Got someone in my family that thinks they're no longer a Sinner.

[AmericanSamurai]

Someone in my family believes they are no longer a Sinner because they have accepted Jesus Christ.

I just wanted to focus on all the Scripture that shows we are still Sinners til we are fully sanctified in Heaven.

 

[snumerouno]

Ah...the sinless perfection heresy.

1 John 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[shawnavery]

Sinless? I would suggest that person needs to read a little more. I think after a careful look at Paul's writings they will come to a different conclusion.

John 3:16

 

[JM]

Someone in my family believes they are no longer a Sinner because they have accepted Jesus Christ.

I just wanted to focus on all the Scripture that shows we are still Sinners til we are fully sanctified in Heaven.

Open up Romans 7 with them and read it. Especially Romans 7.21, "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" (Rom 7:19-24)

If Paul continued to sin after he was saved why wouldn't your family member?

 

[Iosias]

Someone in my family believes they are no longer a Sinner because they have accepted Jesus Christ.

What do they mean in saying they're no longer a Sinner? Is this that they no longer sin, or something else?

 

[drjean]

I agree with them. The verses that talk about "sin" are for those who haven't accepted Christ yet... when God Almighty looks at us now he sees NO SIN because He looks at us through Christ's blood.

There are different definitions for "sin" in the Bible though the English language translate them all as "sin" but for the believer in Christ they are more of mistakes and human errors, not sin unto death and hell. Semantics?

When one reads Paul's epistles to the believers you'll find no accusations of "sin" but of making mistakes and doing your best in Christ.

It isn't that we are perfect in our bodies, but we are spiritually--because Christ has clothed us with His righteousness. When we err we must still take action to repent so that we keep our relationship with the Almighty in a "good place".

Paul wrote to the Galatians (as well as Romans) on this, calling them Oh Foolish Galatians.... and talking about the "sin" that does so easily beset us...that of guilt. We are to have no guilt...we are to live free in Christ, in His freedom and joy.

 

[AmericanSamurai]

What do they mean in saying they're no longer a Sinner? Is this that they no longer sin, or something else?

Yeah, that they no longer sin.

 

[AmericanSamurai]

Then if a person no longer sins, and is no longer a sinner, then that would mean that they would no longer grow old and die, for that is a consequence of sin, and the condition of being a sinner.

 

[AmericanSamurai]

1 John 1:9

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."


emphasis is mine

 

[AmericanSamurai]

I agree with them. The verses that talk about "sin" are for those who haven't accepted Christ yet... when God Almighty looks at us now he sees NO SIN because He looks at us through Christ's blood.

There are different definitions for "sin" in the Bible though the English language translate them all as "sin" but for the believer in Christ they are more of mistakes and human errors, not sin unto death and hell. Semantics?

When one reads Paul's epistles to the believers you'll find no accusations of "sin" but of making mistakes and doing your best in Christ.

It isn't that we are perfect in our bodies, but we are spiritually--because Christ has clothed us with His righteousness. When we err we must still take action to repent so that we keep our relationship with the Almighty in a "good place".

Paul wrote to the Galatians (as well as Romans) on this, calling them Oh Foolish Galatians.... and talking about the "sin" that does so easily beset us...that of guilt. We are to have no guilt...we are to live free in Christ, in His freedom and joy.

I don't think that is accurate at all, because if this were true, that we are no longer sinners on this side of eternity because we are in Christ, then that would imply that we no longer are under the curse of sin, and we would be immortal. But that isn't true at all. We are no longer under the condemnation, but a Christian is very much still a sinner even after being regenerated.

Being fully sanctified does not happen until we are in Heaven. Correct me if I'm wrong folks.

 

[Iosias]

Yeah, that they no longer sin.

What do they base that view upon?

 

[RINO 72]

I really like the senior pastor at the church I attend but he suggest Romans 7 is pre conversion Paul. He admittidedly is at odds with many in the church on that one.

 

[drjean]

I don't think that is accurate at all, because if this were true, that we are no longer sinners on this side of eternity because we are in Christ, then that would imply that we no longer are under the curse of sin, and we would be immortal. But that isn't true at all. We are no longer under the condemnation, but a Christian is very much still a sinner even after being regenerated.

Being fully sanctified does not happen until we are in Heaven. Correct me if I'm wrong folks.

That's a strawman.

We are in Christ, but our earthly bodies have yet to be transformed. We are no longer slaves to sin since Jesus redeemed our souls (yet our bodies have not been changed)

Romans 6:6 New American Standard Bible
knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

Believers are indwelled by the Holy Spirit clothed in the righteousness of Christ. How then could someone "sin" as most think of sin? He cannot.

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Romans 6 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Believers Are Dead to Sin, Alive to God

6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become [a]united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be [b]in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old [c]self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be [d]done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is [e]freed from sin.
8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, [f]is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.


8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.[/quote]

Galatians 3:
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a ai]" class="footnote">[ai]tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

6Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba,c Father.” 7So you are no longer a slave, but God’s child; and since you are his child, God has made you also an heir.

Believers do not sin. We have no sin...God tells us:

Psalm 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]“Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!” (John 1:29, 36).

[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]God once and for all released us from our sins by the blood of Jesus (Rom. 1:5), and when He cleanses He makes us white as snow. “Come now, and let us reason together,” says the LORD, “though your sins are as scarlet, they shall be a white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they will be like wool” (Isaiah 1:18). When God washes us, we are clean. “Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow” (Psalm. 51:7). [/FONT]

http://www.abideinchrist.com/selah/sep28.html


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]“And their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more” (Hebrews 10:17; Jeremiah 31:34).

