Goodbye little Indi

civilwarbuff

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Handmaid for Jesus

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Her death may lead to her father's salvation. God works in mysterious ways.
Amen! :amen: If he is or gets saved, he will see her again in the resurrection. So there is hope.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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May her death mean something to those in the UK and the wider world.
She had severe brain damage, and the severest from of mitochondrial disease. Nothing was going to give her brain back. She got to die in a hospice. With pain medicine, if she needed them. My guess, is she was to far gone to need pain meds. I do wish people put this much energy with babies, kids, teens and young adults, that need a better life and education.
 
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civilwarbuff

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People, don't understand, this baby was to weak to go home.
She wasn't going home with the parents; she was going to be taken to Italy/Vatican who were willing to meet her medical needs. Besides, what gives a judge the right to commit an innocent person to death? The parents wanted as much time with their daughter as possible. Can you blame them?
I do wish people put this much energy with babies, kids, teens and young adults, that need a better life and education.
Maybe this would have been a really good place to start.
 
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IceJad

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May her death mean something to those in the UK and the wider world.

What the ...? I can't understand? Why does the court gets to decide if a child gets taken off life support? Can even deny offers to extend a child's life by others.

Even if the child will never recover every second that the parents gets to prolong it is irreplaceable.

Monsters! I hope there is a special place in the lake of fire for all the judges.
 
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IceJad

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A more balanced source: Indi Gregory, sick baby at center of legal battle in Britain, dies

Doctors argued that Indi had no awareness of her surroundings and was suffering and should be allowed to die peacefully.​

Here's a link on the disease: Mitochondrial Disease | Children's Hospital of Philadelphia

Not a call doctors can make nor can the courts! When my grand mother fell and went into a coma the doctors treating told my dad she is braindead. They GAVE my dad the option to keep her alive or send her of. My dad made a heart breaking decision a son has to EVER MAKE! BUT the choice was HIS to make. Not mine, not my mom, not anyone else!
 
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Nithavela

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What the ...? I can't understand? Why does the court gets to decide if a child gets taken off life support? Can even deny offers to extend a child's life by others.

Even if the child will never recover every second that the parents gets to prolong it is irreplaceable.

Monsters! I hope there is a special place in the lake of fire for all the judges.
I'm sure they'll let you shove at least one of them in as a reward for your display of righteous indignation.
 
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IceJad

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I'm sure they'll let you shove at least one of them in as a reward for your display of righteous indignation.
Great response. Surely getting angry about uncaring professionals is righteous indignation. Sorry if my anger towards people that is not you offends you somehow.

Maybe if the UK courts get their collective heads out from whatever hole their have shoved them in, I'll be more diplomatic. This is not the first of such case in UK if you're in the dark.

Maybe when Europe as a whole reinstate death penalty for murderers instead of life sentence and enforce protection for children's lives I'll be less likely to criticized your collective policies and courts.
 
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vespasia

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Having read the court of protections transcripts, this was a little girl who had the most catastrophic form of mito disease. She was being subjected to repeated aggressive resus every day in PICU because her parents could not and would not let her die. In her case PICU was no longer treatment to preserve life but had slipped into prolonging her dying. Some parents have faith to let their child die in this world and to be with God. In the UK the rights of a child to protection from harm top the wants and desires of parents. The majority of the time this works well but on rare occasions drs and parents are unable to agree and thus the court of protection is asked to judge on the evidence of both sides with an independent appointed person acting on behalf of the child. I contributed to the ethical framework for short lives. Where possible a child is provided hospice care at home. This is not always possible as some will need the most skilled palliative nursing possible. Hospice at home is NOT normally the case for a dying child in PICU and the advanced nursing and medical care such a child needs can only be provided at a children’s hospice or hospital. There are far worse options than dying. Far far worse.
 
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Great response. Surely getting angry about uncaring professionals is righteous indignation. Sorry if my anger towards people that is not you offends you somehow.

