Good 'OL LCMS

[RadMan]

October 3, 2007

"Congregation Builds New Preschool for Outreach"

Redeemer Lutheran Church of Saint Clair Shores MI dedicated a new
half-million dollar expansion to its preschool and kindergarten on Sunday,
September 23, 2007.

Photographs of the congregation were taken after the early and the late
services can be viewed at http://www.concordtx.org/msnews/Red_SCS.htm

Enrollment rose from 95 to 120 after the project, which began in April, and
was completed on September 10, 2007.

Redeemer withdrew from the LCMS in 2004 after the Council of District
Presidents wrote to the congregation that District Presidents do not have to
follow proper channels in congregational constitutions which have already
been approved by the District.

After the congregation withdrew, District President Hoesman immediately
removed Pastor Cascione from the Synodical roster. Fellowship in the LCMS
is based CCM rulings.

A number of LCMS congregations have refused to serve Communion to members of
Redeemer who visit their congregations.

 

[LilLamb219]

And your point?

 

[RadMan]

No point. Just an interesting tidbit of info.

Just a side note to the unfair ousting of Rev Cascione from the LCMS and the how the COP makes their own rules which are unconstitutional.

 

[Zecryphon]

No point. Just an interesting tidbit of info.

Just a side note to the unfair ousting of Rev Cascione from the LCMS and the how the COP makes their own rules which are unconstitutional.

It's at times like this, for myself anyway, that ignorance is truly bliss. I can't imagine the amount of reading I'd have to do just to understand what I just read.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I understand what you're getting at. How awful, yet how good of that church to stand its ground. I know where this church is...I pass by it many times. I believe they still have their LCMS cross on their sign, but it's been awhile so maybe they don't anymore.

 

[porterross]

Well, that's one side of the story.

 

[RadMan]

Well, that's one side of the story.

What's the other side?

In some ways I'm not going to let this affect me anymore since I don't want to belong to LCMS anymore. In the interim I'll go to a different LCMS church for a while since there isn't a WELS church within 100 miles. But I'm doing it under duress and only because the congregation is conservative/confessional. Otherwise I would be gone in a flash.

 

[LutherNut]

Redeemer withdrew from the LCMS in 2004 after the Council of District Presidents wrote to the congregation that District Presidents do not have to follow proper channels in congregational constitutions which have already been approved by the District.

It would be nice to see what the letter actually said rather than Cascione's ultra-radical slant on it.

After the congregation withdrew, District President Hoesman immediately removed Pastor Cascione from the Synodical roster. Fellowship in the LCMS is based CCM rulings.

Fellowship in the LCMS is based on the Constitution and by-laws which are based upon Scripture. Cascione was removed because he was serving a congregation that was no longer in communion with the synod.

A number of LCMS congregations have refused to serve Communion to members of Redeemer who visit their congregations.

That's called "close communion", something that the ultra-radicals claim to uphold, but then criticize the LCMS when they actually DO uphold it?

 

[porterross]

What's the other side?

In some ways I'm not going to let this affect me anymore since I don't want to belong to LCMS anymore. In the interim I'll go to a different LCMS church for a while since there isn't a WELS church within 100 miles. But I'm doing it under duress and only because the congregation is conservative/confessional. Otherwise I would be gone in a flash.

I have no idea, but as it's not being offered here, nor is the whole story, so it's unfair to condemn anyone.

 

[RadMan]

Ya know it's kind of odd that I research out info and all I hear is negative opinions and never any facts. Just negative opinions based on hearsay. How 'bout some facts for back up.

You guys defend LCMS like it's a god. All the inequities that has gone on in it for many years and you just turn a deaf ear and ignore it like it will go away. How much worse is it going to get before you recognize the rot from within. Or are you just going to role over and play dead.

LCMS talks out of both sides of their month. They say one think on their LCMS site and practice a far different thing in reality.

 

[LutherNut]

Ya know it's kind of odd that I research out info and all I hear is negative opinions and never any facts. Just negative opinions based on hearsay. How 'bout some facts for back up.

How 'bout you practice what you preach? How 'bout giving both sides of the equation instead of the "hearsay" from the radical camp. I'm open to hearing both sides and making up my own mind, but I can't do that when all I hear is the negativity from folks like Cascione and Otten, both of whom trash the 8th commandment repeatedly.

 

[Studeclunker]

Yes, Rad, I see where you are coming from. The whole situation reminds me of a merger some twenty or so years ago. There was a congregation who had two un-ordained women who had attended seminary and called them to pastorate when they graduated. These women had been told by the denomination's leaders they would never be allowed to be ordained as they were homosexual. Well now the whole denomination is embracing this practice and sliding down that old slippery slope. People were saying exactly the same as the above responses and calling any objectors 'reactionairies'.

As to the communion issue and the removal of the pastor from the LCMS roster? What else did they expect? Redeemer withdrew from the Synod, of course these things would occur.

 

[RadMan]

How 'bout you practice what you preach? How 'bout giving both sides of the equation instead of the "hearsay" from the radical camp. I'm open to hearing both sides and making up my own mind, but I can't do that when all I hear is the negativity from folks like Cascione and Otten, both of whom trash the 8th commandment repeatedly.

Over the years I have posted 100's of excerpts from the conventions and articles form reputable sites and not just Cascione and Otten and I get no constructive comments. Just opinions. Why should I repeat myself. Go find the info yourselves. I did. I would think you guys would get tired of repeating hearsay. Research it out yourselves. For instance people say Otten is antisemitic yet no one has proven otherwise. Many months ago I posted many of his articles and all of a sudden it got quiet on the forum because no one could find anything in his writings that were antisemitic.