[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]He covers our sins, blots them out as a thick cloud (Rom. 4:7; Isa. 43:25; 44:22).

[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]“Blessed is the man whose sin the LORD will not take into account” (Psalm. 32:2).

Romans 3:22 [/FONT]New American Standard Bible
even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

Romans 8:1 New American Standard Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.


We are justified in Christ (justified: just as if I never sinned)

Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification.


Isaiah 61:10 New American Standard Bible
I will rejoice greatly in the LORD, My soul will exult in my God; For He has clothed me with garments of salvation, He has wrapped me with a robe of righteousness, As a bridegroom decks himself with a garland, And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.


I heard Joseph Prince, the preacher of Grace, say just this morning, We might do wrong but we have no sin. I say, Exactly!

John 8:6 speaks of freedom...freedom from what? Freedom from the burden, guilt, weight of any sin we had HAD...because Christ paid the price and there is now no condemnation for the believer. How can someone have the joy of the Lord if he is constantly worrying about "sin". He can't. That's a tactic of the devil.

New American Standard Bible
"So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


Romans 5:17
For if by one man's offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.


For a believer to concern himself/herself with sin prevents them from living in the love and grace and glory of God. Christ took ALL our sin, sin which we might have viewed as past, present, and future...however how much of your sin was covered--in the future--when Christ died? ALL of it was in the future...and He covered it all. We have no sin.

This is not something we do ourselves.
This is what Christ's death, burial, and resurrection did for us.

We have done nothing but accept the Gift.
We were dead-dead...God chose the believer to believe, quickened the dead person so he could accept, and gave the person the faith (of Christ) to believe and then the Holy Spirit indwelt the believer, the blood of Christ having covered the believer in righteousness and mercy, and we walk in newness of life. LIFE. Life in Christ. Not our own life.

In photography we use filters to remove any colors we don't want in the photograph. Our sin is red like crimson (not black like the children's booklets misteach)... RED. What happens to our red sin when Christ's RED BLOOD covers it? GONE. You cannot see red through a red filter. When God Almighty looks at the believer...he does not see sin.

This is the freedom in Christ we are to enjoy. God does send us suffering nor guilt nor anything negative. Christ died so that we may be free to live in joy of the Lord and to worship Him. Someone dragging the idea of sin around just can't do that.

Peace.

 

[RINO 72]

1 John
8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

As Luther stated the Christian is simultaneously justified and sinner. The reality is its "both and." As in sinner under the law, saint under the gospel.

 

[drjean]

Those verses were not written to believers.

We all have sin before accepting Christ, not as those he was referring to--unbelievers who say they have no sin and thus don't need Christ.

Unless you are Jewish you have never been under the law. Gentiles were never judged by the law. Just plain sinners.

But in Christ (read verses in your own Bible folks, they're there too) we have no sin.

How can we be stronger than God? I'm not. I can't take back any sin; nor would I want to.

 

[twin1954]

The idea of sinless perfection in this body is heresy. I suspect that your relative is a Holiness Pentecostal. They took Wesleyan perfectionism and built a whole denomination around it.

Dr. Jean is correct but only in so far as the spiritual reality of our justification and sanctification exists. We are a people of 2 natures as exhibited in Rom. 7 and Gal. 5. We are indeed sinless in our spiritual man, 1John 3:9, and nothing but sin in our natural man. The natural man is still with us but no longer rules us. Twin, in his natural body of flesh is nothing but sin. Twin in his spiritual man, the one that is sanctified and cannot sin, is truly perfect before God. We will not be free from our sinful natural man until death or the change when Christ returns. The natural man makes everything I do mixed with sin and I cannot take him to the hospital of religious piety and heal him he must be taken to the cross and crucified with Christ. That is what the battle with ourselves Paul speaks of in Gal. 5 is all about.

Hope that helps.

 

[RINO 72]

Dr jean is the Lord's Prayer applicable to Christians?

 

[AmericanSamurai]

The idea of sinless perfection in this body is heresy. I suspect that your relative is a Holiness Pentecostal. They took Wesleyan perfectionism and built a whole denomination around it.

Dr. Jean is correct but only in so far as the spiritual reality of our justification and sanctification exists. We are a people of 2 natures as exhibited in Rom. 7 and Gal. 5. We are indeed sinless in our spiritual man, 1John 3:9, and nothing but sin in our natural man. The natural man is still with us but no longer rules us. Twin, in his natural body of flesh is nothing but sin. Twin in his spiritual man, the one that is sanctified and cannot sin, is truly perfect before God. We will not be free from our sinful natural man until death or the change when Christ returns. The natural man makes everything I do mixed with sin and I cannot take him to the hospital of religious piety and heal him he must be taken to the cross and crucified with Christ. That is what the battle with ourselves Paul speaks of in Gal. 5 is all about.

Hope that helps.

Yes. You have about the same explanation as how Pastor Jesse explained Sin to us. We are very much still sinners, albeit no longer slaves to sin and no longer under condemnation because of our imputed righteousness in Christ, but very much still the two natures are still in us.

I think that telling a Christian he is no longer a sinner because he is in Christ is not accurate.

 

[AmericanSamurai]

Let's remember what sin is. Being free from sin does not mean just avoiding doing evil acts, but it also means doing good perfectly. Those two things done perfectly is what it means to be sinless, and a Christian is lying if they say they meet this standard, no one has, but Christ.

 

[shawnavery]

Let's remember what sin is. Being free from sin does not mean just avoiding doing evil acts, but it also means doing good perfectly. Those two things done perfectly is what it means to be sinless, and a Christian is lying if they say they meet this standard, no one has, but Christ.

Amen

John 3:16