Maybe if the UK courts get their collective heads out from whatever hole their have shoved them in, I'll be more diplomatic. This is not the first of such case in UK if you're in the dark.

Maybe when Europe as a whole reinstate death penalty for murderers instead of life sentence and enforce protection for children's lives I'll be less likely to criticized your collective policies and courts.
I'll take your criticism as a compliment.
 
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vespasia

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As an amendment the legal group concerned in this particular case and others have a notorious reputation for leaping on cases that can maximise publicity for themselves without concern or compassion for desperate families. No one would choose to be the parent having to face the reality of a child dying before they. There are grown up and reputable christian legal firms within the UKs legal 500 who offer their expertise and time pro bono. The notorious group are not amongst this number and are viewed as the ‘better call Saul’ option. Sadly this distracts from the serious medical ethical debates of theologians, faith leaders, medical schools and colleges , ethicists and parents who are always working towards the best interests of the children with serious and life limiting conditions.
 
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dogs4thewin

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If the government was paying for her transport and they felt it was of little use they have that right. At a certain point keeping people alive is frankly selfish on the family's part. Now, if the family was going to pay for transport then you MIGHT could make the argument it was none of the government's concern, but at a certain point resources do have to be considered as to how likely it is treatment will work as opposed to cost (if someone else is paying for it. Now, if the family were willing ( and I do not know if they were or not but if they were willing to pay the cost of transport then that would have been one thing, but the doctors'/government were paying for the transport and they felt that either the treatment would be unlikely to work anyway and/or that the baby was too weak to make the trip then it is really their right to say you know what our resources would be better spent on other people. Do not get me wrong I am NOT saying that her death is not sad; only that sometimes resources have to be considered and compared to the odds something will actually work ( especially if you are not paying for it. Also, as I said earlier when people are very ill like that frankly keeping them alive because the family is not willing to let them go is selfish.
 
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vespasia

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Alas it was never as simplistic as cost. The NHS has the majority of its funding paid for by National Insurance deducted at source direct from wages and income. This is very different to many other countries funding for health systems. At its inception it was provided to meet need regardless of income. Advances in medicine have given rise to new ethical debates around The age old question of where does treatment to preserve a life become burdensome upon the dying. It is a question that remains contested as it should do. The poor little mite was unstable and kept arresting within an exemplary environment of a fully equipped paediatric intensive care unit. This was with full access to PICU doctors and PICU specialist children’s nurses. Any move even to the hospice would have required a mobile ICU NTS within an ambulance. Normally these are used to collect and move critically ill children from a secondary hospital to a children’s specialist hospitals capable of providing PICU. Moving anyone who is critically ill and unstable even within a hospital can cause death. It says a great deal of the medical care provided that Indi even made it to the hospice. Please note the PICU NTS ambulance transfer was paid for by the NHS. It is not possible for parents to travel in an NTS ambulance as there is no room for anyone beyond the child, PICU doctors and nurses plus all the PICU equipment and backup. The court of protection refused to allow her to be moved very far as this would have caused a rapid and terminal decline that would have caused her greater pain and distress without her parents being present to cuddle her as she took her last breathe. I could cheerfully slam TV dramas that make it look easy to save every life. It gives desperate parents an unrealistic expectation of what is possible within the soul tearing and heart rending reality of looking after critically ill children.
 
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She wasn't going home with the parents; she was going to be taken to Italy/Vatican who were willing to meet her medical needs. Besides, what gives a judge the right to commit an innocent person to death? The parents wanted as much time with their daughter as possible. Can you blame them?
The condition was to advanced. There was no repairing the body or the brain. She was basically dead, waiting to be taken of the life machine. When the body is that bad, they wont live through such a trip. The parents are in denial. After the Italy plan was rejected, then they asked to bring their daughter home. I have a feeling, as time goes on. They will realize, that they were taking pictures of a baby, that was all ready gone.
 
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