As I said. Do your own research and find out what you have been missing.

 

[RadMan]

Yes, Rad, I see where you are coming from. The whole situation reminds me of a merger some twenty or so years ago. There was a congregation who had two un-ordained women who had attended seminary and called them to pastorate when they graduated. These women had been told by the denomination's leaders they would never be allowed to be ordained as they were homosexual. Well now the whole denomination is embracing this practice and sliding down that old slippery slope. People were saying exactly the same as the above responses and calling any objectors 'reactionairies'.

As to the communion issue and the removal of the pastor from the LCMS roster? What else did they expect? Redeemer withdrew from the Synod, of course these things would occur.

In ten years if this forum exists well be seeing post from LCMS people about what are they going to do because they will just be another arm of ELCA. Lutherans will be united then.

 

[filosofer]

In ten years if this forum exists well be seeing post from LCMS people about what are they going to do because they will just be another arm of ELCA. Lutherans will be united then.

[FONT= "Book Antiqua"]
Some of us wont be united.

In Christ's love,
filo
[/font]

 

[porterross]

So it's either radically conservative or liberal from your POV?

The LCMS isn't perfect, but there's far more right with it than there is wrong.

 

[RadMan]

September 26, 2007

"New LCMS Board of Directors Won't Apologize to Slandered Members"


The LCMS Board of Directors refuses to apologize to fellow Board members who
were slandered at the 2007 LCMS Convention.

The BOD, under the leadership of newly elected Chairman Rev. Dr. Donald K.
Muchow, voted down a resolution to defend it's members who were slandered at
the LCMS Convention before the election was held for their office.

The following are the minutes of the Board meeting that record the Board's
action.

PRE-APPROVED MINUTES

BOARD OF DIRECTORS
THE LUTHERAN CHURCH-MISSOURI SYNOD

September 8-10, 2007
Crowne Plaza Airport Hotel
St. Louis, Missouri

D. Action Proposed by Member of the Board

A member of the board presented the following proposed action for
consideration: "Rationale: 'Whatever is done with the tongue against a
neighbor.is clearly forbidden by God..therefore, we should note that nobody
has the right to judge or reprove his neighbor publicly, even if he has seen
a sin committed, unless he has been authorized to judge and reprove..No one
shall harm his neighbor, whether friend or foe, with his tongue. A person
should use his tongue to speak good of everyone, to cover his neighbor's
sins and infirmities, to overlook them, and to cloak and veil them with his
own honor. Our chief reason for doing so should be the one which Christ
indicates in the Gospel, and in which He means to embrace all Commandments
concerning our neighbor, "Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so
to them."' (Large Catechism).

WHEREAS, The reputations of those who participated in legal action as a
matter of duty and conscience were harmed by false accusations of sinful
behavior (seeking legal redress). (The Apology speaks to this: 'Public
redress through a judge is not forbidden but expressly commanded and is a
work of God' [Romans 12:1ff].); and

WHEREAS, The reelection of David Hawk and Elizabeth Skinner were directly
(negatively) impacted by being identified as interveners to a lawsuit; and

WHEREAS, President Kieschnick misapplied the words of the Commission on
Constitutional Matters when he stated, 'A lawsuit is not a legitimate avenue
of dissent' and then threatened disciplinary action against these same
individuals by saying, 'The Constitution and Bylaws of the Synod provide
disciplinary measures against those who violate the Constitution and Bylaws
of the Synod"; and

WHEREAS, (Individual) members of the Board of Directors must be allowed to
freely exercise their fiduciary duty by the use of proper civil judges when
necessary (as a matter of conscience and duty) without fear of reprisal; and


WHEREAS, Synod Second Vice-President Paul Maier labeled those who have
'.gone to law.' as sinners and gave no opportunity for discussion or reply
(this was done during a Bible study during the convention in Houston); and

WHEREAS, The writer of this resolution was an intervener to the lawsuit
referenced at the Synod convention in Houston, and so had a cloud cast on
his character and ethics, and especially his faithfulness to God's Call; and


WHEREAS, The writer of this resolution believes that the above actions
constitute slander as defined by Scripture and take away reputations that
are in need of restoration; therefore be it

Resolved, That the Board of Directors issue a public statement (to be
published on the Synod's Website, E-News, The Lutheran Witness, and the
Reporter that addresses the impropriety of the statements that publicly
slandered and defamed faithful members of the Synod trying to follow their
conscience and act in a God-pleasing manner; and be it further

Resolved, That the Board of Directors (in a spirit of collegiality) through
its chairman send a letter to those whose reputations were slandered,
stating that the board commends them for their past service and in no way
finds their past actions sinful; and be it finally

Resolved, That the Board of Directors, by this resolution, reinforce its
leadership role demonstrating Christian love in support of one another at
all times.even in times of genuine disagreement."

As discussion of the proposed resolution began, a motion was introduced and
carried to move into executive session.


11X. Executive Session III


After a motion to move out of executive session was introduced and carried,
the proposed resolution was seconded. A motion to call the question was
introduced and carried. A motion "to postpone action until tomorrow morning"
was introduced but failed. When the vote on the resolution was taken, it was
not adopted.

 

[RadMan]

So it's either radically conservative or liberal from your POV?

No it's unethical practices and double talk.

 

[DaRev]

You know, I think that this thread comes dangerously close to violating rule 1.8 of the forum rules.

 

[RadMan]

I can critique the LCMS all I want since I still belong to it.

Instead of defending your precious LCMS you just resort to quoting forum rules and don't defend it with facts.