Gravity

[AV1611VET]

That's two words.

Spoil sport!

 

[morningstar2651]

And what if, under further investigation, the person cannot even burp in French?

What then?

Would you pass that off as a one-time miracle, or would you assume you are investigating a hoax?

I will not believe it happened unless it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to have happened. In all likelihood such an event would be a hoax. Without evidence, we'd have no reason to believe that it had happened.

 

[Jb9]

Sounds supercalifragilisticexpialidociously munchaliciouscrumptalectable to me!

Thanks!

I thought it stops at "docious"

 

[morningstar2651]

I stole your term, Hispid!

I like the term "heuristic," so I no longer have Boolean Standards, I have a set of heuristics I use!

I hope you don't mind!

If you want to learn more about heuristics and algorithms, I recommend learning some computer science. Here are some free university courses you can take.

Stanford
https://www.coursera.org/course/algo
https://www.coursera.org/course/algo2

Princeton
https://www.coursera.org/course/algs4partI
https://www.coursera.org/course/algs4partII
https://www.coursera.org/course/aofa

 

[morningstar2651]

Yes it does, but if you had scientific grounds to conclude that it was not a miracle, then one could accept that hypothesis. But what if ones very own math fails and one has no scientific explanation left? Does one then just dismiss what may not then be natural?

Can you present us with a situation where "ones very own math fails and one has no scientific explanation left"?

If not, I'd rather not waste my time addressing imagined or hypothetical scenarios. Give me something real.

 

[HitchSlap]

Um, at 0:17, why is the agent knocking on Rod's door, but if you look past him, he's already in the room!?

Looks like the Thalidomide crew might have been in charge of quality control here, eh?

Maybe it was a miracle?!

 

[Non sequitur]

Maybe it was a miracle?!

Sub-optimal editing, done after the fact.

Why does that seem so familiar on these forums...

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Maybe it was a miracle?!

Good point. Maybe the birth defects from thalidomide were miracles as well. Not all miracles are fish and wine. Maybe thalidomide is harmless to developing infants but the defects were sent as a punishment for mothers trying to get out of morning sickness. Genesis 3:16

 

[TLK Valentine]

Okay, let's take a simple example.

Genesis 19:11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

Jesus & the Holy Ghost are in Lot's house, and there are [men] outside trying to break in.

At this point, They smite the [men] with blindness.

Nature, by herself, would not have done this; but on command, these [mens'] optic nerves cease to function.

If one of these [men] were to be teleported here right now, I'm sure no doctor on earth could find the cause of their blindness.

Assuming the event happened, you're assuming something miraculous -- i.e.,against nature. There are plenty of mundane ways to smite someone with blindness.

 

[Strathos]

Okay, skimming over this thread, and (correct me if I'm wrong here AV), I think your point is this:

Miracles are a possible variable that could account for why physical evidence about the world and the universe doesn't match up with a literal interpretation of Genesis. Correct?

To this I would simply reply that I don't deny this is possible, God could have created the universe 6000 years ago and erased all the evidence of the flood and everything, then planted all of the evidence to make it look billions of years old. But then again, He could have also created the universe 1 second ago, with everyone's memories and all other evidence planted to make it look old.

My objection to these ideas has never been that God couldn't have done them (He can do anything, of course), but that God wouldn't have done something like that, because it would be deliberately deceptive and designed to mislead people for no reason.

 

[AV1611VET]

My objection to these ideas has never been that God couldn't have done them (He can do anything, of course), but that God wouldn't have done something like that, because it would be deliberately deceptive and designed to mislead people for no reason.

You gave me two scenarios -- neither of which were embedded age -- and you want me to use them as your best examples of why He didn't embed age into the universe?

The only point I see you making here is that, had He done it Last Thursday or erased evidence and supplanted it with what we see now, He would be deceptive.

And you want me to take those as reasons why He didn't go the embedded age route as well?

No, thanks.

Don't tell me why Last Thursday or erasing one's tracks is wrong -- tell me why embedded age is wrong.

 

[CabVet]

Don't tell me why Last Thursday or erasing one's tracks is wrong -- tell me why embedded age is wrong.

Because there is no age without history.

 

[CabVet]

You mean like Israel? tongues? healings?

Israel and tongues are not miracles. Most Israelis don't even think Jesus is the messiah, and Israel is kept by military power, not divine intervention. It would be a miracle if Israel had no nuclear power and no allies in the west. Tongues? The day you play a video of someone speaking tongues for 30 seconds and two people give me the same translation, I will believe it. We can do the experiment right here with enough honesty. Up for it?

Healings? I would believe they were miracles if people were healed of all things, not just those that we cannot see. People claim all kinds of miracles by healing, from colds to aids and cancer, but I am yet to see a limb regrow.

 

[AV1611VET]

Because there is no age without history.

Don't you mean maturity without history?

 

[AV1611VET]

Most Israelis don't even think Jesus is the messiah,

Ditto for atheists -- that doesn't make them right.

 

[morningstar2651]

Any miracles to present yet?

Just curious.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Don't you mean maturity without history?

What about maturity with history such as we observe on earth?

 

[Tomk80]

What about maturity with history such as we observe on earth?

That is going to be fervently ignored by AV.

 

[AV1611VET]

What about maturity with history such as we observe on earth?

That is called either Omphalism or Last Thursdayism, depending on the type and amount of history involved.

 

[AV1611VET]

That is going to be fervently ignored by AV.

Like I did here, newbie?

Omphalos is embedded history. In fact, to make it specific, Omphalos states that Adam had a navel --- I say he didn't. Omphalos states that the earth's age cannot be ascertained --- I disagree. Omphalos states that trees had tree rings --- I disagree. Omphalos states that Adam and Eve had a recollection of having had cuts and bruises --- I disagree.