s my take. I watched the welcome offered Americans in the ‘90’s in Eastern Europe and Russia by folks who remembered that we were once allies, and that their own governments had lied to them for decades slowly evaporate over here as American foreign policy became unilaterally imperial, attempting to police/rule/control events globally. And it is why we are seeing a rebirth of Stalinism and growth of nostalgia for the Soviet Union.

And the Greek Church leadership (not necessarily to be confused with Greek Church parishioners) is bent on backing the politics that are forcing confrontation and could well lead to war. So much for “Blessed are the peacemakers...”

I have read somewhere (I remember it as an Orthodox web site) that American Zionism and Roman Catholicism have quietly and behind the scenes been the major problem for Russian Orthodoxy, beginning with the Jewish backed Bolshevik Revolution (not my idea - just telling you what they wrote!) Any thoughts on this idea?

 

[Light of the East]

I know NOTHING about this whole issue, and as an outsider, it is confusing to me. What little I get is that in the Donbass region of Ukraine, you have a population which is highly sympathetic to Russia. They are, for all intents and purposes, Russian. This is where the military conflict is taking place, right?

Seems to me (and again, I don't know jack) that to avoid war and bloodshed, the best thing Ukraine could do would be to say to that region "You want to be Russian? Go! And don't let the door hit you in the hindquarters on the way out."

Now . . . someone straighten me out.

 

[E.C.]

What to do in my situation?

We’ve built a community here, but only the GOA parish is near. We love our Fr. but we don’t agree with the phanar. What can we do when it is antagonizing our Russian brothers?

If it is a good healthy community, than keep going. If it becomes an issue with the majority members of the parish than you can always do one of two thing: 1) withhold contributions to the central administration and instead give that amount to a charity such as OCMC; it may require a vote of the parish or 2) petition for the parish to leave the GOA for another. Just not ROCOR.

Unfortunately, the political is not irrelevant to the spiritual.

I’ve tried to tell people forever - keeping NATO after the fall of the Soviet Union was beneficial to the super-rich people who profited from the Cold War and pretty much nobody else. It was always a sword aimed at Russia, and only Russia. Expanding it eastward towards Russia, and especially offering to include former USSR border countries, like the Ukraine, is exactly like China setting up alliances, bases and missiles in Canada and Mexico, and like the USSR was going to do in Cuba in the ‘60’s. For some reason, many Americans seem wholly unable to grasp that. Thus, Russia’s willingness to take military action to prevent it. Our own politicians have acted in the interests of those super-rich plutocrats against the interests of the American people. That’s my take. I watched the welcome offered Americans in the ‘90’s in Eastern Europe and Russia by folks who remembered that we were once allies, and that their own governments had lied to them for decades slowly evaporate over here as American foreign policy became unilaterally imperial, attempting to police/rule/control events globally. And it is why we are seeing a rebirth of Stalinism and growth of nostalgia for the Soviet Union.

And the Greek Church leadership (not necessarily to be confused with Greek Church parishioners) is bent on backing the politics that are forcing confrontation and could well lead to war. So much for “Blessed are the peacemakers...”

I agree that NATO should have been disbanded after the Cold War, however, I also think that the former Warsaw Pact countries should have formed their own military alliance. Considering how many times they've been invaded by outsiders be they Russians, Prussians, Hapsburgs, or Swedes one can not blame them for joining NATO.

Or we could just really throw things off and offer NATO membership to Russia!

I have read somewhere (I remember it as an Orthodox web site) that American Zionism and Roman Catholicism have quietly and behind the scenes been the major problem for Russian Orthodoxy, beginning with the Jewish backed Bolshevik Revolution (not my idea - just telling you what they wrote!) Any thoughts on this idea?

Historically inaccurate and bordering on anti-semitism. Sure, blame the Jews because nobody has ever done THAT before in the last 5,000 years /sarcasm

Some of the very early Bolshevik leaders came from Jewish backgrounds, but would hardly count as practicing Jews by any stretch of the imagination; the Kardashians would be considered more devout Armenian Apostolics in comparison. A lot of the early Bolsheviks also came from non-Russian minorities; why? Because when you are part of an Empire that makes all other ethnic groups subordinate to one than any alternative, including Communism, will inevitably appear attractive. Plus, the majority of the early Bolsheviks were actually the sons of Orthodox priests.

 

[Light of the East]

Plus, the majority of the early Bolsheviks were actually the sons of Orthodox priests.

How very sad.

As I said, I know NOTHING about all this. Just putting stuff out to be informed by those of you who will correct me and lead me to understand better.

 

[Dorothea]

Not surprised at all. HAH Bartholomew and Archbishop Elpidophoros have walked the tightrope and have stepped over the line at least a couple of times in the past several months to years. I really believe my presbytera who talked about a prophecy is that it seems to be true. And that prophecy was the fall of the Greek Patriarchate. I can certainly see this happening after all that's gone on in the past few years.

 

[rakovsky]

Yeah, we've all known he's a sell-out. What else is new?

Have they found the $40 million that was supposed to go to St Nicholas at Ground Zero yet?

Their explanation is that they just underestimated the costs, and it's "only" 500,000 or something that got "pocketed".

 

[rakovsky]

Stuff like the Ukrainian fiasco are some of the things that make me grateful that I became Orthodox in the OCA and not the Hellenic Club.

I wouldn't want to put down GOARCH as a "Hellenic Club". But the current conflict is still sad because I want the CP to do better.

The critical problem is not that GOARCH is Hellenic, but rather its usage of its supremacy ecclesiology to interfere in another jurisdiction. Apparently the CP had a supremacy doctrine since at least the early/mid 20th century when it took in Churches belonging to others' jurisdictions (eg. Finland) or gave them autocephaly (Georgia). This fact alone could be unsettling. But in all such cases, the Churches involved were able to come to an agreement.

For instance, Georgia was part of the MP, then the MP gave Georgia autocephaly in 1943, and then the CP issued it a separate Tomos in 1990. The CP did not need to give Georgia a separate Tomos of autocephaly, but it served to imply that the CP had the authority to do this. In an interview since 2018, CP Bartholomew gave the Georgian case as an example of exercizing his authority over the Orthodox Church. Fortunately, the Georgian issue did not cause a practical problem, because everyone agreed that Georgia was autocephalous.