Good reason to be an atheist?(moved from Christian Appologetics)

[Isambard]

The Bible teaches love, patience, and seeking the welfare of others even when it might harm the Christian. In contrast, the atheists' presuppositions must be constantly changing and subjective, and do not demand love, patience, and the welfare of others. Instead, since the great majority of atheists are evolutionists, their morality, like evolution, is the product of purely natural and random processes that become self-serving.

Basically, the atheist cannot claim any moral absolutes at all. To an atheist, ethics must be variable and evolving. This could be good or bad, but with human nature being what it is, I'll opt for the moral absolutes -- based on God's word -- and not on the subjective and changing morals that atheism offers.

Ahem...

YouTube - Atheists are immoral -- debunked

 

[ACougar]

The feather of truth. A very powerful and meaningful myth.

Actually it's that all souls are weighed by the feather of Ma'at by Anubis. Duh everyone knows that silly

 

[Eudaimonist]

At the risk of labeling the atheist as self-centered, it does not serve the best interests of an atheist to murder and steal since it would not take long before he was imprisoned and/or killed for his actions.

I'll agree that one shouldn't steal or murder because it is not in one's best interests to do so, however, I think that one's best interests run far deeper than avoiding external punishments from society. The worst consequences of such parasitic deeds are internal to oneself and pertain to who and what one is.

To steal or destroy (rather than to create) changes who you are inside. You could think of it as a natural karma -- cause and effect. Such acts cut you off from needed psychological values, such as self-respect. You will know that you did not earn whatever it was you took, but took them from someone who did.

The next casualty is likely to be your self-awareness. You will have to try to kill any sort of awareness of who you are in order to protect yourself from... yourself. By refusing to fully accept who you are, you will have plucked your inner eyes out, and will then find it extremely difficult to improve yourself inside. Your psyche will be conflicted, blinded, and tormented. You will be stuck, and perhaps end up spiralling towards your self-destruction.

There is a "punishment" of a sort that results from all of this, and that is that one will live a stunted life. One will never have been able to blossom as the individual one was, and will have wasted one's life. It is a very sad thing.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[JGG]

Ummmm...what?

I'm not really sure how I can be more clear without changing the intent of my question. Just remember that I tried to use the word "motivated." That being said, why would I want to believe in God?

I don't believe in atheism. I can't believe in atheism. I simply don't believe in God/a god/gods. This happens to make me an atheist.

You are playing the definition game. They are the same thing.[/QUOTE]

Yes, and no. Atheism is not believing in God/a god/gods. However, I didn't find myself believing in atheism, I simply ceased believing in theism. I never said "hey, I believe in atheism" I've only said "hey, I don't believing in God/a god/gods." Atheism does not require belief as it is, in short, a lack of belief in God/a god/gods.

All that being said, allow me to ask again my earlier question which you declined to answer: How does an atheist act?

 

[Super_Rational]

Thanks for taking time to give the list.

Too many reasons is sort of equivalent to no reason. If you ask me why am I a Christian, I would only give you one or two reasons. Until you can do the same to atheism, you do not, in fact, have a strong reason.

Haha I should have expected this. You can rationalize it any way you want, but remember, you're just making excuses. The truth is, I have more than one or two reasons why I think a belief in god is irrational, & if you don't, then that's quite sad. Had I listed only a few reasons, I expect you would have said the opposite. How is "too many" = zero? This only works in your own fantasy world.

I've seen you twist mine & everyone's else's answers around for many pages of comments. And you seem to have trouble understanding even the most basic concepts, even when repeated over & over. So what gives? I think you care more about rationalizing & giving excuses than you care about knowing if something is true or not. You've shown this in earlier posts quite clearly. When you can't wrap your mind around something (even with lots of help), you always opt for the warm fuzzies. We get it.

 

[Super_Rational]

Nevertheless, some Christians raise the question, "What is to prevent an atheist from murdering and stealing? After all, they have no fear of God and no absolute moral code."

It sure sounds like you are saying christians don't murder, steal, etc. b/c they are afraid of god & punishment in the afterlife.

I bet that if most christians stopped believing, things would continue as normal b/c people understand they can't act like idiots if they want to integrate into society. Everyone knows this, most just think it's god telling them to be good.

Btw, someone who is good b/c they know it's the right thing to do is a much better person than someone who is good b/c they are expecting a reward or afraid of punishment...in my opinion, that is. But I would hope you would agree.

 

[2 King]

It sure sounds like you are saying christians don't murder, steal, etc. b/c they are afraid of god & punishment in the afterlife.

I bet that if most christians stopped believing, things would continue as normal b/c people understand they can't act like idiots if they want to integrate into society. Everyone knows this, most just think it's god telling them to be good.

Btw, someone who is good b/c they know it's the right thing to do is a much better person than someone who is good b/c they are expecting a reward or afraid of punishment...in my opinion, that is. But I would hope you would agree.

