Got someone in my family that thinks they're no longer a Sinner.

[Apologetic_Warrior]

God doesn't play games with His elect nor does He play pretend. I neither pretend I am not a sinner nor do I pretend I am not a saint. I am a man of 2 natures which are in constant warfare with each other.

You mentioned a key point to this discussion relating to the nature of man. Christians have two natures in constant warfare...while the non-Christian has one nature, the sinful nature. The Scriptures which immediately come to mind first:

Romans 7:13 "Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God–through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin." (NKJV)

I strive to take that man of sin, twin1954, to the cross daily to be crucified but I do not turn a blind eye to him as though he doesn't exist. I am able to see sin in others because I see the same sin in myself. I am able to comfort others because I go through the same battles with myself.

Here again you make a great point, If we are not sinners, need we take up the cross daily? Jesus did say "“If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me." Having to deny the old self means the old self is still present. Praise God for His Spirit, so that the deeds and desires of the flesh are crucified (Gal 5:24).

We read too many warnings in the New Testament to Christians to turn a blind eye, and they presuppose Christians have two natures at war with one another daily. To further reinforce this point I turn to Scripture:

Gal 5:16 "I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."

However, if we read verse 21, there seems to be distinction between a crucified sinner, and a "practicing" sinner. At the same time Paul say's in v.26 "Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another." Here again, "us" includes Paul, and the warning makes no sense except it were in the realm of possibility for a Christian to do those things which he hates.

 

[AmericanSamurai]

drjean, try not to take this the wrong way but you are either arrogant, senile, deluded or all three; and you do sound like a mystic. If the shoe fits, ...

 

[AmericanSamurai]

And twin is correct, you do not know what sin is if you think you are sinless now.

 

[AmericanSamurai]

I do like that you brought up King David though. What did the Lord say would happen to King David's house after his great sin with Bathsheba?

Let me remind you; He said, "the Sword will never depart from your house"; and mind you this was AFTER King David repented.

And yes, this was the King David for whom Scripture says is "a Man after the Lord's Heart".

 

[AmericanSamurai]

Well I forgive you guys for calling me a mystic...even though you haven't requested forgiveness. Your opinion of me is none of my business.

What transgressions have we committed, besides offending you because we disagree with your heretical interpretation of scripture?

I hear a few of you sitting on the fence, as the Galatians did--or tried to do until Paul knocked them off it--with yes, Grace BUT---!!! Listen to what you are saying. You are limiting the Grace of God.

No fence sitting here, I know I am saved, but it doesn't mean that my finite mortal body on this side of eternity no longer commits sin(s), for we are not yet fully sanctified like a Believer in Heaven will be, which is incapable of sinning. That time is not now.

I have not created any verses of my own folks...and keep questioning you as to what you do with the Scriptures where God Almighty says he has REMOVED all your sin, East from West, deepest part of the sea etc. Do you ignore them? You can't say yes I believe God took my sin and turn around and say but I have sin...which is exactly what you are doing. How is that working for you?

This is an easy one, and the answer is CONTEXT; you obviously have no sense of it if you believe that Scripture says you are now sinless and incapable of committing sin(s).

You say I don't know what sin is? chuckle chuckle I say you don't know what the joy of the Lord is at it's fullest because if you drag the idea that you are not fully free in Christ and still have to deal with "sin" you cannot know His joy. JMO

Not knowing what sin is is no laughing matter. I don't drag anything around with me, its just a simple act of repentance and moving on in my walk with the Lord.

I mean, unless you are so dogmatic that nothing will change your mind. I understand that, I lived there for many a year..burdened and on that pointy fence of "yes, but".... thank God He showed me He is all powerful and He keeps His promises and Yes, Jesus did pay it all. ALL.

The only dogma here is the heresy and delusion you're spouting around, and you are a mystic and maybe even worse. Keep your well wishings to yourself, thanks but no thanks.

 

[AmericanSamurai]

No, not everything we do is the best for us. We do make mistakes, sometimes BIG ones

LOL. This is the most laughable one of ALL. And you do not know what sin is, because what you said here is proof that you don't know what sin is. If you don't do EVERYTHING perfectly, you are a SINNER!!! They are not just mistakes.

Like I mentioned earlier, sin(s) are not just acts that are committed, it is also good deeds that are not done when they should be, with the further problematic addition that you do ALL these things PERFECTLY, no mistakes!! Sin can be what we do or fail to do in thought, word, deed, or deed(s) that we failed to do. There are sins of commission(sins we have done), and sins of omission(sins because of what we've failed to do).

Only one Person has ever fit this Standard of measure perfectly and that is the God Man Jesus Christ. No person will ever meet this standard.

 

[AmericanSamurai]

The more that I know that in my flesh no good thing dwells, the greater my Joy and Hope in the Lord Jesus Christ because He has met that standard for me and took my place on that Cross when it should've been me.

And that Salvation is no longer dependent upon my performance, but on the finished work of Jesus Christ on the Cross. I take great joy in that every day and don't "drag" anything with me, but walk securely knowing that my Salvation is secure.

This doesn't mean that I am deluded into thinking that I am somehow now incapable of sin, as I am now led by the Spirit and no longer a slave to sin(s).

 

[AmericanSamurai]

Well I forgive you guys for calling me a mystic...even though you haven't requested forgiveness.

What's to forgive if Christians aren't sinners anymore like you believe? No harm no foul right? We didn't sin.

 

[drjean]

You did not read with understanding a thing I wrote.