Makes sense. I agree. Except for the fact that, just because you go to church, read your Bible, etc. Dosen't make you a Christian. I believe that term has been tossed around so much that it's hardly possible now for society to recognize Christians. Rather more of Backsliders who do it daily. In truth and honesty, a Christian is also someone who obeys God, and since Christians Obey God, they don't steal, kill and destroy.

 

[Rasta]

Makes sense. I agree. Except for the fact that, just because you go to church, read your Bible, etc. Dosen't make you a Christian. I believe that term has been tossed around so much that it's hardly possible now for society to recognize Christians. Rather more of Backsliders who do it daily. In truth and honesty, a Christian is also someone who obeys God, and since Christians Obey God, they don't steal, kill and destroy.

"No true Scotsman" fallacy. Nothing prevents anyone from stealing and killing.

 

[Super_Rational]

Makes sense. I agree. Except for the fact that, just because you go to church, read your Bible, etc. Dosen't make you a Christian. I believe that term has been tossed around so much that it's hardly possible now for society to recognize Christians. Rather more of Backsliders who do it daily. In truth and honesty, a Christian is also someone who obeys God, and since Christians Obey God, they don't steal, kill and destroy.

Maybe faith without works is dead, but that doesn't matter. And church has nothing to do with it. If someone believes they are a christian, and in my opinion, has religious beliefs that resemble mainstream christianity (of any flavor), then they are a christian. For all practical purposes, religions are characterized by beliefs. If you are asked your religion for a survey, your actions will not be factored in. Actions are often considered when a christian doesn't want to acknowledge that christian people in general are just as capable of being bad people, or when they want to elevate themselves above people who do bad things.

 

[2 King]

Maybe faith without works is dead, but that doesn't matter. And church has nothing to do with it. If someone believes they are a christian, and in my opinion, has religious beliefs that resemble mainstream christianity (of any flavor), then they are a christian. For all practical purposes, religions are characterized by beliefs. If you are asked your religion for a survey, your actions will not be factored in. Actions are often considered when a christian doesn't want to acknowledge that christian people in general are just as capable of being bad people, or when they want to elevate themselves above people who do bad things.

Using that mind-set, then of course Christians commit murders, kill, steal, rape, etc.

Reminds me of someones signature on here: Welcome to CF, where everyone is a Christians if they say so.

 

[Rasta]

Using that mind-set, then of course Christians commit murders, kill, steal, rape, etc.

Reminds me of someones signature on here: Welcome to CF, where everyone is a Christians if they say so.

Perhaps it is time to explain how someone could believe they are Christian, when in reality their belief is false.

 

[2 King]

Perhaps it is time to explain how someone could believe they are Christian, when in reality their belief is false.

I cannot accept that.

 

[Super_Rational]

Using that mind-set, then of course Christians commit murders, kill, steal, rape, etc.

And many do.

Even if they are "backsliders," as you said earlier, they're still backsliding christians, am I right? What else would they be? And since is someone who obeys god (as you also said), what percentage of the time would someone have to obey god to still be a christian? Greater than 95%? And since most christians believe that only jesus was perfect, does that mean there are no christians? Just backsliders? Common sense says that you, & almost no one, believes that.

 

[Rasta]

I cannot accept that.

Maybe explain why this was typed by you: "Makes sense. I agree. Except for the fact that, just because you go to church, read your Bible, etc. Dosen't make you a Christian."

 

[2 King]

Maybe explain why this was typed by you: "Makes sense. I agree. Except for the fact that, just because you go to church, read your Bible, etc. Dosen't make you a Christian."

because I disagreed with an atheist's idea/synopsis of Christianity.

 

[Rasta]

because I disagreed with an atheist's idea/synopsis of Christianity.

So everyone who believes they are a Christian, is a Christian right?

 

[ACougar]

It's the old Christian vs True Christan game. If a Christian appears to bring disrepute on Christianity, then they can't be true Christians. True Chritians protest abortion but they don't bomb abortion clinics. To be fair the arguement is used by almost all religions. True Muslims can't be terrorists, ect...

So everyone who believes they are a Christian, is a Christian right?

 

[Rasta]

It's the old Christian vs True Christan game. If a Christian appears to bring disrepute on Christianity, then they can't be true Christians. True Chritians protest abortion but they don't bomb abortion clinics. To be fair the arguement is used by almost all religions. True Muslims can't be terrorists, ect...

Yes. It is a tapdance done to avoid dealing with reality. If they admit that Christians lie, steal, cheat, and kill just as much as everybody else, they are forced to deal with their percieved sense of superiority, which of course blemishes thoes authoritative claims.

 

[2 King]

Which leads me to ask, what do Atheists and Agnostics benefit when they die? where do they go?

 

[Rasta]

Which leads me to ask, what do Atheists and Agnostics benefit when they die? where do they go?

I don't think my belief (or yours) changes reality in the slightest way, other than our imperfect perceptions.